I think we just need to agree that we are on different wave lengths and there is little hope that they will ever cross. And on the rare times they have, I have questioned myself.

Well, I think we both agree that these girls are jerks for being so closed minded. We merely differ on when and how we prefer they convey that fact.

Look at it this way:

My BFF comes over to my home, with another person that I don't particularly care for in tow. BFF may or may not know my feelings, but that is immaterial. I welcome them BOTH in, I serve them both refreshments, I include BOTH of them in the conversation. Other Person has no clue that I do not particularly care for him/her. I am treating Other Person the way my grandmother taught me to treat people. Everyone is a GUEST in your home, and you behave accordingly. I don't put Other Person outside with the dogs and put BFF in the living room, we all sit in the kitchen or on the back patio and have a nice visit.

Other Person leaves with a good impression of my hospitality and hopefully me (depends on how the dogs behave, truthfully. They can be difficult with people at times). I may privately inform BFF never to do that again, but while it's happening, I'm on my best behavior.

The end.

Not touching the HQ/alum piece of this situation. Sticking to my basic point: good manners are good manners.

It comes down to which is worse: knowing you have zero interest in a PNM and making her talk to you and try to impress you for twenty minutes, or knowing you have zero interest in a PNM and just ignoring her altogether?

Whatever happened to being gracious? Has that gone completely out the window?

And I'm NOT clutching pearls. I'm simply pointing out that that behavior is bad manners. Period.

ETA: I quit.

I am tired and cranky so I am going out on a limb that may very well break beneath me. I am in complete agreement with AZTheta. I also want to address a few other posts.

The local alumnae are VERY strong, their pockets are VERY deep and they would rather die over this tradition than
give it up. UT Panhellenic even passed a rule that basically said a PNMs feet must be on the floor at all times to keep this from happening. Here is the news flash. the chapter does not care, they pay the fine and they move on With that said, they also don't care that they are highly disliked in the UT Greek Community. People make fun of them. People mock them. (Think girls jumping up and down on Halloween because they are going as ABCs) IMO it is the most embarrassing part of UT recruitment. This chapter passes up so many quality girls over this agenda. Their membership selection is almost incestuous from the outside looking in. If Texas Monthly would garner the balls to write another article on UT recruitment the painted picture would look much different. This chapter would go down as entitled women, nice cars, Amex black in their Birkins, below average on the intelligence scale, who are doing their best to get their MRS degrees while keeping daddy wrapped around their Yurman embellished fingers. <rant over>

And yet the shallow end of the pool is vast enough that they can maintain their numbers year over year. I'd love to see their RFM numbers and see what their cut percentages are.

Why? It really isn't anyone's business but theirs, just as your chapter's isn't anyone's business. We already had this discussion about release numbers and who knows, and why it isn't discussed.

If I didn't know better, I'd think you were being mean with that "shallow end" comment.

I'm sticking to my point: It's about being gracious, and having good manners. Practicing what we preach to the PNMs. That's all. We ALL need to walk the walk, not just talk the talk. And not cannibalize one another in the process.

If this is true (and I have no reason to believe otherwise), then they are digging their own grave. The population of the US is changing and will continue to change. This may have worked for them for the past 50 or more years but it won't work for the next 50. They will eventually become a niche group by not being inclusive. In some ways, from what you and others have said, they already are a niche group. I doubt they are the strongest recruiting chapter at UT and they probably don't care. I do agree with AZTheta though--manners never go out of style.

I don't know what's fact and what's fiction. To be like "hey, we're gonna have a dance party rather than get to know the PNM's because we already have our list" doesn't seem egregious to me, if all PNM's are treated the same and don't know who is "in" or who is "out" while visiting the party.

It's the stuff about glitter and piggyback rides that sounds bad...obvious signs that some PNM's are wanted and others aren't is rude.

ok, I'm coming out of lurking. I joined recently because my son is a junior in high school, and wants to go out of state. I know very little about the rush process for men at the two schools we/he are considering.

Also, selfishly, my daughter's favorite camp counselor is a PNM right now, and I was hoping for a glance at her story. She's been wonderfully kind to my daughter.

My daughter,my baby girl. She is still in elementary school. She is fantastic and 100% different than her mom. She is athletic, not girly. She plays sports and I was in chorus.

Dance Party is obnoxious, my own house. I worry about my tomboy daughter. But then I tell ,myself - maybe it's not for her. Maybe she even goes to a non-greek school. I want what's best for her, even if it's not my house.

All that being said - how dare you - "pineapple". Spreading a vicious stereotype about your own fellow alumna? How about Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison? How about the alum on the 14th Court of Appeals? How about me - second career after staying home with my kids and being the wife/mom and needing more? I am now the Director of Development at non-profit - and breaking records. I know I'm not of "below" average intelligence. I own no David Yurman jewrlry.

In fact, having a junior in high school and beginning the college process, I can assure you - NONE OF THE freshman are of below average intelligence. Look it up.

Shame on you - shame.

These girls are in college, hopefully will grow. You - are presumable an adult. You are no -Texas Ex.

As an after point - I don't have an amex black card or a birken bag.
I drive an older Suburban, my dear husband was in a great fraternity at UT, but that's not why I married him.

He's a lawyer, and we do well. Not over the top by any means.

I think you missed part of 33's post. All of the PNMs are NOT treated equally during a party, and that is the egregious part.

The girls that have already been "chosen" are taken into another room to be rushed. The girls in the "dance party" room are the ones that they are not interested in even getting to know. Plenty of PNMs know about this. Can you imagine the pain of being in the dance party room?

You missed the word "allegedly" in what you quoted. Then proceeded to present hearsay as fact.

This is what I mean by cannibalizing one another.

I was not speaking about you. I was speaking about the current membership in the house. Period. And you don't know me, you don't anything about me. The fact remains that YOUR house is very disliked on this campus. They break the rules and laugh in Panhellenic's face about it. They are beyond rude to the PNMs who have devoted their time to a process that should be inclusive. You might not like what I have to say, but have you considered volunteering your time and getting involved and making the change you would like to see in YOUR house? And maybe below average intelligence was not the right term. For that I apologize. It would have been better to state the fact that "continually ranks in the lower half of the UT Panhellenic Sorority GPAs". That is nothing but fact. But I agree you can't equate GPA with intelligence but it is clear the value toward excellence in grade achievement is not there.

And for reference my screen name is not Pineapple. It is Pinapple. It is a combination of the word Pin (as in a sorority pin) and apple. A pineapple is a fruit.

If you are sincere in your apology, I accept. I just will always be impressed by any high school student who currently get accepted into our alma mater. To imply that these kids are anything other than achievers is disingenuous

As for the rest of it, every house has it's issues. I already expressed that I'm nervous my own daughter would be cut - I think that's admitting enough. I had a wonderful experience, that lead me to my husband. I would not change a thing.

All I'm saying is getting into the University of Texas, in 2014, is such an amazing accomplishment. We all bleed burnt orange. I would hope - not only as a Texas Ex. but as a Greek - you could be a bit more kind to these 18/19 year olds. Name calling is just not necessary,

ok. sorry about the name. I was trying to get 2 kids in bed - and quiz an 11th grader on a quiz. I apologize, Plus, I'm not a very competent computer user.

I probably should have waited to reply.

Don't beat up on Pinapple for quoting known facts.
I don't condone what my sorority does there. I just haven't been able to stop it ...
YET.

Thanks ChioLu :) I know what you are talking about and did not hear a word about it this year, does not mean it did not happen.

Mea culpa. That is indeed egregiously rude.

Bids are handed out in T-5 hours.....:D

I can confirm it did happen this year to my daughter. It makes me sick to my stomach in disgust. As the former president of the IFC at another school, we could have done a lot to disenfranchise the group who displayed this type of rude and boorish behavior that reflects poorly on the Greek system as a whole. I'll never look on this group again with anything but contempt.

Quota is 65

Hopefully your daughter didn't go forward with this house if this is how you feel. Good Luck to your daughter today.

Of course not. She dropped them like a hot rock.

Thanks for the best wishes. She is very happy and excited about all who were on her pref list

Good for her.

Good luck on her bid day!

Let us know where she lands

To expand on Quota...52 freshman 13 upperclassman for 65

I am really shocked at how low quota is at a flagship school of the size of UT.

Quota has gone down at UT without expansion. Last year it was 70 (56+14).

Is Sigma Delta Tau participating in formal recruitment this year? Perhaps that is the reason for the decrease? If a chapter that didn't use to formal recruit begins, it's bound to have the same effect as a colonization, no?

The number of PACE girls could have affected it as well. Of course that is one thing we will not know. According to another site Sigma Delta Tau did participate.

I just got back from UT recruitment. SDT did fully participate, but they did last year as well. If everyone takes full quota, then 910 placements against 1,268 signups (from this site) and a 72% placement rate.

Not a great rate. Of course, it includes PNMs who withdrew of their own accord for their own reasons.

IMO the rate is so low because of drop out. For many girls once the big six is off their schedules, they quit. Which is a huge shame because there are some amazingly strong chapters at UT outside the Big Six, I might even go out on a limb and say even stronger chapters. But old traditions die hard and if it is better to be out of letters in order to satisfy what they think so pecking order, then so be it.

How many were registered? Doesn't UT have a HUGE undergraduate student body?

Oh my. Haven't posted in forever, but I see that things at Texas have become more "interesting" than ever.

I lived in Dallas from the mid 80-s to 2003, and during that time I volunteered as Rec Chairman for one of the suburban Panhellenics. The theatrics that went on were like no where else. Alabama and Ole Miss? Pshaw. Child's play. Good manners and politeness rule the day, as they do at almost every "southern" school, and at most of the other Texas schools as well.

The problem at Texas is that some of the "top" houses have hundreds of legacies and cannot take every one of them. Not even a legacy to the UT chapter has an easy time of it. And no house wants a class of only legacies. Many girls whose Mothers and Grandmothers are determined that their baby will be a - - - like them will send them to a respectable out of state school where they may have an easier path pledging the house and then transferring to UT after their first year and they've already been initiated.

But these shenanigans you all are speaking of are rude and inexcusable. And they will come back to haunt these houses. There will be one girl here or there who slips through and becomes a huge embarrassment, it will cause gossip (gasp!) in her hometown and on campus and soon girls will cut them. If only the PNM's would get together if they found themselves in the "wrong room" and just get up and do a walkout right then and there. Shades of Animal House anyone?

Big School
 

50,000+ total students, something like 39,000 undergraduate

I'm just an occasional lurker here, but being in a sorority is not the "only" thing to do at UT, so it's kind of a niche thing and isn't as popular of a thing to do like it might be at some other schools (I'm thinking of some other Texas schools like Baylor or Texas Tech).

That being said, has anyone heard anything about bid day? I haven't seen any updates from my chapter yet and I've been dying to know how they did, as well as the other chapters!

utaustinsfl has an instagram video up (not sure how to share that here)...it's also on their FB page. Looks like some happy girls!

http://instagram.com/p/sI2Vqzl52T/

Does UT post bid lists?

Unfortunately, according to most Panhellenic or campus rules, they could be thrown out of rush entirely for doing something like that. I sure wish PNMs could refuse to allow themselves to be treated like that, too!