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I thought you said you were done?
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good point, I'll stop now. I get egged on easy
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Second, to address the OPs question "So I'm on here to ask what you all think and what you would have done?" I'm pretty sure I would have fallen into the 10%. If the person is not in fact a woman, he is not eligible to be considered for membership. Therefore, no vote is required. If the person has completed transition and is physically and legally a female there'd be a whole mess of worms to deal with now wouldn't there? From a sorority perspective, we don't ask PNMs to hike up their skirts and show us their lady parts. I signed a lot of stuff as a pledge. Maybe something attested to the "yup, I totally meet the requirements", including the fact that I'm a she. Will there come a day when transgendered people are embraced in society as much as homosexuals are today in comparison to 20+ years ago? I don't doubt it. But sorority membership isn't where that will begin. As far as I'm concerned, a young transgender/sexual person has way bigger chickens to fry. To the OP, it's great that you're concerned for your sister's future prospects at happiness. That shows you're a good person. But getting snippy with strangers on the internet won't impact her life. |
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I ask because I was looking over some SAI policies the other day and came across our transgender policy (didn't even really know we had one). It would appear that at the collegiate level, we will only initiate women who are legally and medically female. However, if at some time after initiation, the member elects to transition and identify legally and medically as male, the Fraternity requires that her membership category be changed to the appropriate Distinguished Member category. The member is required to turn in her collegiate badge, membership card, & certificate. Following the appropriate Distinguished Member ritual, the member would wear the Distinguished Member badge and remain in that category of membership. |
I thought about this subject when I became friendly with a trans person who identified as she during my last year of undergrad. I know that our school paper covered her story and that of other members of the trans student population and it got me to thinking.
I've never heard of a trans person pursuing membership in my sorority. Since Title IX is almost irrelevant in the case of my org due to the lack of collegiate chapters, I don't know if being transgender would ever or could ever be a reason for denial of an invitation to membership in Beta. I've also never heard of a sister of Beta Sigma Phi transitioning as a male legally and medically. |
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Back to the OT: From a NPHC perspective, I think this would be less of an issue if the transgendered person was initiated at the graduate level. I think NPHC undergrad chapters might not be so willing to want to initiate a transgendered person. Campus reputation is very powerful. Even in NPHC, no undergrad chapter wants to known as thatchapter. |
Well.
That was fun! |
Most GLOs have woman/man in their descriptions and not female/male.
I have no problem with Delta initiating a collegiate or alumna woman who is easily identified as a woman but is a biological male (who took/takes estrogen) or intersex. With hundreds of thousands of Sorors, I wouldn't be shocked if we have some transgendered women. As long as the woman doesn't make Delta her sounding board for transgenderism. A female who identifies as a man probably would not pursue sorority membership but if he did he should be denied based on gender. If an active member of Delta becomes a man post-initiation, I think this should mean a depledge and Delta should be able to revoke membership. If the man is unwilling to be so polite about this process, the man should be expelled from membership. We are a sorority for women and of women. Not men. |
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That's because it was a quick read. We had original post, heated discussion, and flounce all within three pages. In the old days of GC this would have gone on for 15 - 20 pages. :p |
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This actually applies to any out of the ordinary issue with a PNM. |
Yeah, being transgender isn't a negative, isn't a secret, and the member should be loved and accepted as any other member. The member also shouldn't be loved because she is transgender (unless joining an LGBTQ GLO). Therefore, making it THE issue, THE discussion point, and THE rallying cry does a disservice to a chapter's and GLO's larger goals; and, as far as some transgendered people are concerned, can defeat the purpose of making the TRANsition.
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Regardless of the flounce and the high probability of at least SOME fabrication of the original story, I still think it's an interesting issue to discuss. And although I do have a trans friend (can't finish the process because of a successful career as a drag queen) I can't say I know too much about the issue, except that drag=|= trans. And particularly where it would apply to sorority membership I would want complete transition before consideration, which all but eliminates membership at the collegiate level.
But if a hermaphrodite had gender assignment completed before college I have no issues with membership. You just gotta have the right parts and hopefully we can trust your answer to that question because holy hazing Batman, finding out would be a problem. |
Any fabrication that is in the story was to and still is to protect people from shit going down. If things came out that happened a lot of people could get in a lot of trouble. It's not worth the drama and I don't want to see friends get hurt (I know I said I was done but I think it's something important to mention). The whole premise of the story is more or less true with slight edits for peoples safety.
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I didn't read the OP's posts and am only in this thread because of the larger topic. Either flounce or contribute to the current discussion, anna7363.
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I know, I was really more commenting to Dubaisis' comment
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And I'll flounce, mainly cause I more or less agree with dr. Phill and 33girl. So I wouldn't be adding much new. Except I do feel the demand for surgery is a bit extreme. And the legal situation might change soon cause the American Medical Association just declared that transgender people should be able I change their legal gender on their birth certificate without surgery. So the whole title 9 thing will probably an irrelevant argument before to long
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I'm curious to the reverse scenario. A transgender male attempting to join a fraternity.
Also, to the point of what if they change after they're initiated members, I would think it'd be easier for a sorority member to transition to male and maintain her membership than a fraternity member to transition to female. Mainly because a woman has a lot more leeway, socially speaking, to not always present herself in a feminine manner than a man to present masculine. |
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ETA: 33girl, thanks for the reminder. I can't believe I used that term and have edited my first post. For the GCers who are unfamiliar: http://www.isna.org/faq/hermaphrodite |
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Yeah I can't help myself, I'm contributing lol. Btw, I think its probably already sort of a don't ask don't tell type things going on. Cause like I said earlier I would be incredibly surprised if there were not already trans women and men in greek life who kept there mouths shut.
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Sororitysock, we are not even talking about that anymore, can you please drop it. I don't want to talk about it anymore. We are having a real conversation about a different issue
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Alright, sorority sock puppet, we got your point. Go away.
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I apologize for making up stuff, but honestly you know why I made it up. Because I didn't want to be in a conversation as that weird person who got cookie cutter answers and half truths from everyone because of who I am. Please leave it be
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I'll explain who I am for you all. I am a transgender girl who rushed for greek life at my school. I essentially got lied to by both advisors, students, and others that I had a real fair chance of getting in. It was all in an effort to legally cover their butts. What they did more or less violated university policy. I would have been cool with them telling me that I couldn't tbh. But my problem is that the office of greek affairs and others strung me on for almost a year.
I came on here because I wanted unadulterated opinions on what people think. And not having to deal with the situation of getting half truths. All my friends in greek life from other universities were really surprised when I didn't get in. That is the incredibly short story but intellectually understanding things is my way of coping with stuff. And the shit I got put through has done its number to me. Coming on here and asking a story that got opinions I wanted to hear is part of that intellectual understanding. |
wait…what?
There's no sorority sister? There's no biological sister? This is all make-believe? I'm going to pay attention to the larger issue that's being discussed by sorority and fraternity members, and ignore the side story. |
A lot of people on campus have told me basically what happened in its entirety. My guess is you have to be from one of the three sororities that accept seniors. At least 3 different girls in one of those sororities in particular told me what happened. They are my friends and disgruntled members had more loyalty to me then to you guys. Whether thats because you had treated them like garbage so they vented to me drunk at a party. Bitching about what terrible people you all are. Or they are good friends who trust me intimately and aren't going to bail on me just cause they got into a sorority.
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@AZTheta, This is why I didn't want to tell you guys. So I actually had a voice of some sorts here and could contribute. But clearly there are people who couldn't deal with it and had to out me
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But anna, truthfully, by being mendacious at the outset, you lost credibility.
Like I said, I'm going to focus on the larger issue. I'm thinking our founders didn't have any of these issues before them. |
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@AZTheta Thats fine, I was never on here to complain about me anyways. I just wanted to hear your guys honest thoughts about this.
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Anyone who tells you that you have "a real fair chance of getting in" is doing you a disservice. Especially if they're a relatively new member who isn't sure of all policies and/or the amount of pull they have in the sorority. Especially if they're a student affairs employee who knows nothing about the individual sororities' policies. This applies to ANY rushee. It's people not checking the facts and promoting a roses and daisies world.
I think AOIIAngel hit the nail on the head with her post. |
The people who told me this was actually the head of sorority life at my school. Her exact quote was "as long as you get a bid the odds of you getting in are very high. As in, as long as you don't kill a sister you will be initiated". I found out later that the advisors had been informed that I was trans explicitly to keep me out. Despite the fact the head of sorority life at my school said that every sorority on campus had their national office say I was eligible for a bid.
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anna, this is about you, isn't it? Despite your previous post saying it wasn't. I just need to establish that, because we have two tracks going now - your experience, and the larger picture of transgender membership. FWiwI also agree with AOIIAngel's viewpoint.
I'm simply getting perspective. And membership selection is private, so you really don't know what went on, regardless of what you were told. The bottom line is that you did not receive a bid from an NPC sorority (and you were rushing as a senior?). |
techically, but I was a junior in practice. But still
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You had one sorority that had 40 bids to give away at the informal.They gave away 9 which means they still had 31 bids left to give. But yeah my friends in that particular sorority told me what happened. It was the situation I described in my very first post.
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Maybe I should just leave the chat? Honestly I got the answers I wanted
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