Well then I have to say that the people who PM'd you are COWARDS. If they dont have the strength of their convictions to actually come on this board and discuss this instead of hiding behind you - who I absolutely respect for saying something, even if I don't agree with what you said- then they are NOT EVEN WORTH OUR CONTEMPLATION. Straight up.

And I think that Blackwatch answered you as well as can be. Our founders intended for us to serve the black community FIRST. If a white person is down with that purpose I have no problems - I had a hand in making a "white" Soror on our yard as a matter of fact. But BGLO's have to ALWAYS keep that in mind so it is a valid question to ask.

We want people in our org's who are about service, not about stepping or calling, or social activities. We need to know that a potential Soror or Frater understands our priorities. Even I on some levels wonder if white people can POSSIBLY comprehend it- that to be pro-black is not to be anti-white, that to want our people to advance must be our first priority because we have come so far and have so much farther to go.

Well I have to pat you on the back for challenging assumptions and I hope that you have some understanding of why they are raised.

Disclaimer: The stated opinions on GC ARE NOT the official position of any BGLO - - - Nor do such opinions represent the intent of its membership. Please consult each organization's national office regarding policy issues. ;)

Pretty much.

Re: Time I stepped in
 

I think this is a great post, Sphinxpoet. Very well said.

Re: IMAGE is IMPORTANT
 

Okay - I just have a few things I'd like to point out from your post (with all due respect to your right to free speech, yada yada yada)

Originally posted by APhiAce
Everyone has their own moral values. For many, homosexuality is immoral and negative. I see it as such, and Anti-Alpha. If I saw a sweet brother tryning to get in, I'd vote him down because I see gayness as negative. Some would ask me to check myself in the mirror...I know I sin and do negative anti-Alpha things in my life. But if I displayed these sins publicly, I would have gotten voted down too!

(You have the right to have your own moral values) Okay - so are you saying that you actually have SEEN homosexuals publicly displaying their "sin" -- or that its okay for you to sin because you are behind closed doors? As far as I know, the homosexuals that I am friends with have never gone so far as to hold hands in public, much less to do their business on the lawn of the quad. I'm just wondering what the difference in sin is -- is it only sin when its public?

Just cause you're a fag doesn't mean that you can't do positive work in the frat.

Do you really think using the term "fag" doesn't imply discrimination?? Would you tolerate a gay man using the *n* word when he says "Just because you're a *n* doesn't mean that you can't do positive work in society" I personally don't agree to name-calling based on color, sexual preference, creed, religion, etc. etc. If you don't like someone's sexual preference, then state that -- but don't resort to the name calling.

I can't judge anybody. But we DO judge people when making membership selections and are EXPECTED to. ALPHA doesn't seek negativity.

I don't know of any GLO (red and yellow black and white) that seeks negativity. And yes, we all must judge people for selection. But that doesn't mean that any of us should overstep the boundaries of the criteria that our founders set for us. AXO has always had 5 membership criteria on which PMN's are judged. Its right there on our national website, and we tell each and every woman what these criteria are. None of them would EVER include race, sexual preference, creed, religion, etc. Not since they were established has there been a derivation of these criteria.

As far as Whites in the frat....I don't get it. I think it's suspect. Not all white people are bad, but BGLOs aren't just Fraternal Organizations.

Mighty "black" of you to say -- thanks for letting us all know that not all of us are bad....

I didn't realize that BGLO's aren't "JUST" fraternal orgs? And to think that all along, I was only serving AXO because it was just a fraternal thing to me with no deeper meaning.


We don't plan programs for white people, or target white people for our service. If they so happen to get served...cool. We're trying to save our own. I feel white people may try and DILLUTE our focus and try and use our resources to help "EVERYBODY". We as black folks need our resources dedicated SOLELY TO US! Its human nature to look after your own. If I was in a white organization, I would be thinking of how to use their resources to help my people. I find it hard to imagine that a white person would exclude their OWN people to help ours. I don't want our programs dilluted.
A white person has to have that understanding. If they are willing to submit to serving mostly Blacks, (when using frat time/resources)...then fine...you can join. But don't come in my org trying to "whitewash" it and waste the little resources we have "spreading the love". It sounds prejudice (not racist) but thats REAL. That is my only concern w/white folks in the frat.

And I guess this is where I can say proudly that YES - AXO is promoting non-discrimination. We serve Victims of Domestic Violence. Not - WHITE Victims of Domestic Violence. And not BLACK Victims of Domestic Violence. Victims - period. When we take food, clothing, and supplies to the shelter, we see people of all colors. (To refer to an earlier post of mine from way back when...) We do serve MOSTLY black people....BLACK AND BLUE from bruises that is. When I take the hand of a woman who has been hit so much that she is blind in one eye, then I care not that that hand is white or black...only that she is someone in need. "MY" people means to me any person who is in need. I will not overlook a black woman to give help to a white woman simply because of color. I would not be part of an organization which would tell me WHO I can and cannot help based upon color. If your org wants to support a reading program for black children in a government subsidized housing development -- great. Go for it! But if you were teaching a group of black kids to read and a white kid showed up, would you turn him away -- because wouldn't this be "diluting" your program?? I would hope not. And yes, it does sound racist and prejudiced when you say that you don't want to help anyone other than "your" people. Actually, it just sounds rather sad -- I would hope that someone would help you in your time of need because you NEED someone or something - not because of the color of your skin.

So flame me, PM me, (don't email me - because I have so much spam from the V's I never check it), whatever -- but think about the words you use when you describe others. And think about how you would feel if you were the one being described.

Alabama Omega
 

Right now.. with the Auburn BLACKFACE incident fresh on all QUES minds (even more so in Alabama), I wouldn't risk a White persons health right now by intaking him into Omega.

If the Bruhs saw a white boy walking around, right now, in para, I fear that the white boy would be physically confronted before he could even explain that he's truly a Bruh.

As for gays... no openly gay person can be intaken into Omega. Not saying we don't have gays in the Frat.. but, our 4 Cardinal Principals are: Manhood, Scholorship, Perserverance and Uplift .. and they are in THAT ORDER for a reason.

If you're gay.. you violate the 1st Card.. Manhood. So, unless you hide that fact, you won't get the chance to be intaken.

If you don't meet the 4 Cards, you don't get the 20 pearls...

hi all,

i've been having a very nice conversation with carnation about this whole thing, basically asking why all these folks who pming & e-mailing her about how upset they are about this thread haven't said anything on this thread yet. the reason i've gotten is that they either don't want to start anything, are afraid of the backlash, or are too nice to really reply.

she keeps bringing up the point that if a thread asking if whites want blacks & homosexuals in their orgs was brought up in chit chat/greek life that it would blow up. i keep telling her that's because for the most part we don't have a problem with voicing our opposing view, in essence, its not our problem that they are "too nice" or "too chicken" to say anything. she's seeing that stance as blaming the victim.

they're offended by this discussion & the comments by Dexter & Reds6 & Blackwatch & they want it to stop. they want the moderators to stand up and say that this conversation shouldn't happen. since this isn't my board to moderate, I'm deferring to Professor's judgement. mention was made that this discussion violates the greekchat terms of service.

i just wanted to bring this to y'all attention

YAY AXO ALUM!
 

Thank you for pointing your point of view. Maybe the other disgruntled folks who have been PMing Carnation will have the conviction to so the same.

Well, I'm one of the people who discussed this thread with carnation, so I guess I'm a coward for not standing up sooner. ;) I'll make up for that now.

Considering how many times I've been shot down on GC for stating that HWGLO's are not racist, I had originally just decided to keep my hands off the keyboard concerning this particular thread. I knew that all I'd get in return would be a bunch of comments to the tune of "whites shouldn't be in BGLO's because they don't understand our black culture" or "whites can't relate because they aren't discriminated against in this country" or, my own personal favorite, "I feel white people may try and DILLUTE our focus and try and use our resources to help EVERYBODY."

May I ask what in Hades is wrong with white people wanting to help "Everybody"????? :confused: Or a better question, what in Hades makes it right for blacks to only help their "own kind"? If whites tried to do that, we'd have the black community on our a$$ faster than we could blink. There would be massive protests, marches in Washington, boycotts, etc. And we'd be labeled racists in a heartbeat.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander, folks. And quite frankly, I am highly offended that black GLO members can so calmly state that they would not want a white or homosexual person in their organizations while, in the very next breath, denounce a HWGLO for not offering a bid to a black female who went through Rush.

Quite frankly, I don't care one whit that BGLOs were originally founded during a time when discrimination and racism against blacks was common. The REASON I don't care is because, the last time I checked, the calendar said 2002 -- not 1902. Times have changed and our organizations need to change with them. Discrimination is not NEARLY as prevalent now as it used to be back in the days when our orgs were founded. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, mind you. But it is minimal when you compare it to 50 years ago -- heck, even 25 years ago.

My organization was founded by 6 white women who were studying to become teachers back in 1902 -- a time when women were discriminated against on a daily basis and no one thought anything of it. But does that mean that my organization should be dedicated solely to helping white women teachers in 2002??? Hell no. But, if we followed the same mentality that APhiAce and some other BGLO members seem to follow, then we would be doing exactly that -- and a lot of very deserving people would be missing out on the literally hundreds of philanthropic services that Delta Zeta sisters provide each year simply because they aren't the same "kind" of people as our founders were.

APhiAce says, "We as black folks need our resources dedicated SOLELY TO US! Its human nature to look after your own. If I was in a white organization, I would be thinking of how to use their resources to help my people. I find it hard to imagine that a white person would exclude their OWN people to help ours."

That comment is what separates my idea of philanthropy from APhiAce's version -- see, I don't think of whites as being my "OWN people". People are people, and I think we should help the ones that need it the most. If I used APhiAce's philosophy, then I suppose my local chapter of DZ would be looking for some new charities to support because, right now, our two main local philanthropies are an after-school program for low-income children in a predominantly black neighborhood and the Big Brothers/Big Sisters program. Can you imagine what kind of reaction we'd get if we went up to the BB/BS office and said, "We're willing to help out your organization, but we only want the white girls in your program." ???? :eek: :eek: :eek: Jeez, you want to get your name in the headlines fast in this country? Go do something like that while wearing the letters of an NPC sorority.

From the things I'm reading in this thread, and in others found in other BGLO forums, it sounds as though many black GLO members prefer the idea of keeping things "separate but equal" between the black community and the non-black communities. In case someone forgot - we tried that for a while, and the black people weren't too thrilled about it. In fact, if I remember my history book correctly, they called it discrimination. Go figure.

Thank you to all for your comments. I have not received any personal messages requesting cincture of this topic. Personally, I think the conversation is healthy. I do not specifically see an attack on or from any particular group or individual. In fact, I think it is ok for folk to say that they don't care to have whites, blacks, gays, etc. in their organizations. However, we must keep sight that there is a larger picture. The larger picture is that most members on GC do not represent the governing board of our organizations. We all know that each organization has mandates that don't allow us to practice any form of discrimination as it relates to membership. To my Frat Brothers, this type of discussion is a perfect example of how individuals gain perceptions of the mindset of our brotherhood. When you publicly post that you won't vote for gays, whites etc. it sends a message to others that view the post that we discriminate. In addition, as someone suggested, all hell would break loose if the White organizations said they would not accept Blacks for membership. I suggest that we be mindful that every Black person does not support the betterment of our people and many White folk have supported the development of Blacks.

What comments by Dexter were offensive? The one about me having a white frat brother who is one of the BEST brothers in my fraternity? Or was it the one about me not minding whites in the frat as long as they work hard to uphold the light? dzrose93 suggested that this is 2002 not 1902, so things have changed and racism doesn't exist. GET A CLUE! Are you so naive as to think that racism is as rampant today as it was back then? If so then open your eyes, come outside and join us in society. If you cannot comprhend that BGLO's were founded DESPITE segregation and racism, then you need not speculate as to why this topic is here. My frat was founded on the priciples of Manly Deeds, Scholarship, and Love for ALL mankind. I think that includesd whites too. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr ( who is a member of my frat) marched with people of ALL races for equality. Ask yourself what's the real reason why some are offended by this topic? Is it the fact that we are discussing some truth? or is it the fact that knowlegde is contagious?

Oh and if I am still offending some of you...SO WHAT!!! IF YOU KNOW ME YOU KNOW THAT I DON'T GIVE A DAMN!!!

Dexter, before you start criticizing me, perhaps you should re-read my post. NEVER did I say that racism doesn't exist in today's society. On the contrary, I willingly admitted that discrimination still occurs -- just not as much as it did in the past. I also noted that BGLO's were founded in a time when racism against blacks was rampant, so please don't try to twist my words.

As for the rest of your post - you just proved my whole point in why I originally did not want to post on this subject. Some people just don't want to hear any opinions that differ from their own, and they get far too upset when a person with a differing view makes some legitimate points. You don't give a damn if you offend someone with your own comments, yet you'd be one of the first to scream discrimination if you thought a white person was acting in a racist manner towards a black person. It's called being two-faced, and it's a trait that a lot of people have, no matter what color they may be.

On a more positive note, I want to say thank you to Professor and sphinxpoet for their posts. :)

DZROSES,

I am soooooooo tired of people such as yourself bringing up this "reverse discrimination" and "its 2002" issue. BGLO orgs target black communities. Honestly, do you really think that if some non-AA people were to come and participate (***NEWS FLASH*****THERE ARE NON-AA PEOPLE THAT LIVE AND WORK IN PREDOMINATELY BLACK COMMUNITIES!!!!), that a BGLO would turn them away????

Because no one, especially people such as yourself, wo9uld like to sweep racial discussions under the rug, we will never get past this. Guess what, it will be 3003 and folks will probably still be talking about this because of "don't talk about it" attitudes such as yours.

Ohhh, I'm just too upset right now to even finish my post......................

I've been reading this thread with interest so I'll add my two cents. In college I became friends with several Kappas in my dorm, and I lived in a suite with a Delta Sigma Theta Sister. I saw up close how committed to community service these orgs are. I was always impressed because despite the small size (fewer than 15 members), there was usually 100% attendence. The NPC and IFC orgs. had memberships of 40 to 85 and didn't do as many service projects as the NPHCs. These community service projects such as coat and clothing drives, voter registration, and tutoring children improved the entire community not one race.

I guess the problem here is lack of understanding of the purpose of the NPHC groups. I think that focusing on serving one racial group primarily is not 'reverse discriminaton' or bigotry. My understanding from my college experience is that the primary focus of the NPHC orgs is to improve society with a focus on the African American community. There is nothing wrong with that particularly when placed in historic context of the founding of both the NPHC orgs and charities. Many charities were started as a way of helping members of a specific ethnic, racial, or religious group. I think that as members of all GLOs we need to continue to support each other in our endeavors.

As far as membership goes, I remember that not all of the NPHC members were African American, and not all of my sisters were white. The thing about sexuality is that many people don't realize that they are gay until college. I know of several men who have pledged and then had this realization. Like it or not I am certain that there have been gays and lesbians in every GLO out there.

People don't care if your opinion is different, but somehow if someone ask for clarification (differs from what YOU say) then its all of a sudden a problem.

Honeykiss,

Yes, I do honestly think that if some non-AA people were to come and offer to participate in something benefiting a black community that a BGLO would turn them away. Want to know where I got this idea? Then read the posts previous to mine in this thread.

You've got MEMBERS OF BLACK GLOS stating for the record that they DO NOT want white people to be involved in their organizations which means, that NO, they don't want white people to be in a position to help out black communities. I suppose if the whites got out there and offered help on their own, then that's okay. But apparently for some of the black GLO members on GC, the whites can help out as long as they don't try to get "too" involved in the black culture (read: join a HBGLO). That sounds pretty racist to me. Kind of like telling a black parent at a predominantly white school that we'd love her help in manning a booth at the school fair, but we don't need her to join the PTA.

http://www.plaudersmilies.de/sad/shakehead.gif

You post tells me that you have probably never attended an event sponsored by a BGLO.

It this e-conversation is to continue it will be done with respect to differing views!!!! I think we all know that discrimination STILL exists. Black folk and Alpha has come a long way. I understand the comments of opposing views to be that BGLO should not make statements that they don't want White folk and gays in their organization. The fact of the matter is that we all and i do mean all greek letter organizations have gays, and a number of other races in our organization. additionally, i personally belive that if your organization has mission statement regarding the discrimination of gays and other races and you don't agree then i would suggest that your needs are no longer being met by your organization - - - - We need to stop saying we love XYZ if we don't respect and uphold the guidlelines of our organization. We all have a choice.

Actually, I have. But my point is that, although I may have attended an event sponsored by a BGLO, the comments that I've read in this thread have indicated to me that I would be most unwelcome if I ever tried to actually join a BGLO.

It's as if some of the black GLO members on GC have a line drawn in the sand that they don't want whites to cross. We can get close enough to help out philanthropy-wise on our own, but we're being told that it isn't okay to jump in headfirst and help out side by side as a member of an HBGLO. To me, that's wrong. It's as if you want your cake, but you want to eat it, too.

The perception that I'm getting from reading threads like this one is that blacks want equality in this country and don't want to be be discriminated against. However, some of them are discriminating against whites and don't see a problem with doing so. It's time for those people to decide: do they want to voluntarily and deliberately separate themselves from what they perceive as a "white" community and strive for the betterment of their own race only, or do they want to be treated equally as the whites and work together to better EVERY community?

Question for everyone:

The Boy Scouts of America also wanted to adopt a "no gay members" policy( which was upheld by the us supremem court) because they felt that it was a contradiction to what they stood for. Why is this "diiscrimination" ok to the eyes of many? I am going to assume that they will not be doing any service within the gay community or with any gay service orgs or programs.

From the Boy Scouts of America:
"More than 90 years ago, the Boy Scouts of America (BSA) was founded on the premise of teaching boys moral and ethical values through an outdoor program that challenges them and teaches them respect for nature, one another, and themselves. Scouting has always represented the best in community, leadership, and service.

The Boy Scouts of America has selected its leaders using the highest standards because strong leaders and positive role models are so important to the healthy development of youth. Today, the organization still stands firm that their leaders exemplify the values outlined in the Scout Oath and Law"

Aren't these your words? Did you read my post? The part about as racism being as RAMPANT today as 1902. Secondly you are ALLOWED to voice your opinion anytime and any place that you choose. The reason that I say I don't care is because YOU and the others who have problems with my comments, are either not reading them or are only hearing what you want to hear!! If you read every post on here you should understand where some of these people in BGLO's are coming from. If you don't understand, don't get SENSITIVE and start claiming reverse discrimination. There's a good reason why you don't understand. YOU CANNOT RELATE TO W?HAT WE GO THROUGH AS AA IN SOCIETY! As I stated before I have LOTs of white friends who I consider family. So please KNOW what you are talking about BEFORE you COMMENT!

The establishment of WGLO's an BGLO's are clearly different. Our history, purpose, etc is different. (Think we have discussed the differences in detail, no need to go there again)
Are you aware that WGLO's had houses because it was considered prestigous. BGLO's established our houses, because although blacks were allowed to attend the universities, they were not allowed to reside on campus. Our houses were established to provide black students with a supportive and safe place to live while in college.


I don't have a problem with whites wanting to help, but do you have to be a member of a black organization to help? Is that the only way?

I could truly care less is WGLO's didn't want a black person in their org. I can't understand why a black person would want to join a WGLO int he first place. i went to a school were ther were WGLO's BGLO's, etc., and I knew a black girl that was a member of a WGLO for awhile, and she wasn't treated like an equal member. She later joined a BGLO. When BGLO's would have a prty on my campus, we had to have double the amount of security than the WGLO's and then had drinking at their parties. I have watched the WGLO's on my campus, holler racial slurs at us, attack black students and when the black students protected themselves, guess who got in trouble.

Quite frankly, I don't care one whit that BGLOs were originally founded during a time when discrimination and racism against blacks was common. The REASON I don't care is because, the last time I checked, the calendar said 2002 -- not 1902. Times have changed and our organizations need to change with them. Discrimination is not NEARLY as prevalent now as it used to be back in the days when our orgs were founded. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, mind you. But it is minimal when you compare it to 50 years ago -- heck, even 25 years ago.


I'm not sure if you are white or not. But racism hasn't decreased its just hidden better. Now I don't expect you to understand, so I won't go into a long explanation with examples



That comment is what separates my idea of philanthropy from APhiAce's version -- see, I don't think of whites as being my "OWN people". People are people, and I think we should help the ones that need it the most. If I used APhiAce's philosophy, then I suppose my local chapter of DZ would be looking for some new charities to support because, right now, our two main local philanthropies are an after-school program for low-income children in a predominantly black neighborhood and the Big Brothers/Big Sisters program. Can you imagine what kind of reaction we'd get if we went up to the BB/BS office and said, "We're willing to help out your organization, but we only want the white girls in your program." ???? :eek: :eek: :eek: Jeez, you want to get your name in the headlines fast in this country? Go do something like that while wearing the letters of an NPC sorority.

Ok, let's come back into the real world. Sweetie, that does happen. People, Organizations, Companies, etc. specify all the time about the make up of the type of people they want to help. I know this first had. I work for a major non-profit and we recruit for foster parents and we have a number of parents that strongly specify they only want to work with white children. And guess what they are approved as foster parents.

DZrose ,

I must tell you that you are incorrect in that assumption. I am not a member of a BGLO but first I must remind you that BGLO's are very large organizations made up of a variety of members each with unique personalities so it wou ld be inappropriate to make sweeping statements about how BGLO members feel and what BGLO members want because they do not all think alike.

Secondly, I would like to say that at my University that white students, hispanic students, and any other student who wishes to have attend many of our BGLO events including step shows, probate shows, and programs that the different groups have held in the past. In fact a friend of mine who was a vistor from another school commented on how "mixed" the crowd was at the last step show and these people have NOT been ask to leave one event that I attended.

I have also witnessed the collaboration between sororities in the NPC and sororities in BGLO's for a charity step exhibition in which the BGLO sororities taught the ladies in NPC sororities step routines and the ladies in the NPC sororities put them on for students on campus with the BGLO ladies hugging and congratulating them after their performances. Another reason for us NOT TO ASSUME ANYTHING.

I have also seen members of all BGLO's personally work in neighborhood youth centers with children of all races. Not just black children and I'll tell you what, every child there looked up to these members and were happy that these members took the time out of their day to spend time with them. In fact one of the BGLO's uses their own funds to put on a carnival twice a year for local community children and they are not only black children. Again, please let's not make sweeping assumptions.


I think it is very important to take in to consideration the history of many of these organizations. Although, it is 2002 it would be ludicrous to ask the members of BGLO's to forget the past because, Hey it's 2002 and there's not such thing as prejudice. If we forget the past we are doomed to repeat it. Rascism is still alive and well in today's society, it is just more hidden. Instead of calling you a name to your face people just wait for you to leave the room, and to me that is not any better.

Oh well, that's my non member take. I mean no offense just trying to inform.

V.E.

So let me understand that if one member of an organization feels that way, then you indict ALL BGLOs? Do you see how asinine that sounds?

Originally posted by dzrose93
Actually, I have. But my point is that, although I may have attended an event sponsored by a BGLO, the comments that I've read in this thread have indicated to me that I would be most unwelcome if I ever tried to actually join a BGLO.

First of all one would have to do more than just attend a party to be invited to join my organization.

But to be honest with you, No I wouldn't vote for you. I'm sure there are those that would welcome you. If I came across a white Delta, I would never disrespect her. I would acknowledge her as a Delta, but not Soror. But I'm one person and this is just my opinion. It doesn't reflect the thoughts of my other Sorors, Delta Sigma Theta, Inc.,etc.

Relax, Relate Release now Dexter, lol!

I think that dzrose is basically not addressing your or my comments because they don't fit in with her theory.

She has made certain assumptions that she doesn't care to have challenged and so contrary evidence (like your posts and my posts about actually having peple of another race IN OUR CHAPTERS) is dismissed.

We know this.

There are ALWAYS going to be members of BGLO's who don't want white people in our organizations. Do you know why? Because THERE ARE ALWAYS GOING TO BE SOME BLACK PEOPLE WHO, WHETHER THROUGH PAINFUL EXPERIENCE OR THROUGH SHEER HARDHEADEDNESS DON'T TRUST WHITE PEOPLE!

Organizations can only reflect the societies that compose them. I don't know whether they can even understand that when they talk about racial prejudice and discrimination, that those are things our PARENTS and GRANDPARENTS lived through- segregation was rampant when my Mother came to this country from Jamaica. I know that for people who are from America their parents and grandparents SUFFERED under Jim Crow laws. IT WAS NOT THAT LONG AGO that this happened! IT still lives on in our families memories and it will take more than one generation of white people going "Oh no, we really like you" for those memories to go away.

Did you know that BGL Sororities initially had things like Delta Beaux and MIAKA's because men were needed to PROTECT these women from members of the KKK? SO many of our purposes and our traditions are rooted in a sense of black unity and empowerment that for us to open our organizations to a non-black person requires a huge leap of faith for MANY.

To Discriminate, or Not to discriminate
 

I guess this hits at an essential question that I offered in another thread (which no one responded to :rolleyes: ), Is the MAIN focus of our orgs. community service or fraternal/sororital? If it is merely community service, then it seems obsurd to think that we would object to whites and gays within the ranks, for they can offer just as much service to our communities as any other person. But if we delve deeper into the fraternal ideal, we'll see that manly deeds, scholarship, and love for all mankind our the "aims" of the fraternity, but what is the "True Spirit" of fraternity? If this were strickly a community service organization, then why have "secrets" (such as hailing signals, passwords, grips, etc.). These things are not neecssary for community service. But we have these things because we want to have at some level, a sense of commonality and mutual agreement that we will not have with anyone else besides another brother. To have this commonality, there must be agreement on some level about certain values and ethics. Earlier in this thread, someone astutely noted that only 5% of black men are in a BGLO, this means selectivity, not everyone fits the criteria that was agreed upon in part by founders and now by brothers who are active as to who is worthy of the priviledge (not a right, but a PRIVILEDGE)to wear the letters A Phi A. So when a brother voices concerns about certain character traits that he deems unacceptable (whether it be homosexuality, white supremacy, or promiscuity or thievery,) his primary concern should be whether this man will be able to wear the letters and represent them to the fullest intent laid forth by the founders and the active brotherhood. It is not only about community service, it is about the "True Spirit of Fraternity" as well, this sets us apart from Big Brothers/Big Sisters or the Urban League.
Professor brings up a great point about the general organization's no discrimination policy. I accept it, but I feel this means that any man has the opportunity and can be considered for brotherhood, but does not guarentee every man will be a brother. Being a Brother of Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity, and from attending conventions and talking with officials within the fraternity, neither do I feel that the general organization feels that every man that wants to will be a brother, Black , White, Sraight,Gay, honest, Liar, or whatever. That's why membership, as they say, has it's priviledges.

Overlooked.......
 

Maybe if people would actually read the ALL of the comments instead of the title they would have seen the following:

"but, I feel that discriminating against non-blacks would be foul." -delph998

"We are apart of the same organization, we share common goals as far as the organization is concerned, so I must accept the fact that she is a Soror and let it be that." -AKA2D '91

"I did meet a White soror at our regional conference...before the conference was over, I introduced myself to her and gave her a hug, because she IS my soror, and I bet she has a hard time a lot, so I wanted to kinda make her feel welcome."
-Ideal08

"For the record, BGLO do not - well - Should Not practice Discrimination!!! - - - race and sexual preference "Should Not" be an issue." -Professor

"I KNOW a white brother of A PHI A personally. His name is Jamie and he is one of the most intelligent and hard working guys in the frat." -Dexter

"I don't have a problem with non AA or homosexuals being members of our organizations." -Zetaphied

the QUES
 

The main focus of Omega Psi Phi is Friendship.... Service is one of the facets of the Org.. but, there are many community service orgs you can join.

You've got to be kidding, right :confused: :mad: ? Sweetie, if I watch documenteries, talk with my parents, grandparents, etc., read history books that actually show the veiwpoints and experiences of Black people and not just what white people want to show, then I know that everything was just separate, definitely NOT EQUAL. Not to mention white people imposed it on us, it wasn't our choice. I have absolutely no problem with "separate but equal" as long as everything is actually EQUAL. And as long as each individual still has the OPTION to do what they want and go where they want, etc. I am fine with an all black neighborhood, HBCUs, or even all black companies. I personally love that. However those who don't should have the option to do otherwise.

DZRose did speak up and look what has happened to her. People are lined up out the door to bash her and it seems as though EVERYONE is trying to take words out of context in their replies.

DZRose didn't start a crusade against blacks, nor has she ever said that racism doesn't exist. She simply stated her POV because she was considered a coward for not speaking up previously. And look what has come of it - nothing but personal attacks.

Where are these so-called "solutions" that people are supposedly looking for? I'm still waiting to see the solution to racism -- and that IMO includes discriminating against a potential member in ANY GLO based on the color of his or her skin.

My momma always said to all of us kids -- "We do not hate. Period." Sounds like there are others on here of ALL colors that should heed that advice.

Again, feel free to PM me - my dang ol email stays full of spam from the V's and the lotto people who keep trying to send me a billion bucks.

"they" got some NERVE! ("they" gotta deal with racism TOO!)
 

"they're offended by this discussion & the comments by Dexter & Reds6 & Blackwatch & they want it to stop. they want the moderators to stand up and say that this conversation shouldn't happen."

How dare "they" try and dictate what we will discuss! They aint none of our MASTERS! We are FREE! We have the right to express our opinions. If this topic is too REAL for them, then they need
to skip this thread.

" by AXO Alum "

" Okay - so are you saying that you actually have SEEN homosexuals publicly displaying their "sin" -- I'm just wondering what the difference in sin is -- is it only sin when its public?"

I I've seen gays who make it OBVIOUS they are gay. Also if I find out thru trusted sources that someone is gay...I would go on that as I would with any other acusation of negative behavior. If it is not known that you are gay, and I can't tell, then you could SLIDE in Alpha under my nose. Just like if you were a rapist, gangster, or anything else I consider negative, you would slide in as well. But if I find out, forget about it. Its a sin whether its behind close doors or in public...but if I catch you...THAT is when I can block you from Alpha.



"Do you really think using the term "fag" doesn't imply discrimination?? Would you tolerate a gay man using the *n* word"

F*g and Gay mean the same thing...someone who is attracted to the same sex. The "N" world means "an ignorant person". It DOESN'T mean a Black person, though historically white people have called Blacks the name. A white person can be an "N".
F*g has a more negative conotation than gay. If you feel homosexuality is negative, then you tend to term it with the negative conotation. But, I will be PC and use gay. I don't believe F*g means a homo who should be discriminated against.

"I don't know of any GLO (red and yellow black and white) that seeks negativity. And yes, we all must judge people for selection. But that doesn't mean that any of us should overstep the boundaries of the criteria that our founders set for us."

I don't interpret homosexuality in line with our founders criteria for someone who exemplifies Manhood (which is different from just being male)
...just my interpretation. Further it is unrealistic for everyone to full agree with EVERYTHING their org says. So if homos get in, its a personal problem for me, not the Frat at large.
"MY" people means to me any person who is in need. ...And yes, it does sound racist and prejudiced when you say that you don't want to help anyone other than "your" people. Actually, it just sounds rather sad -- I would hope that someone would help you in your time of need because you NEED someone or something - not because of the color of your skin."

A certain group of people have been (and continue to be) oppressed by another group of people. I fall into the category of the ones oppressed so those are MY PEOPLE. White people aren't racially oppressed by anyone so there is no need to FOCUS resources on that race. Blacks and people of color are...thus the need to look out for ourselves (because our white oppressor DEFINITELY are not)
I don't have anything against helping someone in need. But white people in need have more resources available than Black people in need. So I'm gonna focus the FEW resources we do have for us ON US! Like I said, I don't have a problem if a white person gets helped by us. Our resources are for us SPECIFICALLY, and others COINCIDENTALLY. I'm targeting helping OUR neighborhoods. If whites live in our neiborhoods, then they will be helped too. Racism implies a power to oppress, which NO BLACK person HAS...There for I can't be racist. I can however be descrimatory and prejudice. Racism, Descrimination, and Prejudice are DIFFERENT words for a REASON (all though they are related).

"Think about the words you use when you describe others. And think about how you would feel if you were the one being described. "

I can see your point about using the f*g word. I can use whatever word gays prefer for their behavior...it all means the same thing to me. There is no need for me to try and make them angry with a word they don't like. As far as the harshness of what I'm saying...
the racial problem (which in my opinion is as relevant and strong as ever) is more harsh for Blacks then any white could EVER imagine. We deal with it EVERYDAY...but when it comes across some whites computer screen they want to BAN the conversation so that they don't have to deal with it. The reality is that life is unfair. And it is MORE unfair for Blacks than whites. The scale is tipped in the favor of whites. I will use ALPHA to help BALANCE the scale. If I equally add weight to both sides of the scale, it will NEVER be balanced. Therefore, I'm adding ALL my weight to the BLACK SIDE!

...Kudos to any white people who are trying to balance the scale...I appreciate it.

What? Because she stepped up and commented we are supposed to accept what she says with smiles and cheers? I admire her for speaking up but quite frankly I really don't think that she COMPLETELY read all of the post before she commented. Because she not only contradicts herself, but judges an entire group of people because of the way a few of them feel. Just like you who did not understand the replies that she got were making a statement not dzrosebashing. Which tells me that you really didn't read either. For instance refer to sunnydays96's post. Listen Tell everyone that is afraid to comment to join in the discussion. Because I think there are alot oif thse people who just don't get it and I would like the opportunity to explain it clearly to them.

No one has personally ATTACKED Dzroses but are just challenging her opinions. They same thing would (and HAS ) happened to me on various boards. Being questioned about something you say IS NOT a personal attack!!! That is not only howw you get to the root of things, but maybe even learn somethings new! (I did concerning the history of the Delta Gents and MIAKA's).

Re: White or Homosexual members
 

IN AN EFFORT TO GET THIS DISCUSSION BACK ON TRACK..........
To expand on Dexter's original question, what about other minority prospectives (i.e. Hispanic, Asian, etc.)? Just curious.......

I know that Kappa at my school had Latino members. This was before the proliferation of MCGLOs.

Re: Re: White or Homosexual members
 

I don't have a problem with it. I don't think a lot of others do either as it is less of a problem for one minority group to identify with another.

Same thing that goes for white members of AKA goes for them, if you can be down with our goals then we have no problems! You are my Soror and I will show you love!

Controversy....(singing Prince's song)...
 

Personally, I don't have a problem with either...as long as you pay your dues and stay active..... If I run into a white (or non-AA) or homosexual soror....I'll greet her just the same as my AA sorors. Now I can't say I wouldn't wonder why she chose such (and probably would ask her if we became friends), but hey...I'd realize she's a soror and we can hang....

One thing I must say is that...yes, to some non-AA's, this thread may seem racist. However, it is a lot of WGLO that wouldn't want AA in their organizations. I guess because this is a public forum, people think BGLOs shouldn't discuss this (Soror AKA2d -- its not politically correct -- smile). But what message do you think was sent to AAs by the WGLOs who mocked the Omegas? (as I recalled, it was a sorority and two fraternities at that party. And from the pictures everyone thought it was very cute and got a good laugh)? To me, it said that we don't want black people in our orgs. What message was sent to AA young women when the WGLO sorority didn't select the AA girl because other WGLO fraternities and sororities wouldn't want to have parties with them (at least that's what the article said)? To me, that says...some white people don't want us in their stuff?

My point is simple....in WGLO you have people who have the very same viewpoint. And some will base their views on their history and etc. just as my fellow BGLO sisters and brothers have done here. Basically, you will find people in both groups...WGLOs and BGLOs who don't want people of other races in their organizations. This is their personal opinion. Not the opinion of the entire organziation!!! And people have right to their own opinion. I think the problem here (why people think they are being bashed or etc.) is that people are trying to convince others that they are wrong or sway their opinions! And its not working.......

Just my .08 cent.....Continue on.

BTW....Racism still runs rampant in this country...it's just not as VISIBLE!! I know I experience it all the time....even if its just someone clinching their purse in the elevator, a white store clerk looking funny when you pay with a credit card, or simply a waiter adding in a tip to my charge because you know 'black folk don't tip'.....its all the same. And I have my JD, CPA and MBA and this still happens sometimes....So yes, its very alive!!!!! It may not be blantant, but it is living and breathing.....

Re: IMAGE is IMPORTANT
 

Truth: What would be the response if this topic came up in a board of a frat/soror that was mostly white? What if the organization had members that brought up the topic of sketching african-americans joining or being members already? They started saying they should be weary or they don't want them to come in and trying to "blackwash" the fraternity and use the resourced to help out "their people." Would that be considered racist? Would it be wrong, unethical, what?

I'm not trying to bring up a huge brawl, and i'm not pointing my fingers at anyone, just asking a few simple questions, hoping to get a few educated answers.

"To be fake for even a second is to be fake for all of your life"

***edited part***

To all some history: I belong to a historically white fraternity, yet we do have eight african-american members, so I quess I don't quite understand some of the feelings i've read on here.

Further, about the wglos that mocked the omegas at a party, those were three organizations, they don't represent all wglos, and that should be know, to think otherwise would form stereotypes and prejudices, and I don't recall many people that talked about it as being "cute" because that shit ain't right at all and people that aren't ignorant know that.

d

Re: Re: IMAGE is IMPORTANT
 

Damasa,

Please read all of the post on this board (especially the last one by Blackwatch). There is a wealth of information post by some that explain WHY BGLO's focus on AA communities.
If the roles were reversed and SOME white GLO members were saying that they did not want blacks in their org. (I would probaly participate in that thread and post some logical knowledge and not just my personal opinion or experiences) becasue they were founded to uplift the white community, would I consider that racism? Only if their definition of "uplifting the community" meant oppressing mine or any other minority.
BGLO's DO NOT go out and opress other groups of people while trying to better theirs. Yes, their main focus are on the African american community, just like LGLO's main focus is on the Latino community, as so on.
Please go and check out www.naacp.com and www.naawp.com and compare the two. These are two orgs, founded on two different historical bases, but yet, you teel me which one is the racist. No where on the NAACP's website will you find offensive speech, ideas, para', membership requirement, or anything of that nature, unlike the naawp.