Clemsongirl, what is the timeline for the proposed Greek Village?

Someone mentioned my school, Nevada at Reno up thread .....and I agree. Hopefully we'll open for expansion soon.

I totally wonder about this question as well. Kansas State had increased total total by about 20 over the past couple years, while at the same time opening for extension. TriSigma was supposed to colonize last month, but has pulled back. Seven of 12 existing chapters are under total this spring, and 6 are doing COB (which I am sure opened after the decision to postpone colonization.) I feel badly for TriSigma; it doesn't seem to me that the demand was there to extend at this time.

Virginia Commonwealth also seems to be a bit aggressive on expansion.

Yep - they're my #1, and NC State isn't too far behind them. It makes me wonder if these stacked groups will really choose to colonize. It seems like some stacked colonizations are firmer than others.

What's going on with the old DPhiE house at UGA? Is it still there?

When DPhiE left, they sold the house to the University. It is now the Office of International Education (study-abroad).

I was told when I first came to Clemson in 2012 that it would be done by 2016, but it's 2014 and the University and chapters still can't come to an agreement about who would own the houses, who would pay for the houses, how big they would be, and other stuff I probably don't know about. The plans that were posted online have also been taken down, so I'm unsure of the status of our Greek Village at this point.

I heard that Phi Mu is coming on in the fall. Will they be unhoused for the time being? I'd hate for them to have to postpone.

Sounds like what happened at Tennessee. They talked about the Sorority Village for at least a decade before houses actually got there. Good luck! :)

So UGA people, realistically, is UGA the kind of school that might move departments around to accommodate NPC needs, or not?

No. It's the other way around...move Greek housing to accommodate the University. I think that some of the houses might be in the position where the University owns the land, the GLO owns the house. At least, that's how it was for some of the fraternity houses. The university is expanding. That's why some of the fraternities are having to get creative with housing.

I am not enough in-the-know about extension at TCU to have any answers or inside information. I have heard the same rumor about Phi Mu from a few freshmen but have not seen/heard that from any official source.

Should any groups come on board between now and the completed new village there is no doubt that they would be accounted for with the new housing. In fact, the current drawings/renderings of the village include houses for future groups. The only thing not set in stone is when ground breaking will occur, thus there is no move-in date at the current time. We have been hearing "in the next 3-5 years" as a move in date for several years now, so that clearly has been a moving timeline.

The administration is VERY greek friendly. I would expect that they would work with any new group in the interim to give them the closest possible experience to housing. For example, there are 2 brand new dorms (one opened fall 2013, one to open fall 2014) that are located in the Greek area. My guess- and it is just a guess- that they could designate a floor of one of those dorms to the new group.

AOII took the last current housing spot, which is a portion of a 3 story dorm that was converted into 4 town-home style chapter houses. (This is the same style as all the fraternities and sororities). Unfortunately they got a wonky cut, and their layout isn't compatible for using it for recruitment. Therefore they did recruitment out of a fraternity house, which could be an option for a group that comes on before the village is finished.

So, there ARE ways to make it work. I just haven't heard anything concrete that the Greek Life office and the administration are choosing to go that route right away. Also, the lack of a formal announcement by this point in the school year leads me to believe that perhaps Fall 2014 isn't happening. I could see Fall 2015- that's one year closer to the new village, and would allow the new group plenty of time to market itself. In addition, it gives AOII an extra year of recruitment under their belt before another group comes on since Fall 2013 was their first formal recruitment. But again, I am not an in-the-know type person so take everything that I say with a grain of salt.

But the need is definitely there. The demand could actually support multiple new groups. It would take 4 new groups to get quota sub-50. That is key, as this is a school that students choose because of its small size, so the current 220ish chapter size/high 60s quota is in such contrast to everything else about the school (small enrollment, small classes, small dorms, etc).

Phi Mu would be an excellent addition to the campus. I would also love to see any/all of our 3 closed groups come back. There has definitely been enough time lapse, as the most recent closing was in 1992.

Some of those houses are historic and I doubt seriously that moving those groups is an option! And some do own their own land and some the land is owned by UGA - and some of those are right next door to each other! Sort of makes for odd zoning!

I was just asking to see if it might be possible for a new group to buy/rent the DPhiE house, but it sounds like that's not in the cards. I know it's on Lumpkin, but that doesn't seem to be hurting AXO (or SDT, though that's a little bit apples and oranges).

News story on TCU Greek Village with renderings. It's from 2012, but I don't think much has changed.

http://www.tcu360.com/campus/2012/03...ousing-demands

I think just being in the proximity of Milledge or campus is helpful. There are a couple of apartment complexes down in the Five Points area. Perhaps purchasing one of those and re-purposing it as a Greek house might be an option.

That looks nice! I know AOPi is next to Gamma Phi in the last existing space. Funny how I'm right here in FW, but I don't hear much "official." I think Phi Mu would do well at TCU.

For those in the know about TCU, what is the percentage of female undergrads who are in a sorority (NPC, NPHC, multi-cultural)? Is it near what may be thought of as a saturation point? Or is the approach more of reducing total/quota without necessarily affecting the percentage of undergrads who are members? I think that is what you are suggesting ComradesTrue. TCU is not a large school. The same thing strikes me about Sacred Heart. It too is not a large school. It is not as if 80 percent of the undergrad classes are unaffiliated from which to populate a colony.

Clemsongirl, thank you for the update. I too noticed that the village plans were no longer on the website.

Phi Mu is on my list for Fall 2015, but things may have changed in two years since that official announcement.

ETA: LaneSig's 2011-12 GC Colony list says Fall 2014 for Phi Mu, but again it's two year old info.

The Panhellenic site for TCU states that 46% of undergraduate women are in sororities. I don't know if that is just NPC, or all sororities.

Haven't some of the fraternities lost houses at UGA due to growth of the university? A former coworker's son's fraternity lost theirs for this reason, and they weren't the only one. Michael Adams was not popular in their family for this among other reasons.

Thanks, Irishpipes. The TCU percentage is lower than I had imagined. There is room both to reduce chapter size and increase participation.

I don't think Mizzou should open for expansion right now, as there is a house on campus that has a tough time meeting quota every year and a few houses on campus that are constantly COBing to keep themselves total. I think Mizzou should focus on building up our current houses before we expand!

Total should be average chapter size. So, at every school there will be some chapters below total. That doesn't mean total isn't higher than chapters would prefer. Total at Mizzou is VERY high - one of the highest in the nation.

My understanding from reading the Panhellenic website that the 46% reflects just NPC. That also aligns with figures that I have heard that "over half the women at TCU are Greek." However, there would still be enough of a pool for a least a couple new groups.

I just read all the Panhellenic minutes, located here, from last semester. Nowhere in any of the minutes is there discussion about extension. I can't get the links for this semester to work.

Yes. They bought some of the houses on Lumpkin to expand the library and business school. I think it was one of those situations where the university owned the land and the GLO the house. Displaced fraternities were offered a new university owned house on River Road. I believe three fraternities are located over there. But the university owns the house and it is treated similarly to a residence hall. A fraternity member must be an RA, etc. So not all of the fraternities took the university up on the offer. They wanted more autonomy. I can't say I blame them.

Adams was a jerk. I'm so glad to see him gone. All he was interested in was building more sidewalks and fountains and raising tons of money. He wanted to cram as many students as possible into the university, but not invest in personnel. He never hired professors to keep up with the large increase in the student body. It was more important to build signs and green space. I swore he would never get a red cent of my money. And he didn't. I've only now just begun to donate again when the new president took over.

Agreed, but if there is a lot of variance among chapters, that could be a bad sign.

Virginia Commonwealth- we are still waiting to colonize. Originally we were supposed to colonize, in I believe, fall 2012. It was then pushed back to spring 2013. We still haven't colonized, which means the chapters who were scheduled to colonize after us have also been pushed back.

University of Arizona- one thing standing in the way with expansion there is the housing. All UA chapters have houses. Now it has been 4-5 years since I have been on the campus, but space for housing is a bit limited. Chi Omega and Sigma Kappa weren't housed on the same "row" as the other chapters. Chi Omega got a new house on the "row" in 1998. Sigma Kappa was located quite a bit farther than the other houses, I believe their new house was built around 2008-2009. Alpha Chi, well if they did what we did (renting their house to the university) had a house ready to go.

Now one thing that could possibly be done, if the university does open for expansion, a sorority could buy one of the fraternity house where the chapter has left campus and fix it up and now you have a house, but that is also expensive. ADPi spent a over 1 million to get our house updated for our recolonization in 2008.

Also, what is the deal with Arizona State. I haven't lived in AZ in 4-5 years so I'm out of the loop.

Agree with Irishpipes that VCU overreached on the pace of stacked expansions. .

It is still hard for me to even comprehend what sorority life would be like in a chapter of 200+. I know that it's the paradigm for many NPC women nowadays. They wouldn't know what it would be like to be in a chapter of 60 with new member classes of 20! Years ago I posted somewhere on GreekChat that I'd favor more, and smaller, chapters. Someone responded saying how exhausting it would be to go to 26 open houses! Just now I ran some numbers -- using my alma mater: if Mizzou has 15 groups and 288 total, that's 4320. Divide 4320 by 26 and get 166 so if a campus had the maximum number of NPC groups the chapters would still be large. (If chapter total were 60 it would take 72 chapters to absorb 4320 members. Yes, that IS too many open houses. <g>)

I third that emotion. It seems they were just super excited to be putting commuter college status 6 feet under. Kinda like someone who loses 25# on a crash diet, buys a ton of new clothes, and then gains all the weight back.

I'm sure some of these schools where Greek life interest seems to increase/decrease super rapidly is a result of new blood and new ideas in the admissions offices.

With Fall 2011 Zeta Tau Alpha colony and Spring 2012 Alpha Xi Delta colony, I can see where Alpha Delta Pi's colony was moved from Fall 2012.

Does Phi Sigma Sigma have absolute recolonization time of 2015, or can they (with ADPi, Kappa Delta, and Gamma Phi Beta) be pushed forward, too?

And when will birthrate numbers finally catch-up to the campus, causing lower CT and new member numbers? Will lower numbers even matter (housing/no housing)?

Wait, so VCU originally had them stacked like this:

fall 2011 ZTA
spring 2012 AxiD
fall 2012 ADPi
spring 2013 KD
fall 2013 Gamma Phi
2015 Phi Sig

Well that was just stupid. Each colony should be at least a year apart from the other one. They are already 2 years behind with the ADPi colony.

I wonder if ADPi or any of the other chapters will just "pull out" due to how long it is taking.

The VCU timeline does exhibit immense naivete. As a follow-on question, given the delays, can the CPC revisit the decisions in the future as being stale?

By contrast, when NCState expanded following DG's colonization, the extension letters (posted back when on the NCSU Greek website) explicitly stated that should colonization of one of the specific groups not occur by an outside date, the next group would move up and the vacant slot reopen. (None of the NCSU stacked groups have missed their assigned target dates thus far.)

And let's not forget that AOII colonized in 2008 and AEPhi in 2009.

I don't understand why they simply didn't stack three a semester until they could compete with IU ....

Exactly! How else could they get that quota of 27 last year to a manageable number?

University of Arizona:There is no available (for sale) space on First or Second Streets to build. Not that anyone could afford it if there was a lot. That's the major roadblock to expansion of the NPC sororities. Simply put: can't be competitive without a facility. There are some alternatives being explored and there's nothing to report yet.

Alpha Chi Omega is refurbishing their facility and the chapter can take possession in August 2014, from what I have been told. Alpha Chi's facility is a block and a half further east on First Street and while that doesn't negatively impact the fraternities that are also located close by, somehow it does seem to impact the sororities.

Not sure that any of the fraternities would be willing to sell, all things considered with property on the campus. And honestly, would probably want to demolish any fraternity and build from the ground up. That takes millions.

No idea what's going on at ASU with housing. First I heard of it was here on GC.

This is the information that I had on the VCU Expansion....

Alpha Delta Pi Colony Fall 2013 (pushing from the original 2012)
Kappa Delta Colony Fall 2014
Phi Sigma Sigma Gamma Sigma 1979-2011/Colony 2015
Gamma Phi Beta Colony 2015/2016