That just makes me hope that the daughter ends up marrying an agnostic tattoo artist or Pauly D or something.

:eek:

Just :eek:

How incredibly rude!

Wow. Aside from that being rude, it is also incredibly demeaning. The last time my mother dragged me away from something was when I was 5.

It was rough at HOGG this year. There were many mothers that were behaving like they were disgusted with the process. They forget it is not their process. I understand it is emotional but they have to understand it is not their journey. The best thing a mom can do in a situation like that is tell her daughter to give it a shot and make the best of it. Honestly, if the chapter was "that bad" then the mother should have advised the daughter to SIP. Yes, the daughter would have gotten the call but it would have been private and not a public circus of a few jeers among the cheers. Because honestly, they stick out like sore thumbs.

All of this is just so sad. I work with chapters that are are top recruiting chapters, some in the middle, and some that are not. I just want to see every chapter have success, pledge great women, and have fantastic bid days.

Hearing jeers on bid day is something that I can not process.

Pinapple, I always enjoy your commentary on UT recruitment. I do think that larger number of OOS PNMs at schools like Alabama and Ole Miss have helped ease the strict "tiers" at these schools...it does not seem to be happening in Austin. I hate it for the Greek system, because it is not growing significantly like many other campuses.

WTH? Are you for real? I am trying to picture this scene in my mind and, well, I just can't.:eek:

I can't either. But that chapter dodged a bullet. They won't have to deal with them for the next four years.

Oh. Hell. To. The. No
I can't even :eek:

Help erase...no, but OOS are more accepting. My rec girl at Bama was extremely happy to get a New Row house and loved them all of the way through recruitment. Parents were thrilled for her, period. However, she is already sick of the stigma of classmates reminding her that she is "New Row". At least she is smart enough to realize how immature her classmates are.

I am afraid that the tiers at Ole Miss & Alabama are carved in stone. Had the tablets given to Moses been carved in the same stone, they wouldnt' have broken when he threw them.

Among the people who care, absolutely. But with the surge in OOS less PNMS care and/or tend to be more open minded about the houses. They'd rather be Greek than drop out over tiers.

Not quite. There's a fair amount of PNMs who will take, say, New Row chapters or their equivalent at other SEC schools because in their home state, those are the top chapters and they plan to go back after graduation. Many girls do come to the SEC and not care about tiers (they never knew what tiers were anyway) but if one looks at where new members come from for each chapter, it's obvious.

Many people predicted this when certain states restricted their admissions to flagship universities.

I remembered seeing a lot of California girls on the Alpha Phi bid list at Alabama. I went back and counted and came up with 12. I'd say that supports the theory.

I have to agree that OOS pushes at some Universities are making the tiers at some greek systems a little less firm than years past. But I also agree, that traditions die hard....if they even die at all.

At UT, most everyone knows the Big 6 is alive and well. The issue I have with the Big 6 is that one or two of these Chapters, IMO have been on the decline over the last 5 years while one or two of the others (also Big 6) have solidified their position by doing brilliant recruiting and looking past "what always had been". This is it where it gets really interesting. The chapters that again IMO are "slipping" have no idea internally that they are loosing their status inside the Greek Community because they are inside. It is the people that advise, mentor and aid these chapters that see the writing on the wall. But their mommas think they are number one, they tell their friends who tell their daughters....blah blah blah. That is simply how old money works.

All the while right down the street, chapters that are considered "mid-tier" at UT are making strides to not care what anyone else thinks. Yes, they pledge legacies, and they honor that tie, but at the same time, they honor diversity and understand that 95% of learning at UT comes from learning from each other. As I observed these chapters, and as a person that has seen the backlash on the entitlement generation, you would think someone, somewhere would celebrate the fact that there are some young women in leadership roles (and let me be more specific and say evaluation committees) and write an article on the good they are doing to embrace the trend toward diversity at UT and their willingness to smash stereotypes of what a typical sorority women is.

The Big 6 six started with an article written over 30 years ago and frankly I would be embarrassed that my biggest claim to fame was a gold bangle and a car in the parking lot that daddy bought.(A focus point of that article) Women at UT celebrate so many other accomplishments from being in top honors programs, to being Presidents of other student organizations, to being valedictorians, and raising money for charity. Shouldn't Panhellenic women seek out these strong, motivated and diverse women to take their chapter by Bevo's horns and move it in a direction that is more in keeping with current trends in our societies? I am not at all saying that there is not a place for your "typical blonde cheerleader education major" (Forgive the stereotype....but I am drawing on this exact stereotype for this example), what I am saying is that UT stopped recruiting that exact type of person a long time ago and started believing in, highly intelligent, STEM, honors program and business women to come to its University, so shouldn't the Greek System embrace this change in who is who at UT?

I also ran across a picture of a group of women that was taken at bid day from one chapter. These women are team members of the Texas 4000. (I think what really amazed me is that 5 women from one house are on this team. From what I know around 80-90 members ride each year...that is a pretty large percentage from one sorority. So does this house seek these women, or are their recruiting practices such that women like these are attracted to this chapter??...just some food for thought) This team rides their bikes from Austin to Anchorage Alaska each year to raise money for cancer research. Talk about strong women. Strong Greek Women. Beautiful, physically in amazing shape and yet, not in a Big 6 House. These women exemplify what type of sorority women anyone with Panhellenic ties should be looking for.

That is simply an example of what I observe and see at UT. Will it ever go away. Doubtful. Will there be groups of women who seek out other women who will blaze paths of greatness? Of course. And the truth is these movers and shakers will come from Mid-Tier, Big 6 and any other house at UT. For a strong women will define her chapter, not the other way around.

If every woman everywhere would understand and believe that, we wouldn't have tiers or weak recruiting chapters at any of our schools. Unfortunately, the men seem to be the only ones that get this.

The men are just as bad.

Or worse. I have heard college men telling PNMs which sororities they should join. Heck, they were doing it back in the dark ages when I rushed.

She can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe 33girl is referring to how men perceive their individual influences on their own chapter; not how they influence sorority recruitment.

By the way, if PNMs believed that - that a strong woman will define her chapter, not the other way around - then PNMs wouldn't listen to the men who try to tell them which chapter to join.

Too many PNMs look at Bid Day as the Finish Line, the prize... when really it is just a mile marker and the process of developing as sisters is just beginning. It is sad when a girl won't give a chapter a chance because she thinks the Bid is all that she had set out to accomplish.

As mothers and alumnae we need to help PNMs look further down the road so they remain open to accepting a Bid and letting the process continue to work.

Yes, and yes.

This is beautiful. (It also sounds like a really good idea for a recrutment t-shirt. :) )

I have a question maybe Pineapple or someone familiar with UT can answer. If a PNM attends 3 pref parties and lists them all on her bid card, isn't she guaranteed to match to one of them with the system that is in place now? I know that's the case at many other schools but I wasn't sure if UT adhered to that? I have a rec girl that it happened to and when her mom told me, I just didn't know what to say.

The process is called RFM. Virtually all campuses with Panhellenic do use this policy, including UT. RFM has been discussed here hundreds of times. Just do a Google search (Greekchat + RFM) for all the information you ever wanted to know about RFM. :)

Although nothing is every a 100% guarantee, yes, a girl should receive a bid IF she went to all of the pref parties that she was invited to AND she listed all of those chapters on her bid card after attending pref. I am really skeptical if your rec girl did not receive a bid after following this process. Sometimes girls won't admit that they did not follow those rules. What do you think?

Any chance that she matched to her last choice & chose not to accept, but didn't want to tell her mom?

Hypothetically, if Suzie PNM went to all 3 of her pref parties, and listed all 3 houses on her pref card, but was low enough on the B list of every house that she didn't match, wouldn't she still be placed as a quota addition because she maximized her options?

i.e. isn't it basically impossible not to receive a bid if you honestly maximize your options, barring some crazy info coming to light during/after pref?

Exactly right. This is why I question if things really worked out the way CMDelta was told. I think something isn't right with the information that she got....

Just making sure :)

Now I am curious. What do you ladies think would happen in this totally hypothetical situation?

Polly PNM goes to 3 pref parties. At Omicron Mu Gamma and Lambda Omicron Lambda , she says so sweetly, "Ya'll are just the lovliest girls, but I just know that I already have a home at Kappa Mu Alpha." She probably even wears KMA's colors & a little pair of their mascot earrings to all 3 pref parties, just to be sure everybody knows where she intends to pledge.

Now because she knows the rules, she puts all 3 chapters on her bid card, smiling smugly to herself because she knows that no way will she get a bid from OMG or LOL. She made sure of that.

I think we can understand that she might not make it onto the bid list at all at OMG or LOL. Even if she does, it will be as the very last PNM on the list.

And even at KMA, she falls below quota, way down on the 2nd list. They were unimpressed with her wearing their colors, mascot & the little tiara with their letters that she pulled out of her purse as she entered the pref party.

So.... does she get a QA bid at KMA, even though she very purposefully and clearly tanked any chance of getting a bid at OMG and LOL?

Theoretically she could end up at OMG or LOL if either of the two have not made quota once KMA's first list fills. If all three have made quota and she still has not matched, she could be placed in any of the three based on the campus policy. Some campuses give the PNMs their first choice when possible. Some campuses give the QA to the smallest chapters first which may be OMG or LOL. So, yes, there is a pretty good chance should could end up in one of the other two, just as easily as KMA.

LOL dying :p

But, good question. I thought QAs were determined by the RFM specialists and advisors and that sometimes they were placed with their first choice, sometimes they were placed with the group that had the smallest total number.

Personally, I think QAs should be done such that she goes where she's ranked the highest.

Ignore the possibility of her moving up b/c enough girls from the A list were matched elsewhere...

Polly is on the 2nd bid list for all of the groups.
She's 30th on OMG's B-list
She's 8th on LOL's B-list
She's 12th on KMA's B-list

So, she matches to LOL

I wonder if OMG or LOL have a justifiable basis for refusing to offer her a bid or "refusing" the QA? Just a rhetorical question. I know we don't really have much of a basis for an answer for that one....

In this example it matters who she preffed first KMA, if her number comes up in the computer and they still have open spots, she is matched with them. Once they fill, it goes to her second choice OMG. If OMG is filled, then we go to her third choice, LOL. If LOL is still open that is where she will match.

I was in a situation where we hand matched the bids. It's not as complicated as it sounds, most of the time.

I can see both sides, that she's being honest with the chapters about where she really wants to be, but on the other hand, that she's kind of being rude to LOL and OMG. Not sure what the best thing to do would be in a real life situation. When I went through recruitment my Pi Chis told us to keep our "favorites" to ourselves, and to not tell the houses our other pref party, etc.

Also, I mean.... if they invited her to pref night, obviously the liked her enough for her to potentially become a sister.

Well, I was assuming that since she's a QA, she was not matched during regular matching, that the groups had all already filled their quota. Is that incorrect?

The intricacies of RFM confuse me. Every time I think I understand, some other situation comes up.

QAs are matched at the regular time. They are just the names the computer tells you are unmatchable. Usually there are only a handful. You look at their preferences and decide as a group which way to go. 1. Match PNMs with their first choice even if it make a huge difference in the pledge classes. 2. Match PNMs to the smallest chapter they ranked. 3. Attempt to see if all of the non matched girls can be evenly slotted into chapters based on how many women and different chapters are involved.

That is exactly the hypothetical that I posed... Polly was either very low on all 3 bid lists (or perhaps not on the bid list for OMG or LOL at all). All 3 houses filled before any group got to her name. She made sure that she was very low on 2 of the lists because of her behavior at those pref parties.

Personally, I do not think that she deserves a QA bid to KMA. I think she violated the spirit of RFM by trying to game the system.

Is this really RFM? Isn't this just plain old bid matching? I thought RFM was just to do with who got invited back to parties and the percentages of attendees that the chapter had to cut, not matching bids.

I mean there were QAs before RFM came to be...I didn't think that the fact groups are using RFM is what changed how they are worked, I thought the two just happened to come into practice at the same time.

Unless of course, OMG and/or LOL know EXACTLY what she's doing and put her on their first bid list just to pull her chain and know she will decline the bid, and therefore snootypants gets no sorority.

The change with RFM is that QA's are more or less unlimited now. They used to be 5% of quota.

As for the hypothetical situation, I'm not sure how many groups adjust their bid lists after prefs. Many do them prior to pref and only make changes in extreme circumstances. I don't want to get too much into MS, but it's obvious to me that, if the XYZ's are out at the bar twenty minutes after the last pref party concludes, then XYZ did their bid lists after second invitational.

Unless there was a major character concern brought by all three chapters to Panhellenic AFTER pref, then the version of the girl's story is not correct.

Thanks everyone for such great examples and understanding. I thought I knew how it worked and just wanted to confirm. Not sure if it matters but this PNM was a sophomore who was unable to complete last year's recruitment week due to illness. So she really wanted to be involved in Greek life. It was my understanding that she really liked all 3 she attended on Pref day as they are all GREAT chapters at UT. But, you ladies are right - something sounds fishy to me.

Just wanted to post an update - the mom gave me wrong info. I finally heard from the PNM and she was released by all 3 BEFORE pref parties. I heard there were more sophomores going through this year at UT and not enough spots.