Well. guess what---he called last night. I was out(actually at an AOTT alum dinner), but when I got in my car and checked my cell phone, he had called there, but had not left a message. When I got home, he had left a message on my answering machine saying he had been in Chicago since Thursday(no reason why) and to give him a call when I got a chance.
Okay, this does get points because he did not have my cell phone number but it is on my answering machine, which means he took the time to write it down and call that, after he couldn't reach me on my home phone.
I didn't call him(I wasn't home till after 11--20 AOTT alums and a Mexican resturant with margarita's does not make for an early night!!) but I will tonight, while thinking of all of the advice you guys have so readily given. I guess I didn't mean for it to come across that I didn't like him, just because I was busy, but maybe thats how he saw it. The crappy thing is my mom is coming into town this weekend(well, its not crappy because I LOVE my mom and I miss her!), so I have the family thing and then I am going to Charlotte next weekend to have an AOTT reunion with some of my sisters that has been planned for about 3 months. So, its not that I don't want to see this guy--I am just busy in January. February is MUCH better. But lets hope this guy likes the idea of a Thursday night dinner or something.
On another note--I COMPLETELY AGREE with everyone that said the guy should have some idea what they want to do for the date, at least the first one. I don't care if its just that you LOVE Chili's margarita's and you want one, so you pick Chili's. Just please have some idea where you want to go or do before you call. It is VERY IMPRESSIVE. I just want a guy to take me to see Black Hawk Down. Just think guys--2 and half hours of watching Josh Hartnett, other yummy soilders, and a tear jerker movie. If that is not a guranteed good night kiss, I don't know what is!!

This guy is going through a lot of work!!! I hope you two can
at least make it to "kickoff"!

Thanks MOM!!! Me too

Okay, I disagree. You make women sound like a bunch of losers with nothing going on in their lives, so that they have hours on end to sit around and discuss some guy that they don't even know very well. I have never behaved like that in my life. If I had a date with some guy, I would tell my friends, sure, but I could not possibly care less whether they had anything to say about him (unless they knew him to be a rapist or something truly evil). I certainly would not allow a date to be destroyed by a friend "going ewwww." There are women out there who have lives and better things to do than discuss a date, and who are independent and make their own decisions without being completely dependent upon and influenced by their friends.

Also, if a woman wants to pay half, what's the problem? It would be a HUGE turnoff to me to be on a date and have the guy raise a big stink about splitting the costs. To me, that's sexist and probably a warning sign that he might try to argue with me about other things that I want to do. A date is no more real because a guy pays.

I agree with you 100%, valkyrie! :D Well said. :cool:

Has anyone read "The Rules" out there? What did you think of it?

Val and DZRose, I agree with you. Once I accept a date with someone, that's it. My friends would never think to say anything nasty (again, unless the guy was a stalker :eek:, etc.), because it's pretty obvious that if I had doubts myself, I would not have accepted the date in the first place. Duh! What kind of lame ass would I be if I let my friends "ewww" ruin a potential hot date. :rolleyes: If anything, I'd be determined to prove her wrong!

I find it unfortunate that men really think that most women disect them in groups. I mean, I'm sure that some women are like this, but only those who are without a backbone and extremely impressionable, not to mention bitchy.

So Optimist Prime did you call her? What happened? I need an update in order to know if I gave you good advice.

hey Cream
 

Yeah I called. Asked her if she wanted to go out. She was like "tonight?" And i was like "well whenever." Then asked her for something specific (lunch-best I can do as campus is the only thing in town.) She told me she is real busy, but to call early next week.

I don't think I'd call her next week. Not to throw you into "gamesmanship" or anything, but if you are really interested, hold off and contact her the FOLLOWING week. If she gives a similar response, you may want to look elsewhere. (Just an initial thought)

GREAT advice, justamom. I was about to say the same thing. Because she didn't appear 100% interested, it's better to wait longer and not to seem overeager. Most women hate that.

UPDATE!! So, he was in Chicago on business, which is cool. I mean, I wish he would have called to say that but oh well. We talked last night and this is my conclusion--he is not a player, but just playing it safe. What is the hard thing is I am the same way. I NEVER want to put my heart out there because I am scared of being hurt and I think he is the same way. BUT here is the good news--when we were talking last night, just as we were hanging up, I told him to give me a call sometime next week, so we could get together and he was like "yeah, that would be great". And then he says "or if you get home one night and you feel like doing something, just call me--I like hearing from you, too!". Okay, THAT made me feel SOOOOOOO much better because I HATE calling guys(I always feel like I am chasing them and my mom always told me that real ladies don't call boys). but the fact that he specifically came out and said to call him and he likes hearing from me made me feel better if I do want to call him. So, that is my update. I think this is just a VERY slowly progressing relationship and take it from there. Hey--its better to have a slowly progressing relationship than no relationship at all. Thanks everyone for listening!!
And BILLY--I say do call her back. I know I am crazy busy right now and sometimes it comes off as not wanting to see the person, but you really do. Give it one more try and see what happens but make it flexible. GOOD LUCK!!

Congrats AOPiLaLa! Call him sooner than later and things will just get easier from there.

Re: hey Cream
 

ok.

That is a really sucky way to ask a girl out.
Girls admire confidence that is short of cockiness (and what they consider cocky will be determiend by their self-confidence).

So its kind of vague to call a girl up and ask if she wants to go out. Or even to say whenever.

Always call with a plan. Ask to her a place at a certain time, perferably pretty quick.

" Lets catch a cup of something hot later tonight, I need a break from all the stuff I am doing, I am so beyond busy."

In one non-rambling sentence you have indicated you want to see her, you are decisive, and you are probably busier than she is. Many people associate busy with a kind of social importance.

If she is like no I have too much to do tonight. You say, are you sure you won't want a cup of cofee later tonight? I bet it will be calling your name. Make sure you say it in a flirty way, In fact your whole conversation should be flirty. Not dead or matter of fact.

If she asks you what you are going to do later: tell her you are going to work on Fraternity stuff and then take a break later, you had just been hoping SHE could go because you wanted to spend some time with her.

You are telling her here that you still have a social life without her, and will go places alone (or worse with someone) if she doesn't go. Girls hate to miss out or be replaced. And you still made it clearyou anted to see her.

Final step: Don't hang up that phone without a future date! You know it looks like we are both really busy, why don't we plan something fun, like dinner and some mintiature golf, for later this week? Name two or three days in the next coming week that you have free time, and we'll match it up with my calendar also.

OH well good luck:)

perfect
 

James,
you are stunning and soo funny!!
You should be a counsellor or psychologist!! :D

thanks guys. :) I walked right past her today. I didn't feel like turning around. Oh well.

Billy, I think that was a good move. Women often seem to go for nice guys as good friends, but dating...., nah. So, no more Mr. Nice Guy - at least sometimes....

O.P. - There are probably a hundred women on your campus who would have jumped at the opportunity to be with you so don't let this get you down. I agree with JAM and James's advice. Actually, if you ignore her a little, it might pique her interest. You don't have to be rude, but you know the routine. For example, let her see you talking to another woman and give her a nonchalant, "Hey, how are you?" She might wonder, "What's going on with them?" A few days later ask her out again the way James described. AHH the games we play. :p

James - I might have to give you the rest of my number now. I might like a cup of something hot later tonight. :cool:

LOL, feel free, I am a big hot beverage guy. I live about two hours away fom The City (NYC). I'll meet you half way ;).

We should get some of these N.E. Greek chatters together like they have been doing all across the country. But people from the NE are notoriously unfriendly so it might be harder.

OMG, we should have a NE GC get together! It would be cool to see the faces behind the 'names'. I am a friendly New Yorker, no attitude at all. :) I'm sure a bunch of GC people might be interested in hangin' in New York.
Well, I'm off to have a hot beverage! :D

this is off topic, but James what part of NJ do you live in? I used to live in Camden County.

Hey Cream - "The Rules"
 

Hey Cream, go here to see a thread about The Rules. I have read Books 1 and 2 (haven't read the 3rd one). I do agree with some of the principles in the book, such as that a woman should maintain a full, busy life, rather than expect a man to come and "fill it up" for her.

James, you are perfectly entitled to your opinion, and perhaps that strategy works for you. However, I know that if a guy tried that on me, I would most likely find him a little on the pushy side - as the tips you gave are right out of a sales manual. Confidence is GREAT, but I personally don't want to feel like I'm being cold called and forced/pressured into making a date that I would have to cancel later. It's my opinion that this approach might push away a lot of women - especially those who are "on the fence" about the guy who is calling. Anyway, this isn't to slam on you (so please don't interpret this as such), rather to give guys another perspective. Good luck, either way! :)

Carrie :D

I can appreciate not wanting to presured by a pushy guy, BUT, if you make a date and then cancel, you suck. That is the absolute worst thing to do to a guy. It is comprable to a guy you were dating sleeping with your sister. None of his friends will ever like you again. Pledges to his fraternity will be told either the full story, or not to ask, and will generally avoid you. Then will have friends who are in other fraternities (at college, from back home, on greekchat, etc) and will tell them and then it keeps growing and growing. You be blacklisted by people who knew him, and everyone else will have a heads up and be wary and will think you are cheating on them, or will be suspicous.

Other than that, I agree. I'm not exactly Mr. Hot Shot and when I try to be I look like a jack ass. So I try natural confidence.

Billy

Hmmm is that true? I was thinking of cancelling my date tonight... I won't, because its after 3pm now and I think that's rude--but I've wanted to cancel all day. I'm just not feeling it with this guy-- I like him, he's fun and nice-- but that's it, and I am exhausted and I broke my toe this morning and my ex boyfriend's wedding pics are in a national magazine that came out today and was just generally thinking it would be better to cancel than subject this guy to my funky mood.

Amy,

Yeah, its pretty much true. However, if you POSTPONE instead of cancel, then that is okay. But you might want to see if can make you feel better and get you out of it but if you're not feeling him at all, then maybe he will misread and stop asking you out because of it. Eitherway, it is like, so hurtful when a girl outright says "no, no date tonight. or ever. I don't know what I was thinking when I said yes."

Hmmmm, yeah I would never be out and out rude about it... But I have been on the fence about this guy for too long. I just don't want it to go anywhere, and its getting to a point where I'm having to come up with creative reasons why he can't come in my apt after a date. lol

Billy - Huh...well, that's nice. :rolleyes:

I can understand someone being miffed if a woman cancelled a date last minute for no good reason or was a bitch about it.
But, it sounds like what you're telling me is that if I make a date with someone, and cancel it for any reason, that I am a bitch and basically am committing social suicide. If that's the case, I think what you wrote is bullshit. Not only have I cancelled a date and not suffered any of the repercussions you mentioned, but I actually know quite a few women who have lived through it as well. :D In fact, I broke a date with a guy in the very same fraternity as the guy I am currently dating. You wanna know why? Because I didn't think it was fair that I would go out on a date with someone, when I knew that I was extremely interested in someone close to him. Can you imagine what a fiasco it would have been had I started something with this other guy, and then gone on to my current boyfriend??? I don't think so. Thankfully he was mature about it and ended up helping me get together with the other guy and I can guarantee that if we get married, he will be at our wedding. Probably more details than you wanted to know, but I felt like including them to prove my point. I think it's sad that there might be fraternities that would blacklist a woman just because she didn't want to lead a guy on. UGH. :rolleyes:

Anyhoo, I don't know if you were just trying to prove a point or if you were serious, but I don't take kindly to being told that "I suck" because I might break a date with a pushy mo'fo' who won't get off the phone until I promise to bear his children.
:rolleyes:

Hmm, I am rereading my post and I am not quite sure which part is pushy . . . Leaving out all the subtext of analysis, the post says: call her sooner rather than later. Ask her to a specific type of thing that is not time intensive, and if she is unable to attend, say you want to see her later in the week and try to give her the choice of days.


I am not sure there really is another way to ask a girl on a date. Unless the gril is really not comfortable with a direct approach to dating. i.e. she wants to just hang among mutual friends. Which is not dating its hanging.

I can definitely see a woman that is "on the fence" with a guy being put in an awkward spot. But honestly doing it this way cues the guy in on whether the girl in sitting on that fence.

The more we like somone the more we want to see them and you can tell really quick how interested a person is by how much and how quickly they want to see you. There have been girls that liked me that I woud rather play in traffic, than go out with. There are other girls that I have been so interested in I would have given up food.

Its really not in the best interest of a guy to pursue a girl that is lukewarm. Instead he could be putting that effort into a girl that is a lot more interested, rather than wasting time and energy.

I know you are slamming my reply :), but I would be genuinely interested in another approach that doesn't leave everything in some wierd Schrodinger's Box of relationships where no one really knows what is going to happen or where things are going. Kind of like the foundation of this thread. They guy was so not pushy he almost made the poor girl believe he wasn't interested. A simple . . . lets set a date and this thread would never have happened.

Take care,

James

That is what i meant :D. Out of curiosity though, what would happen if I had sex with my girlfriend's sister??

I give up. I'll never understand women. :( Plus I'm turning 30 next month.

Correction to this post: its supposed to read " I know you are NOT slamming my reply. just clarifying.

OK, well I went out with that guy tonight and it was OK. It was fun, and he is NICE. Which is why I didn;t want to go in the first time -- lol, not because he is NICE< but because I feel like by continuing to go out with him I am leading him to think it is more than it is...? Does that make sense?

And not to banish him to the dreaded "friend" category, but... sigh. He is NICE. I am just not into him and I DO have to admit to not being the best at gracefully backing out of things...

Amy, I dont get that. There must be something else. Whats wrong with a guy being too nice. I'll never get that. Its like men and chivalry these days. Women just cant appreciate it like it was in the old days. My advice is to drop the guy now hard or its going to lead to a whole lot of hurt and trouble. Especially if your not into him. Not like my advice matters though. LOL

I don't thnk Amy said she didn't like him because he was too nice. She is just sayin he is very nice, which probably makes it harder to break the news to him. People keep forgeting that no matter how "nice" you are ( and I am not sure what that means anyway) there still has to be some type of physical attraction or sparks to seperate a lover from a friend. And isn't that usually the diference? A friend is a nice person we like but usually don't sleep with?

But Amy, if you keep leading the poor guy on the least you can do is escalate the physoical relationship for him. Because you are the one creating the expectation. I hope he is not spending a lot of money on you.

So which would be easier, telling him you don't like him and offending him (and ladies mostly guys ae offended instead of being hurt) or sleeping with him. You might not want to answer that in a public forum.

Kev,

People usually take the high road and say they don't want to break up because they don't want to hurt the other person . . . but if we were all a little more honest with ourselves we would realize that we don't want to break up because we don't want to deal with the scene.

We don't like direct uncomfortable emotional confrontation, the thought is pretty bad. We don't want to feel guilty or defensive. Also, a lot of pople don't really want to be alone so they second guess themselves when it comes to burning a bridge.

As far as the player vs. Nice guy or gentlman, a lot of people seem to think these are two completely different sides of the spectrum.

You can be smooth and still be a nice gentleman, and you will pick up a lot of women that way, just as many as if you were the proverbial jerk. But if you are wishy washy, your just not going to date as much. It sucks but its true. The meek may inherit the earth, but probably not until everyone else is finished with it anyway.

We should never expect a new universe to be born to make up for our lack of skills in the existing one.

OK I should clarify a few things... :)

One, he is not spending $$ on me. That's part of the problem. Not that someone has to drop a lot of cash--but this guy is all about the "come over and bring a pizza with you" thing. The dinner he took me out to last night was the first meal he bought me in 6 weeks. So I guess I feel like a pretentious bitch by saying this bothers me--but it does. I'm 32 and I need someone who is a bit more organzied and established in their career.

Two, his being nice isn't the problem. Its what I really like about him. He is genuine and unpretentious and sweet. I am just not attracted to him for a number of reasons, the most important one being I can run circles around him intellectually and my idea of a good time is not having to stop and define every 4th word for him.

Three, we just don't have much in common. I'm a writer and screenwriter. He doesn't go to the movies, doesn't like movies, etc. That's just one example, there are more. It bothers me that he didn't go to college--and that makes me feel like a bitch, but, it does bother me.

And yes, better for me to end it now and not prolong it-- but I never know quite how to end things. I do think he knows where I'm at and where I'm coming from and wouldn't be suprised by it, but that doesn't make it any easier for me.

I like him as a person, I don't want to be his girlfriend--that's the bottom line.

:)
Amy

Amy,
I think that you need to end it. There is nothing bitchy about having standards. Now telling him the reasons that you aren't interested in him would be. Six weeks is the point where things turn into a relationship not just casual dating. Tell him that you like him and respect him as a friend, but that you think you don't have what it takes to be a couple. It's hard, I know, but in the long run he keeps his dignity and self-respect. And maybe you have a friend. Good luck.

James,

I understand where your coming from. It doesnt mean that I agree with it or like it. I just dont understand why you have to read into women and why they give you such a hard time to just tell you how it is. I can understand how things can be uncomfortable but I would rather someone be upfront with me then to string me along and leave me hoping. Its just the way things are I guess.

Amy,

I'm sorry. I really shouldnt have gotten into it. Its none of my business and again I'm sorry. Still in my rut. :(