my comment is about the book Our Kind of People by Mr Graham....

Please do not spend your hard earned money reading this crap....

Im a member of a NPHC organization....the first couple of chapters of the book are okay... i guess they give you a little insight into organizations like Jack and Jill, Boule etc....(but honestly, all of this black elite group stuff bugs me....because we complain all the time about division division division, but yet people are still interested in joining elites groups among our own people that discriminate on family status, or name, or position held in govenment...come on people when are we going to learn from the mistakes of the majority) when I reached the section focusing of Black organizations, I was disgusted and threw away the book, mainly because of the content. The facts were wrong and way off for my organization and the other ones also...I have friends in all the other 7 (i dont know any iotas), and thus i know a little bit of history, and not just history, but facts...and his facts were way off....Analogy----it seemed like an old fraternity guy talking about the frat/soros on his old campus back in 1950-----excuse, Mr Graham but a lot of things have changed, and each organization has its own personality, enlarged membership and prestige......this is 2001....the nine groups are pretty similiar these days and homogenous.....

I second that, he didn't do a very good job of researching most of them. The chapter on Zeta Phi Beta was particularly short in comparison to the others.

------------------
*selah*

I recently read this book. I sensed that he wishes he was in the mainstream of the elite instead of on the fringes.




------------------
MCCOYRED
Mu Psi '86
BaltCo Alumnae

Dynamic...Salient...Temperate...Since 1913

Speaking from the perspective of a non-greek letter member, I think that the book "The Divine Nine" was a nice reference book for those who are interested in Historically Black Fraternities and Sororities, in regards to membership and history.
Although, I do agree that some of the featured chapters were a little shorter than others, I dont think that we should look at the book as a way to "Tell All". If I am not mistaken, every organization in that book has SOME TYPE of documentation of their history, and if "The Divine Nine", in essence, gave readers the drive to do more research on their own.
I must admit, right after I read "The Divine Nine", I felt inclined to read about other organizations. Not because I was so much interested in obtaining membership in any of them, but I was interested in finding out how they played a role in Black History, and, lets face it, all organizations in the divine nine play an INTEGRAL part in Black History, a part of history that does not get much recognition.
Many organizations in the Divine Nine have put people through college during the depression, played a hefty role in the Civil Rights Movement, and are responsible for many issues that affects blacks today. I think it was well written, and maybe the author did misconstrue information, but that only gives prospective members reading the divine nine more drive to do more research on that particular organization.
I think that all members of the Divine Nine should be honored their organization was featured in the book instead of being upset. As I previously mentioned, each organization played an huge role in the shaping of African Americans and our history, and that's the main reason why one should feel honored.

To Suntzu1963-
I dont think you have much spreading to do. As a brother of Iota Phi Theta Fraternity, Inc., I am quite sure that you know that yourr Fraternity is the fastest growing organization in the country. Congrats Iotas, and keep up the good work!

Lyttle
Iota Sweetheart:> )

I had the (dis)pleasure of reading "Our Kind of People" about a year ago. First off, it didn't tell me anything I didn't know. Secondly, as mccoyred said, it seemed as if he wishes he were a member of THAT elite, as opposed to a Johnny-come-lately. As a result, the book took a turn of "sucking up" somewhat.

much respect...

i guess my post is a combined question and response to the anger about "Our Kind of People" by Lawrence Otis Graham.

he is also the author of "Member of the Club : Reflections on Life in a Racially Polarized World" which is about his infiltration of clubs that discriminate along racial/religious/ethnic etc. lines. he infiltrated by becoming a waiter. it was very interesting because he was pointing out that black executives are being stopped at a type of glass ceiling that we do not continue to believe that exists. the ceiling being that many top white executives who belong to these clubs make their deals there. and obviously because blacks and other groups are not allowed membership they are left in the cold, so to speak. anyway it was an interesting read. oh and for the record this book was not written in the 50's. *he's not that old* it was published in 1996...not that long ago...shit ain't changed that much huh?

but back to my question and comment.

i am curious as to why some on this thread found the book offensive? is it because we do not believe that this activity of elitism by our people still or ever happens? is it because we see graham as someone who wants to fit in but doesn't? does it bother us that there are black people in the upper echelon of society that could care less about blacks who do not have "ties" to them?

these were some of the issues that i wrestled with when i read the book. quite frankly i identified with graham on many levels. being someone who is bi-racial adopted into a black upper middle class family...i felt completely like the outsider. even tho i had the so-called "good hair/light skin" i was still half-white therefore not black enough. my mother who is a member of a Divine Nine sorority, 100 black women, and other service organizations found some of the same roadblocks because she came from a poor background. i have visited some of those houses that are similar to what graham describes where the young people talk about what year their families cars are and all that. when i attended cotillion, on scholarship and fundraising, that was sponsored by my mothers Divine Nine sorority i was looked down upon because i was not a member of jack and jill and my mother was not a Link. it was only when i appeared with my mothers best friends son, who is a member of a Divine Nine fraternity that i was given respect.

i said all this to say that your reactions are justified. but instead of being angered at graham i would suggest being angered at the group that perpetuates this "separation". the organizations that he describes have not died. they continue....they thrive...the new and old rich continue to desire their children and themselves to belong to these groups. as graham said these are the groups that you belong to if you want to "be a part of the black elite".

now the disclaimer is that not all members of these groups are elitist. but there are a great many who are.

sure graham wants to be a member...*he is a member of sigma pi phi (The Boule)...the elite black professional mens fraternal organization* why shouldn't he? he lives in that world. his children must associate with those children. he must work with those men. his wife must organize with those socialites. its something that he feels is important.

but i think he also wrote that book for another reason. he wanted to show black america another side of black america. he may not realize it but he was showing that although we have come so far...we have a long way to go. we must start with us...before we can ever educate them.

well i'm sorry for the long post. just something to think about.

peace,
lastpoet



[This message has been edited by lastpoetnsite (edited April 07, 2001).]

THANKS SIS!!!!!!!!!!!! *SMILE*
THANK YOU FOR REPRESENTING THE FAMILY TO THE FULLEST!




------------------
Suntzu 1963
Member of Iota Phi Theta Fraternity, Inc.
4-FALL-99
UVA Colony
OW OW
LIPTTDID
W.W.N.O.R.T.

http://www.angelfire.com/va2/suntzuipt4uva

-"Nineteen sixty-three is not an end, but a beginning. And those who hope that the Negro needed to blow off steam and will now be content, will have a rude awakening if the nation returns to business as usual."

-Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

On the contrary, I LOVE the fact that there is an entire class of wealthy, educated Blacks in this country. I also think that it would be a mistake to say that classism doesn't exist. My problem is that the author appears envious instead of appreciative.

------------------
MCCOYRED
Mu Psi '86
BaltCo Alumnae

Dynamic...Salient...Temperate...Since 1913

much respect...

i agree mccoyred. he is envious. but he is envious for a good reason. in his book he talks about how he was just on the fringes of that elite society.

which is why i identified with him so much. he grew up knowing that he would be a tad bit...just not good enough to socialize with those that he admired. and once you are a child in that enviornment...and you still live in that enviornment as an adult you remember those painful experiences.

his writing the book was probably therapy for him...but maybe it was even a instruction manual for his children. he has probably made sure that they are in with those that he admires.

it is in some ways truly awe inspiring that there is a book written about our people that does not detail our destructive past, present and future. it was with pride that i read about those individuals who have felt the need to say..."we are black, wealthy, educated and proud of those facts" but it was still very depressing that they were not living up to the final piece of Dubois' talented tenth mantra..."reach back and uplift" a mere check will not do...there must be some connection.

peace,
lastpoet

Personally, I think bro Ross capitalized on an idea that was long overdue. I'm interested, however, in hearing from original ape.

As a non-member (and I say this for a reason) I was not impressed. I got this as a gift from an NPHC member, and my mentality was to focus on the organization I am interested in. So, when I read that section, I wasn't impressed. There was some stuff missing. Then, I decided to read about the other orgs, and that was interesting, but not scintillating.

As a thumbnail sketch of these histories, it's adequate, but I hope we weren't expecting this book to be the definitive authority?

How come the sororities end in inc.?

Red Hot, this topic should answer your question:
http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/...ML/000474.html

I found your answer in a search... http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif