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-   -   Paula Deen's use of the "N"-Word (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=134823)

MysticCat 06-21-2013 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sadfly (Post 2221937)
Yet people think that it is okay to ridicule her way of talking and it's not racist?

I wasn't aware that Southern is a race.

Quote:

Those that didn't like Paula before feel that they are justified (whether true or not) and those that supported her in the past will continue to do so.
Speaking as one who has always been a Paula Deen fan, I don't think it's that simple.

And I'm not sure this is the thread I'd be quoting Scarlet O'Hara in either, but maybe that's just me.

lovespink88 06-21-2013 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by agzg (Post 2221895)
To quote one of the collegians I met last weekend, "She's the conductor of the Hot Mess Express."

This is one of those rare moments that I literally LOL'd.

PiKA2001 06-22-2013 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticCat (Post 2221942)

And I'm not sure this is the thread I'd be quoting Scarlet O'Hara in either, but maybe that's just me.

Why do you know that?

MysticCat 06-22-2013 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PiKA2001 (Post 2221953)
Why do you know that?

Why do I know what? That I probably wouldn't quote "Gone With the Wind" in a thread about possible racism or racial insensitivity of someone who appears to have considered an antebellum wedding reception? Or that "tomorrow is another day" was Scarlet O'Hara's signature line, and the last line of the book and movie?

AOII Angel 06-22-2013 09:34 AM

Paula Deen-isms of a more current vintage.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3480720.html

AZTheta 06-22-2013 10:41 AM

Re: "Southern accent" or "Southern speech". There are multiple videos/articles/programs etc. available on this topic. I'd start with reading this one. There's a segment of our profession (speech-language pathology) that treats "dialect" or "accent reduction".

So, bias against "Southern speech" = racist? Perhaps not. But discriminatory? Evidence says yes.

GWTW seems an interesting choice in the context of this thread, IMO. Would strongly recommend that Ms. Deen read and study To Kill a Mockingbird for starters. She will now have plenty of free time, apparently.

“I think there's just one kind of folks. Folks.” Harper Lee.

AOII Angel 06-22-2013 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lovespink88 (Post 2221889)
Notification from my CNN app: "The Food Network says it "will not renew Paula Deen's contract when it expires at the end of this month."

Quote:

Originally Posted by AZTheta (Post 2221965)
Re: "Southern accent" or "Southern speech". There are multiple videos/articles/programs etc. available on this topic. I'd start with reading this one. There's a segment of our profession (speech-language pathology) that treats "dialect" or "accent reduction".

So, bias against "Southern speech" = racist? Perhaps not. But discriminatory? Evidence says yes.

GWTW seems an interesting choice in the context of this thread, IMO. Would strongly recommend that Ms. Deen read and study To Kill a Mockingbird for starters. She will now have plenty of free time, apparently.

“I think there's just one kind of folks. Folks.” Harper Lee.

I agree that there is discrimination based on accents, not just Southern. Accents can, however, improve your persona, especially in women. I for one find that my Southern accent works to my advantage in Arizona in my line of work. Patients find it warm and comforting. Paula Deen, I have always felt, plays up her accent to stress her Southerness. If it occasionally backfires on her, it has more frequently convinced non-Southerners that she must be really Southern. I occasionally get comments about my accent, which is fairly mild comparatively, but I get away with murder because I say things dripping with honey so I have no incentive to change. ;)

shirley1929 06-22-2013 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AZTheta (Post 2221965)
Re: "Southern accent" or "Southern speech". There are multiple videos/articles/programs etc. available on this topic. I'd start with reading this one. There's a segment of our profession (speech-language pathology) that treats "dialect" or "accent reduction".

So, bias against "Southern speech" = racist? Perhaps not. But discriminatory? Evidence says yes.

This thread is reminding me of this:

JEFF FOXWORTHY:
You know I mean some of the, the most intelligent people I've ever known talk like I do. In fact I used to do a joke about that, about you know the Southern accent, I said nobody wants to hear their brain surgeon say, 'Al’ight now what we're gonna do is, saw the top of your head off, root around in there with a stick and see if we can't find that dad burn clot.’

#onlythingiamcontributingtothisthreadbecauseithink pauladeenisamoron

LXA SE285 06-22-2013 12:30 PM

Screencap from the NBC affiliate here in Birmingham:

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18rm...g/k-bigpic.jpg

OPhiAGinger 06-22-2013 01:23 PM

I grew up in Texas and Georgia and I know first hand that what Southerners say in public does not always align with their private feelings. Even so, I was shocked as a teenager to realize my own beloved grandparents were comfortable using racial slurs around close friends and family. I started to challenge them on this and they reacted with bewilderment that almost equaled my own.

Then I had an epiphany: They were 60. I was a teenager. Very soon their generation would transfer power to my generation. There was no way I was going to change their views at this late stage of their life, so my energy was better spent on my own generation and on the next. And that's what I did. At my first professional job, a member of management told a racial joke in a social gathering that only include white employees. I politely asked him not to tell those kind of jokes around me, and that my great grandmother was black. (Not true as far as I know, but I wanted to shake him up.) He looked at my fair skin and blond hair and I could see the question marks dancing across his brain. I don't care if he believe me or not. It made him think twice before he just assumed that a whole room of white adults were as racist as he was.

In fifteen years or less, Paula Dean will be dead. She has already lost her public credibility and stage. But all this persecution is making her a martyr for the younger racists, which is just going to perpetuate it. Her empire is crumbling. The media needs to let it go before we make racism fashionable again in a certain segment of the population.

Mizeree I2K 06-22-2013 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin (Post 2221873)
Laughed? No... More like disbelief at how much we've changed in so short a time. This was only 50-60 years ago. The folks who used to be comfortable addressing someone as "N_ Jim" wouldn't dream of it today and only tell those stories to illustrate how we were, not how we are.

Short period of time? Really dude? It took a lot longer than 50-60 years of struggling. I'm talking over 400 years. And we still have a long way to go. These legal documents still crack me up. Everybody is some kind of "American". African American, Asian American, Native American, and the list goes on. I'm still waiting on "European American", when is that going to be added to the list? We haven't come a long way. Race is still an issue, and white folks TODAY are still the ones benefiting from all the oppression and bullshit they put us through.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin (Post 2221873)
It's how things used to be.

And today it's the same shit different toilet.

AOII Angel 06-22-2013 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OPhiAGinger (Post 2221973)
I grew up in Texas and Georgia and I know first hand that what Southerners say in public does not always align with their private feelings. Even so, I was shocked as a teenager to realize my own beloved grandparents were comfortable using racial slurs around close friends and family. I started to challenge them on this and they reacted with bewilderment that almost equaled my own.

Then I had an epiphany: They were 60. I was a teenager. Very soon their generation would transfer power to my generation. There was no way I was going to change their views at this late stage of their life, so my energy was better spent on my own generation and on the next. And that's what I did. At my first professional job, a member of management told a racial joke in a social gathering that only include white employees. I politely asked him not to tell those kind of jokes around me, and that my great grandmother was black. (Not true as far as I know, but I wanted to shake him up.) He looked at my fair skin and blond hair and I could see the question marks dancing across his brain. I don't care if he believe me or not. It made him think twice before he just assumed that a whole room of white adults were as racist as he was.

In fifteen years or less, Paula Dean will be dead. She has already lost her public credibility and stage. But all this persecution is making her a martyr for the younger racists, which is just going to perpetuate it. Her empire is crumbling. The media needs to let it go before we make racism fashionable again in a certain segment of the population.

I've had the same exact experiences. I find it funny that you chose to invoke a black great grandmother. I understand your goal, but racist jokes shouldn't be acceptable whether you are in the presence of someone of that race or not. Being in a room full of people of your own race shouldn't give you a pass to be racist. I do applaud you for speaking up. So many won't. It's uncomfortable to be in that situation, but it's important to say something. Most the time, I just tell people to not say those things in my presence. If they choose to be racist elsewhere, they are adults in a free nation and are free to do as they choose. I'm giving them notice not to start a fight.

cheerfulgreek 06-22-2013 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knight_shadow (Post 2221940)
How is ridiculing her speech racism?

lol

MysticCat 06-22-2013 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AZTheta (Post 2221965)
Re: "Southern accent" or "Southern speech". There are multiple videos/articles/programs etc. available on this topic. I'd start with reading this one. There's a segment of our profession (speech-language pathology) that treats "dialect" or "accent reduction".

So, bias against "Southern speech" = racist? Perhaps not. But discriminatory? Evidence says yes.

Absolutely there are biases againt Southern accents and presuppositions about the people who have them. That doesn't mean it's racism. It's more like regional prejudices and classism.

To say it's not racism doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It just means that this particular prejudice doesn't fall within the definition of racism, and calling it racism when it isn't can be a dialogue-stopper.

AZTheta 06-22-2013 03:06 PM

Indeed, MysticCat. Thank you for the clarification and elucidation. Again you have read my mind and expressed my thoughts succinctly.

agzg 06-22-2013 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arnold Poppi :P (Post 2221981)
I'm in school to become a gastroenterologist assistant, and you wouldn't believe the struggles I am having. I'm also a white guy. Black people aren't the only people who struggle in this country.

Oh for fuck's sake.

AOII Angel 06-22-2013 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by agzg (Post 2221987)
Oh for fuck's sake.

Amen. Life is hard. Wah, wah, wah, wah.

Old_Row 06-22-2013 04:03 PM

I figure that since my great grandmomma who spent all her 98 years in the heart of Dixie and even knew people who fought in the Civil War could realize the horrible wrongs committed and went on to work in the civil rights movement, then there is no excuse for someone of Miss Paula's generation to continue to be this way. It's sad to say there are people who will still be racist and say horrible things in nonmixed company but I for one will give them a piece of my mind when they do!

Old_Row 06-22-2013 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arnold Poppi :P (Post 2221981)
I'm in school to become a gastroenterologist assistant, and you wouldn't believe the struggles I am having. I'm also a white guy. Black people aren't the only people who struggle in this country.

Maybe you should find another thing to study since I guess you aren't too fortunate in the brains department if you really believe this is even comparable!

StealthMode 06-22-2013 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by agzg (Post 2221987)
Oh for fuck's sake.

I am Black and I approve of this message.

Psi U MC Vito 06-22-2013 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizeree I2K (Post 2221974)
Short period of time? Really dude? It took a lot longer than 50-60 years of struggling. I'm talking over 400 years. And we still have a long way to go. These legal documents still crack me up. Everybody is some kind of "American". African American, Asian American, Native American, and the list goes on. I'm still waiting on "European American", when is that going to be added to the list? We haven't come a long way. Race is still an issue, and white folks TODAY are still the ones benefiting from all the oppression and bullshit they put us through.


And today it's the same shit different toilet.

While we still have long way to go, you really can't say that we we haven't come a long way. Slavery no longer exist, and there are legal protections against other kinds of discrimination. In fact this whole Paula Deen thing illustrates how far we have gone because of the sheer amount of outrage her comments are causing.

Mizeree I2K 06-22-2013 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arnold Poppi :P (Post 2221981)
I'm in school to become a gastroenterologist assistant, and you wouldn't believe the struggles I am having. I'm also a white guy. Black people aren't the only people who struggle in this country.

LOL @ Dr. Wackenstein over here talkin shit with two posts. Dude, take your trollin, Arnold Poppin ass somewhere and fuck off. Up in here posting pics of some dude sitting in a chair bustin his ass, and then gonna turn around and expect folks to take you seriously.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito (Post 2221995)
While we still have long way to go, you really can't say that we we haven't come a long way. Slavery no longer exist, and there are legal protections against other kinds of discrimination. In fact this whole Paula Deen thing illustrates how far we have gone because of the sheer amount of outrage her comments are causing.

Don't tell me what I can and can't say. The physical act of slavery no longer exist, but the damage of it does.

Psi U MC Vito 06-22-2013 04:50 PM

And I'm not saying it doesn't. All I'm saying is that things have progressed a long way. They just need to progress more.

Sen's Revenge 06-22-2013 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizeree I2K (Post 2221996)
The physical act of slavery no longer exist, but the damage of it does.

Word.

http://www.tracingcenter.org/

DeltaBetaBaby 06-22-2013 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arnold Poppi :P (Post 2221981)
I'm in school to become a gastroenterologist assistant, and you wouldn't believe the struggles I am having. I'm also a white guy. Black people aren't the only people who struggle in this country.

What a coincidence. I have some links for you in my signature.

Nine Jewels 06-22-2013 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizeree I2K (Post 2221974)
Short period of time? Really dude? It took a lot longer than 50-60 years of struggling. I'm talking over 400 years. And we still have a long way to go. These legal documents still crack me up. Everybody is some kind of "American". African American, Asian American, Native American, and the list goes on. I'm still waiting on "European American", when is that going to be added to the list? We haven't come a long way. Race is still an issue, and white folks TODAY are still the ones benefiting from all the oppression and bullshit they put us through.

Perfect example of the self-pitying whining that's so prelevant among AAs these days. If race is still such an issue, make your life better! Colleges out there are tripping all over themselves to fill their quotas; small business loans are available for minorities. DO something about it.


Personally, I'm tired of everyone getting all upset because someone dropped the N-bomb. It's like when Whitey was going after Rev. Wright for things he said, everyone getting their panties in a twist because of words.

I'm a proud, strong, well-eductated Black Woman and I don't give a damn if someone calls me That Word. It doesn't affect me one way or another and it shouldnt' affect you either.

IrishLake 06-22-2013 06:23 PM

Aside from some discrimination when I was pregnant, unemployed and actively seeking work, I haven't experienced first hand the sort of issues I think Miz is talking about. It's hard for me to have a well informed opinion. Just because I haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

I share my office with a 55 year old black man. I'm a 30 something white woman. He's become my mentor, and I learn more about geology and groundwater and soil remediation from him than I have anyone or anything else. Fifty years ago, this would have been seriously scandalous, if not completely illegal. Nowadays, it's not a biggie. (We call our office the Greek corner. He's an Alpha Phi Alpha and another guy whose desk is right outside is a Teke.) Since our groups share colors, we feel we share even more of a bond. He came from privilege though, so even he has admitted it's harder for him to identify with past history.

amIblue? 06-22-2013 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old_Row (Post 2221991)
I figure that since my great grandmomma who spent all her 98 years in the heart of Dixie and even knew people who fought in the Civil War could realize the horrible wrongs committed and went on to work in the civil rights movement, then there is no excuse for someone of Miss Paula's generation to continue to be this way. It's sad to say there are people who will still be racist and say horrible things in nonmixed company but I for one will give them a piece of my mind when they do!

Preach it!

Quote:

Originally Posted by StealthMode (Post 2221994)
I am Black and I approve of this message.

LOL!

SWTXBelle 06-22-2013 07:56 PM

This came a week too later to inform my American Lit. 1865-present's class discussion on "Adventures of Huckleberry Finn" and the charge of racism. For the mid-term I had them write about the critical controversy regarding the portrayal of Jim and use of THAT word. I have a very diverse class this semester - several international students, who provided very interesting perspectives, and a cross-section of races. I got some really interesting essays. I told them that honestly I didn't care which side they came down upon, as long as they were thoughtful and backed up their assertions with quotes from the text. Good stuff.

Regarding Paula Deen - I've long thought she was over-exposed. I'd gotten tired of her southern butter schtick. Her rabid fans will keep her in butter, no doubt. I'm disappointed that now we will have even more "southern = racist" stereotyping.( I heard the n-word more when I lived in New Jersey then when I lived in Virginia, Tennessee or Texas - admittedly, a limited survey sample.) I always fear that the rest of the country seems to like to make the south their racism scapegoat, so they can smugly believe that it is a problem THERE and not HERE. On the plus side, it's at least got people talking about racism.

PiKA2001 06-22-2013 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticCat (Post 2221958)
Why do I know what? That I probably wouldn't quote "Gone With the Wind" in a thread about possible racism or racial insensitivity of someone who appears to have considered an antebellum wedding reception? Or that "tomorrow is another day" was Scarlet O'Hara's signature line, and the last line of the book and movie?

Never mind, it was late when I posted and I thought you meant Paula Deen was quoting GWTW, just now noticed it was the other poster you were referring to.

DubaiSis 06-22-2013 08:34 PM

My turn to chime in! First, the trolls are awesome in their obviousness and desire merely to stir the pot.

Second, while I am a born and bred Upper Midwestern gal, I used to work occasionally in Atlanta. To my surprise the office where I worked seemed more racially inclusive than any I'd ever been involved with. I contend that in southern cities where they really addressed the issue, they have achieved a higher level of racial neutrality (for lack of a better phrase) than in northern cities that never felt that they needed to or were compelled to.

But back to the issue at hand, there has been some pretty negative stuff floating around about Paula Deen for years. I don't recall it being racist as much as being "I'm rich and you can suck it," which is disappointing considering her back story.

There was a time when she seemed folksy and down to earth, but now she seems like a too much makeup too much jewelry money grubber. IMO of course.

cheerfulgreek 06-22-2013 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizeree I2K (Post 2221996)
LOL @ Dr. Wackenstein over here talkin shit with two posts. Dude, take your trollin, Arnold Poppin ass somewhere and fuck off. Up in here posting pics of some dude sitting in a chair bustin his ass, and then gonna turn around and expect folks to take you seriously.

http://www.picgifs.com/graphics/l/lo...lol-593314.GIF

agzg 06-23-2013 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StealthMode (Post 2221994)
I am Black and I approve of this message.

ILU heathen girl.

naraht 06-23-2013 09:00 AM

Colored?
 
How do people feel about the use of Colored in this regard? I've got an 86 year old neighbor who will still use this term sometimes. Note he voted for Obama, twice.

cheerfulgreek 06-23-2013 09:27 AM

Aw man, I came over here to see if "Arnold Poppi" replied to Mizeree I2K. He's gone. :( Just the username alone was freaking hilarious! :p

Sen's Revenge 06-23-2013 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naraht (Post 2222041)
How do people feel about the use of Colored in this regard? I've got an 86 year old neighbor who will still use this term sometimes. Note he voted for Obama, twice.

Is your neighbor white?

My (black) mentor uses the word colored and so do I sometimes. It does not bother me but I also do not use it in mixed company.

Note: White people, please understand that just about any word can be used in a demeaning way as well as a neutral way and endearing way. Me being an example of someone who tolerates the word "colored" is not a pass for you to use it. You've never used it before and you're just trying to be slick.

DrPhil 06-23-2013 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sen's Revenge (Post 2222000)

Word.

Quote:

Originally Posted by amIblue? (Post 2222010)
Preach it!

Word.

Quote:

Originally Posted by naraht (Post 2222041)
How do people feel about the use of Colored in this regard? I've got an 86 year old neighbor who will still use this term sometimes. Note he voted for Obama, twice.

Don't you all dare turn this thread into a Race Workshop. Naraht, you are certainly conscious and can answer your own question.

As for the 86 yo neighbor, he has either been ignored or cussed out over the years. Voting for President Obama means absolutely nothing. Nothing. People do not receive a "pass" for voting for President Obama. As always, I do not call individuals racist because racism is a structural and institutional pattern that has never solely relied upon individual hatred and prejudice. The importance of behavior that spans beyond individual intent and prejudices is why people are able to say things like "I'm not racist...I love everyone...I took a diversity workshop 20 years ago, married a Latina 5 years ago, and voted for President Obama for goodness sake!!! But I can't hire you because my customers are afraid of nonwhites...and I need money in this tough economy...but, on a personal level, you and I can hang out sometimes...you seem really cool...."

Real talk.

This thread had so much potential to be a GC Race War. I commend IotaGuy for his hard work and determination and I agree with much of what you all have said. There were a couple of comments that I considered...special...but the comments were indicative of the GCers who typed them.

/This thread is really not about Paula Deen and I do not hold any ill will toward Paula Deen. This is definitely not only a southern issue (not only a North American issue either) although the overt nature is (not was) characteristic of the south. As always, people use news stories to share sentiments that they do not regularly feel comfortable sharing. This is why I hate "diversity training" and things that give people "permission" to express certain beliefs. My personal and professional realities are such that I talk about these topics everyday with people. Therefore, people don't have to bullcrap and wait for news stories like Paula Deen to share wider opinions on the -isms (racism and other -isms). People don't have to be passive aggressive and look for quick complaints and therefore quick fixes--humans are extremely lazy and shortsighted.

*Eating a Paula Deen Sambo Burger while watching Melissa Harris-Perry on MSNBC. Watching a Black person on TV buffers the impact of the Sambo Burger.*

Oh yeah, welcome to DST christiangirl. :D I could not post without saying that. :D *hug*

IrishLake 06-23-2013 10:16 AM

:) DrPhil, you've been missed. (It's not obvious to me if you've been here under other names. But I'm happy to see "DrPhil." )

DrPhil 06-23-2013 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IrishLake (Post 2222048)
(It's not obvious to me if you've been here under other names.)

Hell no.

I always have and always will let you all know when I am posting. I do not hide under random usernames (and I do not research GCers' personal lives and post their information on GC). Therefore, I do not know who the hell those other usernames are and, if they are trying to make people think they are me, they can kiss my Sambo Burger ass.

Now...can this thread or IotaGuy's other thread become a GC Race War? There is so much potential.

amIblue? 06-23-2013 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrPhil (Post 2222050)
Hell no.

I always have and always will let you all know when I am posting. I do not hide under random usernames (and I do not research GCers' personal lives and post their information on GC). Therefore, I do not know who the hell those other usernames are and, if they are trying to make people think they are me, they can kiss my Sambo Burger ass.

Now...can this thread or IotaGuy's other thread become a GC Race War? There is so much potential.

I'm so glad you're back! This place is so much more interesting when you contribute.


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