Part of it is common sense. I came from a background of very little information about sororities and recruitment in general. The only greeks in my family had passed away before I was ten and I didn't know they were greek. I didn't understand how recruitment worked. My first recruitment was deferred so I had seen some sorority women around campus and knew groups I was partial to or was less interested in. However, I didn't blast that around. I even had both a facebook and myspace to blast it, but didn't. I don't think my friends did either, at least they didn't do it in front of me. They could have said things I suppose.
It just seems obvious to me, even though I come from that background.

Well I think most of them are stupid because they know better than to tell sorority members directly to their faces during recruitment but still put it all over Facebook and twitter and tumblr like no one else is watching and the sorority members will never know.

A PNM from the other side of the USA has no idea where she will fit in before she gets there except based on dumb gossip on the Internet. If you go to a nearby school and know a lot of members in houses then you may have an idea of where you might fit in best but that's a totally different situation. PNMs in all situations need to not be all up on the Internet or talking to people in real life about the only houses they want because things can go very wrong and it is also rude to all the houses! We have eyes and ears and we find out what you are doing and that can end up not very pretty for your recruitment!!!!!

More and more, sororities sound like the mafia: "From the outside looking in, you can't understand it. And from the inside looking out, you can't explain it.

:cool:

omerta
a code of silence practiced by the Mafia; a refusal to give evidence [to the police about criminal activities.]

(slight hijack)

"I keep cutting XYZ but they're still on my schedule!!!"

THAT'S BECAUSE THE CHAPTERS YOU RANKED HIGHER DIDN'T INVITE YOU BACK.
WHEN YOU SAY THIS YOU'RE SAYING "THE CHAPTERS I WANTED DIDN'T INVITE ME BACK" NO ONE IS IMPRESSED

Biggest pet peeve.

Just out of curiosity. Do you think these girls are from your smaller towns or are the big city girls guilty as well?
When I rushed at USM back in the disco era, the worst offenders during rush, were the girls from small, kind of backwards towns in the middle of the state.
And what part of the state that you came from definitely played into your perception of each sorority.

I do see a lot of small-town girls doing it out of ignorance but also see some big city girls doing it, especially those from the private schools and upperclass (don't know a better term) public schools from which many girls tend to pledge a certain group of sororities. Here's a caveat, girls: there are so many of you from those schools that Awesome Alpha and Bodacious Beta can't take you all.

Thus why the Greek systems on so very many campuses are expanding with colonies (new, young chapters) to serve more PNMs.

I think it's just the 10 foot tall and bullet-proof thing that IS being a teenager, and is also why parents should monitor their kids' social media; for reminders of the social graces as much as for checking for drugs and otherwise unacceptable behavior.

And if Mom tells you it's not cool and you do it anyway because what does she know, then it's all on you and you'll get what you deserve.

Which true story do you want ?
1. I initially applied to one university because I liked the brochure. I was a national merit scholar and got TONS of brochures, but this one was particularly nice. When I didn't get into DREAM school, I went to Nice Brochure U planning on transferring. Joined a sorority, stayed and graduated.

2. More than once (here in Mordor - somewhere south of the Plateau of Gorgoroth)- I have known a girl - dying to get XYZ, gets UVW on bid day instead, depledges then transfers for a do-over. (This has also happened with a sophomore who thought she knew everyone in the chapter and XYZ loved her.)

3. Little Lucy Legacy puts all over her Facebook before recruitment how she can't wait to be an ABC because her big sisters friends are all so awesome. Goes all the way through recruitment telling ABC how much she loves them and how fantastic they are - pref night chooses XYZ. XYZ thinks this is funny. Big sisters friends in ABC not pleased. Tells ABCs "but I knew we would all still be friends anyway!" They are not. :eek:

4. Finally - one of the awesome officers I have advised, made her final tough decision pref night because she liked our colors better. :p

Slight hijack, but I don't understand why people would only apply to one or two colleges and not give themselves some backup. My boyfriend applied to only Clemson and Georgia Tech, and while he was accepted to both if he hadn't gotten into either he would have been up a creek without a paddle as far as starting higher education at a four-year university in the fall. Same goes for anyone who decides to apply to only reach/financially unattainable schools. I had a cousin that got rejected from everywhere except one school that he outright could not afford, so he ended up coming home after one semester. It just boggles my mind that anyone would think not having an affordable safety school as a last-resort backup is a good idea.

/hijack

Also, FWIW, I'm in both the Class of 2017 and the Girls' Roommate Search groups on Facebook for Clemson and nobody has said so far that they are rushing for any specific group. I'd like to think this means nobody is saying that, but in reality they're probably just making it their status instead of posting in the group. Still, I can dream.

Depends on timing. I had my U of I acceptance in-hand before I finished filling out my other applications. So then I just didn't do any other applications.

I guess I should have added that I had acceptances to two Big State U.s and one Regional State U, but on reflection, decided it would be better to take a chance on smaller private Nice Brochure U. and transferring if it did not work out. I really wanted to do something different then everyone at my high school.

A lot of time and money goes into applications so some people try to limit their list of applications if they have a pretty good idea of what they want or if they are going to Big State U. because everyone else is. I think the same crowd that thinks they can pick whichever sorority they want, thinks they can sign up for the school they want.

With respect, some of us are first generation college students and had literally no advisement from family or guidance counselors. In the pre-internet era, I was on my own. Today, I would have probably been able to go online and see the "norm." Back, then I applied to 3 random in-state schools and chose the one where I didn't know anyone. Don't recommend picking a school at that basis, but I didn't know any better when I was 17 and no one I talked to about it-- parents, teachers, friends-- advised me any differently.

Similarly, I had no idea what rush was or what a sorority was, and I was completely turned off by the Minnie Mouse-voiced bimbo preaching about Greek Life at my freshman orientation. It wasn't until I met Greeks in my classes that I thought this could be something for me and I rushed the following year (with certain biases and stereotypes in mind, but, thankfully, no Facebook to broadcast those thoughts to).

Pre-internet, that's completely understandable. And even for first-gen college students nowadays, if you live in a bubble entirely comprised of people who never went to college it can be really hard to figure out the ins and outs of such a complicated process. I was imagining more the affluent, suburban, white-bread kids I grew up with who had the resources and should have known better but for whatever reason decided not to hedge their bets. If a PNM can google how rush works then a reasonably intelligent teenager should be able to google school costs and acceptance rates.

Totally agree!

Technically, I didn't apply to any universities. I was pre-accepted into a couple schools without trying or expressing any interest. But the rules I was functioning under was "you can attend any school you want as long as it has the word IOWA in the name." For me, that meant one school. They pre-accepted me. Process complete. I do wonder how I would have handled that process if I'd had broader horizons.

For all the admonishing about PNMs and college bound students hedging their bets, you'll never see this behavior go away because for as much as we bitch about it, there aren't dire consequences for every student who does it. PNMs go through recruitment every single year with this attitude. Some have magical recruitments, some have nightmares. The ones that end up where they wanted feed the beast. We all know it happens. Pretending like the system magically spits out each and every person who dares not be Panhellenic is stupid. We do get to see a lot of these girls go home when they drop out rather than take a bid from a chapter "below them" but there are plenty whom get the chapter of their dreams. Honestly, if they would rather drop out then join a group of women having a great time without them...a doubt they'll be missed.

^^^^^^ True, this. So, so true.

And all too often, the "chapter of their dreams" ends up being a nightmare, as witnessed by the number of resignations ("drops"). What I find fascinating is the membership retention of the "below them" chapters versus the "dream chapters"... to me, that's the litmus test of what a "dream chapter" really is.

Yeah, I was under the "you can go to any school you want but the only one I'm paying for is Alabama" rule....

How much knowledge does it take to know that there is nothing to be gained by being rude and insulting, which is what announcing you are not interested in a group which is hosting you for an event, formal or informal, is?

That's what my dad said to me about Michigan. ;) (actually, he said he'd only pay for the application fee to Michigan, but since he paid for my tuition when I transferred to Maryland, I guess he got over it)

I have to say that my daughter had a preconceived "favorite" last fall that stayed the same right through January recruitment, and that's where she joined. In her case, her favorite was based on women she met during the through common clubs/activities, and where she thought she'd best fit; it was not based on tiers. I confess I actually considered ordering some Pi Phi items during the Lily Pulitzer half-off sale the week before her recruitment, but I refrained. Missed that deal...but I didn't want to jinx it.

Winter recruitment is a different animal, though. In her case, girls had to make an effort to get to know sorority members during the fall...recruitment was a 4 month process. By the time formal recruitment week rolled around in January, she had a good idea about where she'd made connections, and where she hadn't.

To be fair, the only girls I really judge are the ones who come HERE and talk about which chapters they want, because those girls literally have the answers at their fingertips and ignore everything.

However, my freshman year, I fell in love with a group of girls who were rushing me hardcore and then told everyone I knew that I "wanted to be an XYZ." Stupid. Stupid, stupid, stupid. My second night of rush, everyone but XYZ dropped me. (What did I think was going to happen? [Obviously, I thought everyone was going to looooooooove me and I would get to choose which group I wanted to join]). It worked out in the end, as I joined XYZ. It was my dream chapter, even though it was lowest on the totem pole at the time, and I loved every minute of it.

But I was so, so, so clueless.

I've seen dozens of recruitment brochures and websites over the years that seemed to suggest that the PNM was in the driver's seat, that she would be doing the choosing. Some of these were even from highly competitive schools!

A lot of PNMs buy into this and are horribly shocked when they get first returns. I don't understand why anyone would advertise her choices, though, whether she was basically clueless about rush or very sophisticated. I have to wonder if some of these girl hope that their choices' members will see their posts and be flattered.

I don't think my daughter was quite this overt, but I absolutely think the "word was out" on her and Pi Phi.

Also, A LOT of fraternity guys were fishing for information in December and via FB over break. There was a lot of "so, which chapter do you like best?" and "I heard that XYZ and DEF really like you. What's your favorite?" I told my daughter, probably too late, to evade these questions, because this appeared to be serious fishing in the guise of casual conversation. I had every reason to believe this info was going right back to their sorority friends.

I agree...I think those brochures are trying to downplay the "exclusivity" reputation that goes along with recruitment. In many cases, that's false advertising.

Same as "it is the sorority's job to find a recommendation for you." In the real world, that rarely happens.

OMG! I am currently trying (maybe fruitlessly) to convince some UGa PNMs that no matter what the website says, they HAVE to get recs! Their non-Greek moms keep parroting, "But the Panhellenic site says you don't have to..."

Now, now - sure, they don't have to have recs, they only have to have recs for chapters they might want to join (or that mom wants them to join.) :rolleyes:

(maybe mom doesn't think they are up to recruitment....)

You would be correct.

I had that come up last year with some Alabama PNMs. The statement that it's the sorority's responsibility to find recs was posted near the top of the websites's info section...I think some stopped reading right there, believing they had nothing to worry about. This year, it says in the first few paragraphs that it's not the PNMs responsibility to find the official rec forms alumnae use. The other comment about sororities securing recs is still in there, but tucked in much further down.

"Don't listen to your non-Greek mother on this one."

I was typing a post about that very info too. And check the instruction at the end of the page.

From the lengthy page devoted to “Letters of Recommendation” on the Bama Panhellenic site:

http://uapanhellenic.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=15&It emid=32

First sentence on page:

Also:
Last (next to last) sentences on page:

Little wonder that there is still confusion where recs are concerned (at Bama anyway) – especially among moms who are not Greek and using this “official” source of information.

***I've never noticed the "send in your own" suggestion before. Perhaps it has been there in the past, but I never noticed it. And I don't know of any PNMs who have done that.

.

You are kidding. Send in your own? Now who on earth is going to accept that?

It really doesn't make any sense, especially when the PNM has already submitted the same information to register for recruitment (from Bama's Panhellenic Sorority Recruitment Registration page):



Prepare yourself before you begin to register by having the following items ready:

• Personal Information (UA Campuswide ID Number, Crimson email account, etc.)
• List of extracurricular activities, honors, community service and work experience
• Sorority legacy information
• Digital photograph, preferably a head-shot (1 MB Max)
• Digital Copy of your Resume (1 MB Max)
• Digital copy of your high school or college transcript (1 MB Max)
• Credit or Debt card for online payment

I wouldn't recommend sending in your own info to chapters there. Panhellenic really needs to reword and reorganize the information concerning letters of recommendation to be more accurate.

.

Amen, I completely see why there is confusion. Parents who attended the Preview Weekend seem to have a much better understanding of what is needed, but some who didn't rely a lot on what they read at the website, and some trust it more than they do a few alums telling them differently. On another note, I had a UGA mom tell me she heard recs were "being phased out" and not a big deal anymore. Wow, wonder what UGA she is talking about? Not the one in Athens, Georgia.

This is *exactly* what I assume would happen if someone chose a sorority for any other reason than feeling comfortable with the members or feeling like they are at "home".

Maybe it's like fashion...they're willing to tough it out even if it's painful or uncomfortable because the "label" is so prestigious! :)

Or among moms who were Greek, but at a noncompetitive school. (I'm so glad my daughter chose not to rush; I knew NOTHING about Texas and would have given her very very bad information. Even though I belonged to an alumnae group, this was not something we ever discussed.)

For all the people who get told "contact your Greek Life office; a bunch of strangers on the internet don't know" (not only this site, mind you), we shouldn't be surprised that there is confusion among those who weren't raised with the SEC-sorority mindset.

This is all true. However, since it either borders on tent talk or is actual tent talk, it would not be serving our PNM public well if we did not do everything to quash this sort of thinking.

The PNMs for which the "rushing certain chapter(s)" works are what most of GLO women here feel are the extreme minority of PNMs. If we don't say something about how it's not the way to approach recruitment then we are reinforcing that approach that "rushing certain chapter(s)" is okay. The PNMs will assume it's okay for most of them to just rush one chapter, and not just the PNM with the magical recruitment that gets the ONE chapter she had her heart set on from the beginning.

Here's an analogy which is similar to this kind of thinking from recruitment: It's like depending on the fact that you Special Snowflake PNM are a legacy to a 100+ year chapter "FGH" at Magnolia Republic University (MRU) to get you onto the MRU FGH 100+ year chapter first bid list . . . You may not relaize you are competing with many, many, worthy PNMs at MRU and that older chapter cannot take all of its legacies due to the generations of FGH Alumnae that MRU FGH has produced. Those women had many more daughters than sons it seems. MRU Legacy PNMs cannot depend on their legacy chapters and here at Greekchat we tell them that information routinely here. To do otherwise is a disservice to those legacy PNMs.

Just giving credit where credit is due...
The quote you've presented in this post as mine was actually posted by Hartofsec. :)