Darn, I won't be home on the 5th, other wise I would meet you at Obie. They have the best homemade candy and donuts at a convenience store on the square. Hope he loves the school.

You must be so proud of him, and may I please learn from you on child rearing? Your two are quite the pair!

Last year I would've said, "yes!" Now, I'm still ticked that generallygreek was rejected, after 6 years of enrolling in their gifted camps and on-line programs. One thing I will say is that the music department did specifically reach out to her to visit, come for an audition, etc., which she ignored (probably didn't help her application), because she didn't think she wanted to pursue a music major. Guess who's now decided to major in music? :o

Great job on the score increase, Halostar!

Just as I had this gut feeling that Hypo would end up at Barnard, I have the same gut feeling that Halostar will end up at either Oberlin or Kalamazoo. He really doesn't want to stray outside of easy visiting distance and both fit that bill. They both fit the bill of small school with an open minded and excelling student population.

As for child rearing... I don't really know. I did IQ test their dad before I married him (I was in grad school working on a master's in clinical psych at the time) so they had a good gene pool. I did reward the positive behaviors and punish the negative and, once they were in later elementary, didn't really challenge me on anything because they knew the limits and knew they would be enforced. My mom was their babysitter until she was too ill to do so anymore, but she always gave them educational toys and books, read books to them, watched educational shows with them, introduced them to a variety of topics (science, reading, etc) and shared HER love of everything- animals, astronomy, politics- with them. They've seen me and their dad go to grad school while working and raising them, which likely helped reinforce the importance of education. I encouraged them to follow their passions. Scouting organizations are fantastic and helped develop them. We always engaged in service activities (going through toys before Christmas to see what could be donated, park clean ups, etc.). Perhaps, more than anything- I raised them to value respect. The words "Shut up" were not allowed in my household. I have never said those words to them, they have never said them to me. Anger was sometimes expressed with yelling, but never included insults. It was geared toward behaviors, not personal characteristics. Most often, it was communicated calmly with talking points and it usually revolved around them leaving messes in the house.

I think, overall, they had parents and a grandma who really love to learn also. Whether this is genetic or environmental, I don't know. But they were curious as toddlers and we tried very hard to channel it appropriately without killing it. I don't agree with the term "Curiosity killed the cat." I think curiosity is healthy and a sign of intelligence. Before the Internet, I used to carry a note pad around with me to make a list of things I wanted to look up in the encyclopedia when I was at the library. I would just wonder things about the world and wanted answers. They are very much the same way, but have that information at their finger tips. There were always books- lots of books.

In grad school, in my Intelligence class (where I learned to administer IQ tests), we discussed a list of environmental things that correlate to higher IQs. There are a few that I remembered most and which I tried to make sure I followed were these:
1. If parents stopped what they were doing to answer their children's questions, IQs were higher
2. In households that had lots of books, IQs were higher.
3. In households where children saw parents reading for fun, IQs were higher.

I saw their strengths and encouraged them to use them. I saw their weaknesses and we have worked on them. I talked to them like adults and didn't dismiss their thoughts or ideas just because they were children.

They aren't perfect...lol.. they are far from perfect, but they have become very interesting people. Hypo was always fearless and took chances. Halo was afraid of everything, but is learning to push and challenge himself to get beyond his fears. In fact, he rode a bike for the first time in 11 years this week. He was afraid once the training wheels were off. At 17, he learned to ride a two wheeler. We celebrated that :) He is liking the freedom since we have three drivers and two cars this summer. Work and internships trump everything for car priority use so he has been without wheels a lot.

Oh yeah... 15 months til my nest is empty. Wow!

Huzzah! I'm three for three! On to kindergarten! :)

Sounds great! All of that stuff makes such a difference. So much of it is natural, though, that I fear that many people who weren't engaged as children will repeat the cycle.

I like Oberlin!

Now that I've "known" you for almost 10 years, it's crazy to me that they're now a young man and young woman - you're right - they're both very interesting. I'm so glad that he's pushing himself to try new things.

You've got so much going on elsewhere you'll probably enjoy having them home for breaks but I'm proud of you for the hard work you've done to get here.

What event did he compete in at BPA Nationals? My D did advanced desktop publishing this year and last year she was on a team that present in Animation. She had a great time in Orlando although just one trip into a park.

He qualified on open competitions. At regionals, he won for Parliamentary Procedure. At states, he won for Business Spelling. He had a classmate who did some sort of desktop publishing though- they had to make a calendar? That may not have been advanced. They had a great time in Orlando too!

Thankfully, I'm out of the hospital in time for our visit to Oberlin tomorrow. If we'd had to cancel after he scheduled an interview, we'd have been very sad. I'm glad it is a small campus! Hypo is sad that she can't come along because she has to work. She asked me to take lots of pictures for her.

Oberlin Visit
 

My ex-husband decided to join us which was a little bit of a relief to me. I was concerned that my energy level wouldn't hold or I might have an issue and my son would be driving us home with me in the backseat of the car in pain and him feeling scared.

Going in, I should mention- My ex is all about "go to college to get a career in something specific" and I am all about "go to college to get an education and do something good with it in a career".

Oberlin- It was a busy visit day for them, being the day after a holiday. They split us into three tour groups for a 10 am tour. Our tour guide reminded me a lot of Halostar- similar interests, same majors he is interested in, very similar ECs. I knew Halo was getting a good vibe already. The tour was interesting and even though it started raining during the tour, the campus was beautiful. The dorm room they showed us was huge- easily twice the size of Hypo's room! The tour guide did say something about not going to college to get a job but for personal growth and I could see my ex-husband cringe. Everything on the tour was impressive from the environmental science building to the art museum and jazz building.

We got back from the tour and it was time for the interview. The interviewer found S in a busy lobby and he went for his interview. A housing/dining info session started while he was in the interview so my ex and I went to that and the interviewer brought S in after they were done. I was excited to hear how that interview went but had to wait until the housing session was done. He felt he connected well with the interviewer. They had discussions about his Eagle project and other ECs, The Great Gatsby (his summer reading for AP English), the Emergency Financial Manager situation in Michigan, and redistricting of congressional seats in our state. It sounds like it was a great interview, if S is judging correctly. He is well versed on those topics and passionate about those issues.

I was tired from the walking tour (after 3.5 days laying in a hospital bed and not able to eat real food other than eggs and yogurt- surprising how weak you get). Our plan was to find food and come back for the general admission info session. I told Halo and ex that I'd ask to see what kind of information we'd get from that last info session that we hadn't already heard and we could decide whether to stay or not. Halo said "it doesn't really matter what they say, I'm definitely applying here!" with much enthusiasm. My ex groaned out loud...lol. We decided to stay for the afternoon session.

We walked to the little downtown area- so cool! I love little downtown areas like that with all the local businesses. The only chain we saw was a Subway. We ate at a little cafe that had all organic, mostly locally produced foods and I was able to get eggs for lunch- a very good thing, although I had Ensure in the car in case I couldn't find food I could eat. Over lunch, the debate about 'type of school' and 'type of major' continued. We discussed finances. I shared with my ex how I'm doing it with Hypo and what I plan to do for Halo. He has not contributed a dime to anything but feeding them when they're with them for almost 4 years now because, well, he couldn't. He calmed down some after that discussion when he realized I had a plan in place. However, this debate will continue on and on until Halo has a career job, I think. When he was going on an on about the importance of a degree that gives direct professional career skills, I asked him how that had worked for both of us? He's unemployed again and I'm in a totally different field.

I think we could have skipped the 1:30 session. I was disappointed the same student who did our tour was the student in that session because we heard the same story over again. It would have been nice to have a different perspective too. It was just chance that we'd been in that tour group too though. There were some good questions from parents and I liked the answers I heard from the admissions counselor running the session.

We drove around the rest of little downtown Oberlin and headed home. Halo called Hypo (who was VERY sad she had to work and didn't get to see this school- she didn't know about Oberlin during her search and, although very happy at Barnard, would have loved Oberlin too for sure). The talks continued about what other colleges are on Halo's list and we've agreed to explore Bama and Notre Dame to please my ex. My brother lived in Alabama for a while, went to UNC Chapel Hill for grad school, and lived in the rural south for a couple decades. We're seeing him at the end of the month so we intend to talk with him about how well Halo would fit at a southern school. He will be able to give us insight.

We met a great family on the Oberlin tour who are from our area. The husband works for my former employer but in the same office complex where I currently work. His D is also very interested in Barnard so I talked with him about Barnard some and how great my D's experience has been. They have a D'14 and an S'15 so both kids are exploring these schools. There was also a family from Seattle in our tour group. I asked that mom how she came to explore Oberlin from Seattle and she said the professional college counselor they hired recommended it.

Overall, it was a great trip although I was totally exhausted when we got home. Then our power went out before I could post all this so I just went to bed.

AP scores are up this morning and are higher than I thought they'd be- 2 5s and a 4. Halo will be thrilled when he wakes up. Few kids from our school ever get 5s. I don't know of any from Hypo's class.

TLDR: Halo loved Oberlin, his dad hated it, I loved it. We're agreeing to explore a few more schools (Notre Dame, Bama, Northwestern) to appease my ex. My ex thinks he should go to a school with wide name recognition or a business school and he hasn't heard of Oberlin or Wash U. Halo pointed out to his dad that he only recognizes schools with big football programs.

Dee, thankful that you are out of the hospital and healing.

Oberlin - wow. It's been on my radar since I was a HS Freshman and that was when God was a baby. I'm with you, the purpose of an education is to develop the mind and the ability to think. The career will then follow.

Surprised that your ex hadnt heard of Wash U. It's pretty highly regarded in this area, for kids who may not be interested in staying on the east coast.

So glad Halo loved Oberlin! I wonder if the buzz around it has increased due to lena Dunham. My first post-school apartment was with a bunch of Oberlin grads--all different careers and backgrounds. Like my alma mater but a bit more quirky and renegade.

Wash U. is a big name for hiring in the Chicago area.

This made me laugh. The difference in the cost of any housing between Manhattan and Lorain county is night and day. My niece lives in a dinky apartment on Wall Street and her rent is more than my mortgage for a 4 bedroom house.

Pretty much! I refuse to tell my parents how much I pay for rent.

Halo started filling out the Common App today. Yikes!

Current list of colleges to apply to: (may change based on visits to Northwestern and Brown)

Albion College (Albion, MI)
Kalamazoo College (Kalamazoo, MI)
University of Michigan (Ann Arbor, MI)
Oberlin (Oberlin, OH)
Northwestern (Evanston, IL)
Brown (Providence, RI)

His list is shorter than Hypo's was. So far, he doesn't want to add any to the list. He'll definitely get into the first 3. I think he'll probably get into Oberlin. The last two are just a crap shoot for anybody.

He'll be shopping for supplies for his Eagle project next week and hopes to finish the project over the following two weekends.

Tennis starts on August 14th. He'll be playing varsity this year.

Visits to Brown and Northwestern will happen in October, probably, after tennis season ends. I visited Brown with Hypo over Labor Day and it was move in weekend and that just wasn't a great time to visit. We couldn't get an official tour or anything. I believe he might apply to Brown Early Decision if he really likes it there. Then we'll hope it's a flat out acceptance or rejection and not a deferral.

Munchkin03 likes this.

Another bad weekend to visit will be homecoming/family weekend, which are both in October. Maybe even the same weekend?

Your ex is wrong. Oberlin has great recognition in my neck of the woods, and Wash U does as well (also highly regarded in the museum field, for what its worth...very good art history programs).

I think that You and Halo are on the right track. It's no good to go to a place with "name recognition" or do a major "for a job" if you're just going to be miserable for four years and your entire working career.

When I decided on Otterbein, I had been accepted to "better" (read: bigger and more name rec) colleges...but they all felt alien and sad, not like a community. I wouldn't have had half the opportunities (to be greek, to be involved, to grow) at some of the others. When you're home, you know it...not to make this sound even more like Greek recruitment.

Northwestern won't be too big for him?

It might be, but they do only have 8000 undergrads. Grand Valley, which he felt was too big, had 21,000 but is one of the smallest state schools (in Michigan)that isn't more than a 5 hour drive away. He's apparently willing to travel to the East Coast for an Ivy, but not for any other school.

The school itself is only medium size, but isn't it essentially in Chicago?

It's in Evanston- not quite as city as Chicago. We'll see. I thought the campus seemed pretty big when I visited with Hypo.

It's big, but there is a lot of green space, and you could do everything you want to do without ever leaving Evanston (says the woman who lives in E-Town and is in Chicago almost every night).

The Northwestern campus does seem big because of the 8,000 grad students. If you are serious about NU apply early admit, which gives you a much better chance than regular admit. NU wants students who want to go there rather than the second choice behind Harvard/Princeton/Yale.

No. :)

Don't get me wrong, there is easy access to the city but it's far enough away to be its own thing.

Halo's Eagle project is about half way done! I think we'll be able to finish it by Tuesday night. It's been a lot of physical labor- far more than I've done in a long time- and while I'm exhausted, I'm exhausted in a good way, if that makes sense.

The Eagle Project is done! Woohoo! It looks great too :)

Ok, I got a college visit road trip all booked and set! We're flying into Providence on Saturday, November 2, renting a car, driving to Ithaca on Sunday to visit Cornell on Monday, November 4th and driving back to Providence to visit Brown on November 5th and flying home that night! I would have flown into Providence on Sunday, but it was $600 more EACH to fly on Sunday so it was cheaper to cover food, car and hotel for an extra day. I love Providence though, so that's fine with me We can meander Sunday between Providence and Ithaca so he can see both places well before the actual tours. Google maps says it is a 5 hour drive- that's not too bad.

His dad is going to take him to see Northwestern November 16th. I did Northwestern with Hypo so that's fine with me. I have an outlet mall shopping trip planned with a girlfriend for that day so that works out great! Christmas shopping

Cornell is my all-time favorite college campus, but it has been many years since I have been there. At the time, we did not visit Ithaca College, too. I've always wanted to go back to Ithaca to see Ithaca College, an older private college and Cornell's buildings again.

They remind me of the University of Kentucky and Transylvania (Transy) in Lexington, KY. One is a big university and the other a smaller private institution in the same town.

I am frequently in Evanston (IL) and on/around Northwestern's campus. It is beautiful and I love it, but have always personally preferred the campus at the University of Chicago.

Hypo and I went to the University of Chicago also. The older part of the campus is incredible but I found the art deco library and dorms to be at odds with the older section. Lots of campuses have a wide variety of architecture- from old to new- but U Chicago's just seemed more starkly different.

It's weird being proud of someone I don't know. But I am. :)

Halo has had a very busy and exciting senior year fall term. I never mentioned on here how Cornell ended up on his radar. He came home from the first day of school declaring "I love AP Stats, I want to go into social statistics." A week or two later, Cornell sent a viewbook on their Industrial and Labor Relations school and he read it. It was a very, very good fit with his interests. They have six areas of focus:
Collective Bargaining, Labor Law and Labor History
Human Resource Studies
International and Comparative Labor
Labor Economics
Organizational Behavior
Social Statistics
It seems like a super fit with his interests in politics, psychology, statistics and business.

This year, he has 3 AP classes- Stats, Calc and English along with a variety of business, creative writing and humanities electives. When he finishes, he will have taken all the AP courses offered and very few "fluff" courses. His electives this term are Virtual Enterprises (a business course) and Myths, Legends and Lore (humanities- Greek mythology, etc). In Virtual Enterprises, they are hooked into some kind of network across the country and develop a virtual business as a class. They had to apply for and interview for "jobs" and Halo is now the CEO of their business. He's loving that class.

He was also on Homecoming Court which took a lot of time over a couple weeks. He just finished up the varsity tennis season. As I said, it has been a very busy fall. He decided to try out for the school play and got a small speaking part in Dicken's Christmas Carol. He has never done drama before.

He just finished the last merit badge requirement that was outstanding for his Eagle so he needs to get his paperwork all submitted.

Seriously, I'm questioning him on how much he is committing to right now and have brought it up to him. He says he's fine, but he seems stressed out at times. Early Action deadlines are looming and he has not started his essays yet. I told him yesterday his essays for the Common App and Michigan need to be done next weekend. He said "I have until the next weekend, don't I?" I pointed out that 11/1 is a Friday so no, he doesn't!

Early Action schools:
University of Michigan - 11/1
Kalamazoo College- 11/15
Albion College- 12/1

Regular Decision schools:
Brown- 1/1
Northwestern-1/1
Cornell- 1/2
Oberlin- 1/15

He also has a new romance brewing. Oh my.

Getting kids to do these essays is the worst...everyone I know says their kids procrastinate. Encourage him to start his essays early enough so that he has time to sit on them, reflect, and revise. I think GenerallyGreek rushed some of her essays, and when she went back and reread a couple of them later in the year, she found things she would have changed.

The best essay was the one she did for her scholarship. She really took her time with that one, and had a couple teachers read it and give her feedback. The worst ones were the couple that she reworked from HS papers. Her Georgetown one fell into this category...I'm sure that was a stinker compared to others they received.

If Halo is going to apply to Northwestern, he should visit. GenerallyGreek was specially invited to visit the music dept., meet with professors, etc. She didn't think she wanted to major in music at the time, so she blew that off. Big mistake...even though she'd attended all those summer programs, I think that hurt her in the admissions dept. Guess who's now majoring in music...apparently they knew her better than she knew herself! Last year's Northwestern Gamma Phi chapter president told me that their admissions dept. definitely tracks contacts and visits (this comes from sisters who have had student worker jobs in admissions). We also found that off-site interviews were very limited, and she couldn't get one. Halo might have better luck, but I think they feel we're close enough to visit. If he isn't that serious about NU, I wouldn't bother with that application fee.

He's visiting NU with his dad in mid-November. Hypo visited and tried to get an interview but wasn't able to get a slot when they were here locally. She did get one with Wash U which happened to be at the same place at the same time. After her Wash U interview, we walked over to the NU interviews and she told them she wasn't able to get a slot during sign ups and she wondered if there were any cancellations. They interviewed her on the spot. That was total chance.

Brown, Northwestern and Cornell are all in the same category right now- He needs to see them to know whether he "feels it" there so all three are up in the air. He might apply to all 3, he might not apply to any of them. We'll see. I do think Cornell is much bigger than the schools he is favoring, but that program might make it worth it.

Plus, Cornell is in a pretty, woodsy location...it might feel smaller to him than the schools in cities.

Maybe, but he thought the school where you teach is too big (the rural campus!)and I thought it seemed really cool so... we'll see!

Ah! Cornell ILR School is also a state school--would that help in terms of cost? For OOS, I have no clue if its much cheaper than the endowed schools. It used to be that ILR and the Ag schools were considered a backdoor way in but they're actually really good.

My experience with Hypo is that, with our financial aid situation, most schools were within a couple thousand of each other no matter what their Total Cost of Attendance.

She enjoyed meeting you :)