I find this discussion all very amusing. Being on the college scene, I found that many women come to college only hearing about Delta or AKA...so out of that knowledge they rush to become members. But almost every person I know that worked for their letters in those organizations have either regretted their choice, remarked on the lack of sisterhood, or disassociated themselves with the other members with the large intake class. And I have seen some of these women in these large intake classes act a fool, not realizing what it really means to be a member of a Black Greek Lettered Organization(probably b/c of a lack of personal identity...)

At my school, we had a 25 member cap so we wouldn't have to deal with that foolishness of 40-200...the larger the numbers, the less chance for bonding and you lose the whole purpose of being a LINE to begin with(togetherness, knowing each other, supporting each other, working as a group and not individuals, etc...)...I really think with those kind of numbers, you cease to be a line and become an pledge class.....just like the WGLO's...

As I said before it is small pledge numbers for everyone of the sororities on my campus cause it is a small campus. I was just wondering though this last semester a sorority crossed a line of six and the sisterhood between them is weak! They do not hardly get along at all the bonding process just did not work in their favor. If it is true that big numbers is a cause of lack of bonding how would yall explain this? I am just wondering cause I would think that maybe in some cases big numbers may cause a lack of bonding but in most cases though, wouldn't it have more to do with the individual people and how they clique, their attitudes and reason for pledging in the first place? Than how many of them are actually on line?

RoadKitten
You wrote:
"the whole purpose of being a LINE to begin with(togetherness, knowing each other, supporting each other, working as a group and not individuals, etc...)...I really think with those kind of numbers, you cease to be a line and become an pledge class.....just like the WGLO's..."

I have two questions.
1. Why do you think pledge classes aren't intended to do the same thing?

2. What do you percieve to be the difference between a pledge line and a pledge class?

I'm actually curious as to these answers. I'm not trying to cause an arguement or anything. I kind of always thought that lines and classes were pretty much the same.

I fully agree with you Finer. First of all Zeta's were founded at Howard also so It is not like there is "less of a following" or something. Not only that, but I really find it hard to believ that 128 people can bond. Now don't get me wrong, if they do then I give them much props because I have four sands and I know that I am constantly learning about them. But now that I think about it, maybe I shouldn't judge all chapters by my chapters standard (not to be said as a put down..just for lost of better words.) In my chapter we really...I mean really got to know each other. I know things about my line sisters that no one else does and I just can't see being that close to 128 people if I know them for 128 years. I love my sisters and would do absoluty anything for them and I know they feel the same. I also wonder how in the heck do you remeber info about your sands when you have 127 of them, because I had enough trouble remebering my lit on-line....lol.
Anyhow, no disrespect to anyone because we are all out to uplift the same community, I just want to make sure that you are doing it the right thing. Good luck and congrats on the commitment by these ladies.

I understand exactly what you are saying. I am proud of the fact that I know all of my big sisters number and line names, when they crossed and how they did. I also must say that I don't feel that the bond you have with your sands is something that is easily forgotten once you hit grad chapter, and if it is, then something is terribly wrong

All that I have to say is AMEN soror

What you are saying can and probably is true, but one thing that you must consider is that if there are only a few sorors there then obviously they are not going to be able to do as much work as twenty can. Therefore, I look at it like this and I think everyon can understnad this one:

while you were a undergrad in school, you know that you had your "bird" classes and you hard classes. And I will tell you that the classes that you worked hard for and barely pulled a b out of gave you more satisfaction than those A+ bird classes. So basically..metaphors aside. If three girls can bring in four than that means they are doing great because they are out there working.

After reading this thread, I did some research just to see what Zeta Phi Beta Sorority was all about. I was impressed with the fact that this organization was not at all concerned with taking in new members. In the course of my research, I found some rather interesting information. It seems that ZPhiB is more interested in NUMBERS than anyone here cares to admit. The Zeta Phi Beta (inter)national website refers to a program called GOAL 2000 (under the heading of Chapter Management). It seems the purpose of the program is "having each region add a minimum of 2,000 members to the roster by the year 2,000." That sounds like a RECRUITMENT plan to me! I found nothing about actively recruiting new members on any of the other NPHC sorority websites. The ZphiB website also states that that there are currently 600 chapters in 8 regions. Lets see that's 8 regions times 2000 NEW members= 16,000 NEW members! Ok, when we divide that by 600 chapters, each chapter would have to intiate approximately 27 NEW members by 2000 (and that's the minimum). That sounded doable; until I started looking at chapter websites. MOST of the chapters I saw had initiated between one and ten new members over the last two years (assuming the boule is every two years). Even on the HBCU campuses the number was rarely over 15! So, by "deliberately" restricting the number on each line to a small number, many Zeta chapters probably haven't met the recruitment goals set forth by the national office. Alpha Chapter must be taking up a LOT of slack!

I am not presenting any of this to be disrepectful to the members of Zeta Phi Beta. It's just that the FACTS do not bear out what I've read from the Zetas in this discussion (especially from the Zeta who implied that AKA and Delta have no sisterhood because they are large organizations). While I am sure ZPhiB only takes QUALITY women, QUANTITY IS IMPORTANT to Zeta Phi Beta Sorority, your national office says so!

Just the facts>

No one implied that AKA and Delta do not have sisterhood because they have more members. She said that she felt it was hard for a new intake line to bond with so many members. AKA and Delta have a strong sisterhood.

On our International website, you read about chapter management, good research BUT nowhere does that say new members. It says that one of the overall objectives is:

"To implement GOAL 2000 by having each region add a minimum of 2,000 members to the roster by the year 2,000."

I assure you that attaining numbers are not even close to the top of the list of Zeta's goals. I will not delve any farther than that.

I commend you for doing your research. The International website is a good portal of information about Zeta, but it is not at all comprehensive of Zeta's goals.

ZetaAce

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ZetaAce:
[b]Just the facts>

No one implied that AKA and Delta do not have sisterhood because they have more members. She said that she felt it was hard for a new intake line to bond with so many members. AKA and Delta have a strong sisterhood.

On our International website, you read about chapter management, good research BUT nowhere does that say new members.

Well now I am confused. Doesn't the statement "adding 2000 members to the roster"
imply that those people are not currently ON the roster and therefore NEW MEMBERS? If you are currently a member aren't you already included on the roster? Does your website only count ACTIVE members in the number of members?

http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif Thank you for your interest.However in your mathematical equation, you left out quite a few variables that you do not have...nor should you have. For starters,the National website is an outline...not the gospel.

My sorority has effective communication modules that need not be expounded on publically. Since, you are not a member, you have but a bird's eyeview of the broad scope of the plan. I am sure you do not expect myself or any of my Sorors to engage in petty banter of what you "think" are facts. As I would not sit here and debate any member of the other 3 sororities about the details of their National programmatic thrusts in "un-informed query" I would ask that you give the same respect to mine.

ZetaAce


[This message has been edited by ZetaAce (edited June 05, 2000).]

I don't see why any sorority would not be happy about adding to their numbers? Maybe I am just naive here. Panhellenic sets our quota- which is usually around 65 girls. It was good to have that many because it teaches you how to work with many different personalities. This is helping me in finding a job, because I have learned how to work as a team. And there is absolutely no reason to be bashing Zeta Phi Beta- I go to a private baptist university, and Zeta (fairly new) has grown really fast and is doing great things for the university and the community-that's the point of sisterhood, working together, making a difference on your community, and having fun! and if you are going to take the time to look up someone's by-laws, please don't use them against them. It's hard to understand someone's bylaws, creed, symbols, etc. when you aren't in the organization. So you could be apt to interpret things wrong, thereby losing credibility.

I have two questions.
1. Why do you think pledge classes aren't intended to do the same thing?
*****
Of course they are intended to, but it is difficult just to get 5, 10, or 15 women working together and getting to know each other, I dare not imagine 100.
*****
2. What do you percieve to be the difference between a pledge line and a pledge class?
*****
The bonding is different. I am not saying that 40-200 women can not bond in some way, but the closeness is just not the same, and you wouldn't understand unless you had a smaller line.
*****
I kind of always thought that lines and classes were pretty much the same.[/B]
*****
nope they ARE NOT the same.

[/QUOTE]

Kappa you said....

The truth is all Sororities are interested in the growth of their membership whether they publicize it or not. The truth of the matter is, despite what you have interpreted to be our goals, we focus on quality and not quantity. I would rather have 5 hard working Sorors anyday over 100 dazed and confused ones.....Also, nowhere on our National Website are our by-laws and neither it this tenet of our Grand's 7 point plan of action. But all and all I agree with u Kappa-97%

oh, I was replying to both the Kappa and the justthefacts in the previous post.

RoadKitten

My pledge CLASS only had THREE girls. So I'm still confused as to what the difference is between a line and a class. Can you give examples of how they differ? If you "aren't allowed"/can't, I understand. But I'd really like some clarification.

You refered to pledge classes of 40-200 girls. Do you go to a school with a huge greek system?
At my school 20 would be considered a huge class. The school is huge but has a small greek system in numbers but large in chapters (8 NPC, 10 IFC, 4 Asian GLOs, 3 Hispanic GLOs, and representaion of most of the BGLOs)

LADIES I SEE THAT THIS FORUM HAS TAKEN OFF. HEY DO NOT LOSE THE LOVE OKAY. MOST PEOPLE HAVE BEEN POSTING POS. BUT SOME ARE DIPPING TO THE NEGATIVE. DON'T LOSE THE LOVE. TRY AND REMEMBER WHAT WORKS FOR SOME ORGS. OR EVEN INDIVIDUAL CHAPTERS MAY NOT WORK FOR OTHERS, AND IN THIS CASE,THAT DOES NOT MAKE IT BAD OR WRONG. IF BIG NUMBERS WORK FOR SOME AND SMALL WORKS FOR SOME HEY LONG AS IT IS WORKING. DO NOT LOSE THE LOVE! THATS JUST MY 18.12 CENTS.(SMILE)

Correct me if I am wrong, but the idea that NPC sororities have huge pledge classes is one of the biggest misconceptions about NPC rush. I went to a predominately white college, so I got to see some of the 'goings on' and although the Rush period starts as one big group, the pledge classes (i.e. after bids are given out) are much smaller.

SoCalGirl>The main difference between pledge lines and pledge classes are the traditions. Also, there are some schools where 50+ pledge lines are the norm. I've never heard of a line or pledge class with 200.

Like prettygyrl said, what works for some orgs might not work for the others. Shucks, what works for one CHAPTER might not work for another! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

ZetaAce

Soror Zetaace...I have heard of a BGLO line with 200 or 201 (something like that). I am sure that it does not happen often but on occassion some folks have VERY large lines (over 85 people).

P.S. I am the talkative (chatty) old school Soror that y'all love so much on spot for the true blue sorors. Don't say my name here. I used to be kinder and gentle, now I am lovey dovey.

Nice nickname Lovey Dovey! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/cool.gif

ZetaAce

[This message has been edited by ZetaAce (edited June 07, 2000).]

I like it too Big Sister Lovey Dovey http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif



------------------
Zeta Phi Beta Sorority, Incorporated...Every Finer Woman's Dream!

Hmmm...our pledge class originally had 7...then, 2 dropped out, so it was just us 5. I'm pretty close to all of them, definitely more than if we had had one of those pledge classes of like, 25, or even 50. I'm from Florida, so I have a lot of friends who did pledge NPC groups at UF or FSU, with these massive pledge classes (I think one had 150 on Bid Day?). But, those are schools with much more prominent Greek systems than my school. I am Rush Chair for next year, and I intend on rushing a larger pledge class than mine was, for reasons other than numbers (but, yeah...I think it'd rock to have a pledge class with more members than you can count on one hand!).
I still don't know the difference between pledge lines and pledge classes...I know that like, during official business, we were lined up in alphabetical order? Is this similar to the pledge lines in BGLOs? I'd like to know...if anyone is willing to share this (I'm not sure if it has anything to do with your rituals, etc.). We didn't have like, numbers or anything.

I agree with PositivelyAKA 100% You cannot comment or make judgements on a situation if you have no knowledge of it. Don't just assume that large lines don't bond. At my school, FAMU, the cap is 40. I don't consider a line of 35 to be a large line. It's average to me. The Kappas just had a line of over 30. And so what? We are a HBCU with a population of 12,000. I transfered from a white school were the BGLO's were struggling for members. The lines averaged about 2-5 not because they were so selective but because hardly anyone was interested! They actively recruited members. And it is known that on my campus the Deltas and AKA's always have more interested girls. They don't "host" large rushes. It just turns out that a lot of girls show up because their interest is bigger.

I believe that quality can reflect upon quantity. The sorority I WAS a part of was the smallest one on campus. There were girls including me, who regretted pledging and/or initiating for that sorority. Their problem is that XYZ is the smallest sorority on campus, and are in danger of loosing their charter. Therefore, in order to keep the numbers up, they have to be less selective. Being less selective can be both a good thing and a bad thing. Use common sense to figure out why can be a good thing. It (in my case)can be bad, because they may extend bids to girls that they do not like that much, in order to fill their quotas and to have races with other sororities on campus.

Hummmm......your [former] sorority was 'less selective' and they chose you. Wonder if anyone else sees a correlation here? http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif

Sorry! I couldn't resist! he he

yeah, and the point being made was.......?

ROFLMAO! That was PERFECT! And who has the time or energy to keep bringing stuff back from the dead?!

Dear Resident Psycho - go away - we don't want you here. Go tell the guys in the uniforms to take you back to that nice padded room where you can beat your head on the wall and no one has to listen to it. Thank you!

Hi prettypoodle6,
Was this in reference to my post? If it was my "point" was that by (I can't remember her name) saying that her sorority is "less selective" and they will pretty much take anyone she is not saying a lot about her self. I found it amusing. Now, if you weren't talking about my post, well....never mind http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif ((sounding like Gilda Radner as that anoying little woman who was always messing up news stories on Saturday Night Live))

Positively AKA It was wrong of you to say that only two sororities are prestigious. I am not yet a member of any org., and even with consideration to the fact that you are proud of being AKA I don't understand how you can disrespect other orgs. who even up to this point have not bashed ur org. Well....what happened to that famous AKA poem...God said I'll make woman...and goes on to say one who puts "petty things aside" what you said was in bad taste and ..yes..PETTY http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/frown.gif

Hey stupid,

Which sorority were you in? Were you an APhi? or what about AST? or DPhiE? or were you a member of the NPHC sororities at SIUE?

I think many people are curious to know your Greek affiliation since you love talking about it. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif

Alpha Gamma Delta! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif

Oh yeah, currently I am in Alpha Phi Omega.

That's odd. I just checked out SIUE's website and Alpha Gamma Delta isn't listed as a student organization, although all of the fraternities and sororities on campus are in the list... hmmm...

I am completely taken aback by this bald-faced lie. Alpha Gamma Delta has never even chartered a chapter at SIU-Edwardsville. We do have a chapter at SIU-Carbondale, and ours happens to be one of the top houses on that campus. I cannot express how angry I am that someone would attempt to discredit my organization in this way for no apparent reason other than (apparently) to annoy OohTeenyWahine.

I am sure all Greek Chat users realize that Alpha Gamma Delta does not stand for anything this person has alleged, and that you will completely ignore everything this malicious person tries to make you believe.

[This message has been edited by PearlyRose (edited April 24, 2001).]

DZRose and fellow GCers:

How dare she imply that AGD had lost their charter!!! AGD does NOT have a chapter at SIU-Edwardsville, but they do have one at the Carbondale campus.

Stupid merely wishes she could be an AGD, that's why she's so quick to speak negatively about my organization. Judging from her character in her posts, I'd say that AGD probably would never extend a bid out to this person.

I'll bet money that stupid's part of the tag team...

[This message has been edited by OohTeenyWahine (edited April 24, 2001).]

Let's see. Your stories are getting so tangled up that your lies are tripping you up. You want to know why some sororities wear white dresses for initiation, yet OTW has told us that AGD wears white. You wrote in horribly ungrammatical language the first time and now you're suddenly literate. You posted all this crap about still being a member of your GLO and now you say it's gone.
(Easily checkable.) Guess who we think you are. (strains of "Dueling Banjos" in the background...)

"Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive."

Chill out! That was for OTW.
I'm sure you heard worse.

To go around lying about being a member of a particular sorority is bad enough -- but to make up some crap about a chapter having its charter pulled -- just because you don't care for one of its members on GreekChat -- is much, much worse. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/mad.gif It's immature and completely uncalled for.

I think I was on drugs the first time. :scratcheshead:

I think you 2 stay on drugs. Normal people simply do not behave that way. Too bad you screwed up your only chance at Greek membership but if you think anyone else wants you after what you've done.....