My friend had surgery and doing physically well. Thank you for the prayers. Please keep them coming for the families of those who lost loved ones. This will take a long time to recover from; it seems everyone I know, knows at least one or two of the victims. It's a small town, and everyone knows everyone. This corner of CT is "small" in that way.

I'm always amused by the God given right sentiment since I'm pretty sure God didn't write the 2nd amendment and guns weren't around at the time of the Bible.

http://bobkaylor.typepad.com/.a/6a00...445928a4-800wi

Some folks apparently think this is a picture of the first presentation of the Bill of Rights.

Hey NRA! Let us know when it's ok to start discussing gun control, ok? It's obvious that you're in charge here.

I'm am sickened and disgusted, and I'm angry. Those poor children whose last moments were spent in sheer terror. The parents whose hopes and dreams for their children disappeared in a matter of minutes. I really hope the country can finally have a productive discussion about how we can eliminate this from ever happening again. The CO theater massacre, the Sikh temple massacre, the mall shooting in OR.... I hope the NRA will stop blocking every discussion we have. Maybe the solution isn't gun control. Perhaps it's better access to mental health programs. But, until the NRA stops telling us we're not allowed to discuss a solution to this problem every time something like this happens, we are going to have more of these senseless killings. The blood is on the NRA's hands.

And I'm sick of religious zealots saying that owning a gun is a God-given right mandated by the bible. It's not. And you do a disservice to anyone innocently killed by a gun by streaming that line of bullshit.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Way to throw personal responsibility out the door. Blood is on the shooters hands. This was his decision, his actions. NRA isn't to blame, nor is an inanimate object (gun).

:rolleyes:

Absolutely they're to blame in this. They blockade any discussion that any politician in this country can have about gun-rights and how to prevent irresponsible people from getting a hold of one.

School shootings are actually dramatically down over the last couple of decades. So are homicides in general. That's without the passage of any significant gun control legislation.

http://thepublicintellectual.org/wp-...-2-300x236.jpg

Sorry to bring facts into this discussion, but emotional catharsis is not a good excuse to restrict gun ownership.

I'm not advocating for restricting gun ownership. In fact, in my original post, I stated that hopefully a meaningful discussion can be had about preventing this problem which includes better access to mental health services. The problem is that any time this issue is discussed the NRA jumps in with, "Nope! Now is not the time to talk about it! You're not taking my guns!" The politicians have been too afraid to discuss this issue because of the backlash they'll receive. Instead, we have a country with a mental health system that fails. This should've come up for discussion back during Columbine, VA Tech, Fort Hood....but it didn't. And that's unfortunate.

The trouble is, every once in awhile, there are just really bad people out there who do bad things. The kid wasn't lawfully in possession of those guns. We don't even have any great evidence that there was ever an opportunity for mental health intervention or warning signs or anything like that.

And as far as our mental health system goes, yes, it's pretty badly underfunded, but considering our 'free market' approach to healthcare and the fact that mentally ill people are hardly ever of significant means or even employed, unless we were to nationalize healthcare I don't really see things changing.

THIS. I am not attached to any one policy or solution (restrict automatics? better background checks? something else?) because I don't know what works. I am not an expert. I haven't read all of the studies. The problem is that any attempt to even TALK about the issue is met with so much resistance that we can't make any meaningful progress on getting down to the root causes and coming up with real solutions.

For example, everyone points to Chicago: handguns are banned but crime is high. Does that mean handgun bans don't work? Well, no, if anything, it means that a handgun ban in a city surrounded by many, many other cities/towns without handgun bans doesn't work.

I don't at all like the idea of the government being armed while the citizens are not. I am far to the left on civil liberties, and I'm not sure that it's intellectually honest to be for drugs, orgies, and abortions, while against gun ownership. But I do know that something is wrong, and I want to talk about it without being immediately shouted down by the NRA.

Before we TALK about an issue, we'd probably have to agree that there actually is an issue.

Violent crime is on the decline in this country and that's objective fact.

So the fact that violent crime is on the decline means that school shootings aren't a problem? This is exactly what I am talking about; the efforts to immediate shoot down any conversation on the topic.

School shootings are a problem on a steep decline. The media coverage of these events and the way they are covered is what's different. We'll always have sociopaths who do bad things and we can't really pretend that passing laws is going to fix that.

First, prayers for all directly affected by this terrible tragedy.

Second and slightly off-topic, please help if you remember watching something like this: Recently on ABC/CBS/NBC Nightly News, U.S. children with the name "Sandy" in their town or their school were profiled. They were collecting items or money or making thoughtful cards for those affected by Superstorm "Sandy" due to the "Sandy/Sandy" connection. Were the kids in that story children from this Connecticut "Sandy" school?

Can't find any info on possible connection online; perhaps with the tragedy National News pulled any references it had offline.

I personally am of the opinion that yes, assault-style weapons need to be heavily regulated. However, I believe that a full weapons ban (handguns, hunting-style weapons included) isn't the answer. People have always called for knee-jerk reactions to events that are statistical anomalies...look at your security line at the airport.

In my eyes, guns can't walk into a bank and rob it, someone has to be behind that weapon. Unfortunately, human thought, emotions, and reactions can't be regulated, as much as people would like it to be.

Honestly, no amount of laws, metal detectors, searches... Nothing can stop someone who is that messed up in the head and that determined to kill. I agree something needs to be done, but I don't think gun control is the answer. Obviously, the shooter didn't care that murder is illegal. So why would he care if having a gun was illegal? Someone like that will always find a way, no matter what the law is.

Most of these killings were accomplished by handguns.

Glad to hear this!
 

So glad to hear that your friend is out of surgery and is physically doing well. I will continue to offer positive thoughts and prayers for all of those affected in this horrible tragedy.

I'm really not one to jump on the gun-banning bandwagon.

First part of the short answer, I think it's a knee-jerk, overly-simplistic "solution" to a complex problem that won't really solve anything. Rest of the short answer: The NRA/gun rights lobby is equally guilty of knee-jerk, overly-simplistic defensiveness that doesn't solve anything.

As for the bolded, I truly respect your right to your opinion, and I will defend your right to state that opinion. I have a right to state my opinion as well, and my opinion is one of strong disagreement with the suggestion that it is creator-given right to own a hunting rifle.

It is a creator-given right to have the food we need. If that hunting rifle is necessary for food, then I might concede the point. But that is rarely the case, at least in this country. Recreation on the terms we like is not a creator-given right.


Me too. It does more than rub me the wrong way.


ree-Xi, glad your friend is doing okay.

This. Other countries (England springs to mind first) have very strict gun laws, and they still have mass shootings. Gun control isn't enough. Access to mental health care isn't enough. Everyone HAS access to emergency mental health care - just walk into the ER and tell the staff you're thinking about killing some kids. Boom, instant access. The real problem is the culture, the stigma associated with mental illness and its treatment. This guy may not have wanted any help, especially if he was psychotic. If he had no insight into his illness, the responsibility then falls (maybe unfairly, but there you go) to the people around him, like his family, to notice that there is a problem and to make sure that he receives treatment, voluntarily or involuntarily. Had anyone around him noticed what was going on with him? One call to 911 reporting concern that this guy was a danger to himself or others might have been enough to stop this. Especially given this:

"I think the most important thing to point out with this kind of individual is that he did not snap this morning and decide to act out violently," said former FBI profiler Mary Ellen O'Toole. "These acts involve planning and thoughtfulness and strategizing in order to put the plan together so what may appear to be snap behavior is not that at all."

Comment I heard at a Christmas gathering last night:

Perhaps we ought to be keeping track of who buys things like Kevlar vests. I mean. who outside the military and law enforcement needs stuff like that? But the killers in cases like this always seem to have them.

Not a completely crazy idea, I thought.

I seriously need to stop reading all of this, because it's making me physically sick. Those children were shot at close range, multiple times.

A lot of my friends, today, are posting about their own struggles with mental illness, and how we can remove the stigma. It's tough, even though my social circle consists largely of well-educated, privileged white kids who have access to healthcare, etc.

I just read that Westboro Baptist "Church" is going to picket the funerals and is praising God for this tragedy. Sick fucks. Pardon my French but there is no other way to put it. I wish I could be a fly on the wall when they finally face God. I know that's really judgmental but there's no way He approves of their shit.

^ how disgusting. No parent should have to bury their child, especially with people like that around. Give them the privacy they deserve.

Seven Myths of Mass Murder
 

Of course they are. I had forgotten about those morons. :mad:

That is truly disgusting. :mad:

Whaaa? Where in the Bible does it say, "Thou shalt have a Baikal MR221?"

Look, I don't want to see guns banned, either. There's a reason we have a Second Amendment, and it's obvious that the Founding Fathers felt it important to include that in the Bill of Rights. I grew up around hunting, and I'm not afraid of guns. My nephew is 12 and has a hunting rifle, as well as a bow and arrow. He knows how to use them and he respects what they can do.

I just think what you said is not only incorrect, but a little overly emotional.

An attempt to ban guns would fail miserably. What would they do, seize all guns? Go through people's houses, conducting random firearm searches? (THAT would violate the Bill of Rights.) Not all firearms are registered, either. People inherit firearms from family members all the time.

If someone wants to have a gun, they're going to have a gun--regardless of whether or not it's illegal.* A member of my extended family was shot and killed earlier this year--by a 16 YEAR OLD IN A BOTCHED ROBBERY. This wasn't the inner city, and it wasn't a small town. I'm pretty sure gun banning wouldn't have prevented my relative's death. I'm pretty sure gun banning wouldn't have prevented what happened in CT, either. For the gunman, firearms were readily available--but he could have gotten them anywhere.

(*This clearly applies to many things, ranging from drugs to Kinder Surprises.)

Fox News was just showing pictures of one of the little girls killed in the shooting. I lost it. I keep thinking of the kiddos at my school.

I think everyone should have as many guns as they want, just ban bullets and ammunition!

Has anyone ever seen any studies done on the connection between these violent crimes and people who have been on Ritalin or other medications? I seem to recall that whenever these events took place some reporter would mention that the perp had either stopped medication or something.....just curious if maybe there is something to over medication of our youth....

My daughter and I had the discussion last night. She turns 7 this week.

What I said "Baby, I don't want you to be afraid but I want to talk to you about something awful that happened today. An evil man walked into a school in another state, and he killed a lot of kids and teachers. They are angels now. It's important that you say a prayer for them and their moms and dads and brothers and sisters because they will be sad for a very long time. I wanted to talk to you about it first though, before you saw it on the news and got scared, or before you hear people talking about it at school. Don't be afraid of going to school. Your teacher will always protect you. But it is important that you always listen to her during an emergency. If there's a fire, a tornado, or a stranger in the school, you always listen to what she says and do what she asks very quickly."

Her first questions were; why would someone want to kill a lot of kids? (I don't know honey, he was a very ill person, his mind wasn't right). What were the kids names? (I don't know but if you want me to tell you when I find out, I will). Is the evil guy going to go to another school? (No, he is dead. He killed himself because he knew what he did was a horrible awful thing).

She got teary eyed and asked if she could snuggle in my bed for a while. I obliged. We talked about it a little more today, about how important it is to hide if something like this happened at her school.

Ritalin doesn't make people kill. You know the first ADHD kids are now in their thirties, right? We have 30+ years of experience with this drug, and to try and pin what some people are doing now on a drug that has been safely used for that period of time is ludicrous.

Ok, I guess I meant that as an example, but what I really meant was all the anti depressants and other medications that I've read are being given to kids at a much higher rate than 30 yrs ago.....

Bg

Oh god, I heard this earlier and just CRINGED. Such irresponsible reporting.

Information from CNN's site, including information from the medical examiner:

Lanza was found dead next to three guns, a semi-automatic .223-caliber Bushmaster rifle and two pistols made by Glock and Sig Sauer, a law enforcement source told CNN. All belonged to his mother.
Carver, who performed autopsies on seven of the victims, said the wounds he knew about were caused by a "long weapon." Asked by a reporter whether the rifle was the primary weapon, he responded, "Yes."

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/15/us/con...html?hpt=hp_t1