Agreed plus forcing them to go co-ed defeats what the core of a fraternity or sorority is....i like that alumni are threatening with holding donations just hope there is enough money at stake that the school releases how ridiculous this idea is

No idea. It was a photo being auctioned on Ebay.

Trinity is kind of a weird school. It's really not in a great area at all (I work in Hartford, grew up in the region and am familiar with the area), but markets itself as a upper-echelon school. Plus, there's a similar school nearby (Wesleyan) with a better academic reputation and in a safer area (Middletown). I work with some Trinity grads who are very bright and have done well, so they are doing something right academically.

I didn't realize they were stingy on aid; I got some academic prize in high school where they paid for my admission fee and I ended up with some solid academic scholarship offers. That may have been an effort to attract local kids, though.

ETA: For the list of orgs, I think Kappa Sig also has a chapter at the school.

Sigh, I think there may be a few Psi Upsilon and Alpha Delta Phi brothers who may disagree with you.

BTW, does anyone know if those two are the only NIC members with female members? (Not sure if the ADPhi that is a member of the NIC is just the fraternity or if the Fraternity and the Society are represented)...

Also, does anyone know if this forced change to co-ed has ever happened before?

I guess all of the co-ed fraternities out there missed that memo.

I get what you're saying. After all, my fraternity has direct experience with this and fought to stay single-sex. For many, the single-sex nature of many GLOs is part of the appeal. But not for everyone.

The problem is not whether GLOs are single-sex or co-ed. The problem is someone on the outside trying to force them to be what they don't want to be.


Just the fraternity is a member of the NIC. Alpha Delta Phi Fraternity is not co-ed. Alpha Delta Phi Society, formed of some chapters that broke away from Alpha Delta Phi Fraternity over the co-ed issue, considers itself a literary society, not a fraternity. The two groups share the Greek letters, symbols, history and (I think) ritual, but they are separate organizations.

Delta Psi (St. Anthony Hall) is co-ed and is an NIC member. It and Psi U are the only co-ed NIC fraternities I can think of right now.

Agreed, force them to be something they don't want to be. *But*, viewed from the *outside*, forcing all the greek letter organizations to admit both men and women isn't that different from forcing them to admit Negros or Jews. I'm definitely *not* saying that this should be forced, but it should be kept in mind the way that those making the decision are seeing the parallels ...

In addition, I'm curious whether Delta Psi (St. Anthony's Hall) has a *significantly* better track record legally than the other fraternities and the sororities? (fewer arrests for underage drinking, etc.). It doesn't sound like that was the reason from the original article. It was more like, we want to transform our student life and making sure that all students can join all groups is one of the things we want to do. Note, getting rid of the pledging period is also one of the rules as is a proposed 3.2 house average, so this sweep may also affect Delta Psi (no idea what Delta Psi's new membership policy looks like). I truly wonder if Delta Psi wasn't there as an example, whether they would have just nuked all of the social GLOs.

It happened at Amherst way back when. The story i heard is that all the Greek Organization were forced to initiate women. The Gamma of Psi U got away with it for a few years by submiting first initials only on the membership form, but eventually they started to submit whole names and got caught. They were brought to the carpet at Convention and were able to successfully able to argue that they didn't violate the tenets of Psi Upsilon. The constitution never says that a member needs to be a male. Granted they probably didn't see that as something that had to be addressed since colleges were mostly all male at that point anyway.

Interesting. I like the logic.

I think that parents who had a choice of their 18 year old daughter living with 1) a Jewish woman 2) a Black woman 3) an 18 year old male would highly disagree.

I've met a woman (friend of my mother's) whose parents found 2 & 3 equally unacceptable.

Unfortunately, that is a really heteronormative view of the situation.

I've read articles about when the infamous Yale Secret societies had to go Co-Ed!! Boy that had to be a tough sell to the old boys networks and alumni!!
Referring to Skull and Bones and Scroll and Key an Wolfshead, although I'm not positive if Wolfshead is coed or not.....

BG

Oh yeah, there was a girl on my floor who she and her parents met the Black roommate on day 1 and promptly moved her stuff out. But if it was a choice between living there and living with a guy I'm pretty sure I know which they would have picked. (We are talking old school dorm rooms here, not suites with individual bedrooms)

It is, but the point is that sex organs =/= skin color or religion. Fraternities and sororities have been admitting people of various colors and religions for quite a while now and they're still identifiable as fraternities and sororities. I believe that if all fraternities and sororities were forced to admit people of the opposite sex, the Greek system would morph into something completely different.

Here's the other thing in this scenario - have there been actual men trying to join the sororities and upset that they can't, or vice versa? The whole "we want to give all students the opportunity to join" rings quite holllow when there's no evidence that any of the students want the "opportunity" that they are trying to create. When Dartmouth went coed, some of the fraternities also went coed on their own, without the school forcing them to do so.

Her parents would have made her go to a different university if 2 & 3 were the only options...

I'm not totally sure how the GLO system would change, Title IX certainly did a number of the Honoraries, but definitely not the same level.

Well, at least *some* students want the option, Delta Psi's chapter is currently co-ed.

Wait... I just figured it out. There would be men who would want to join Sororities, they aren't willing to put up with Gamma Rhos, ranking sororities, cross-cutting and other parts of NPC rush. Since the NPHC sororities don't have that, that's why you get groups like MIAKA. :)

Yeah, we all know about the topless pillow fights and whatnot.

The race/religion thing doesn't really fly. The core of our business is that we are residential associations which offer alternatives to ordinary student life, a degree of exclusivity, superior access to opportunities created by alumni, etc. The residential aspect is where our organizations are able to acquire money to invest back into themselves, etc.

If Trinity is only offering co-ed dorms, we could say they were being consistent here. I strongly doubt that is the case.

My guess is that we are at least two generations from any significant college selecting roommates for Freshmen at random from the entire Freshman class regardless of gender...

I do not know of any examples at Trinity with men wanting to join sororities; however, this has come up in a couple of cases.

I remember one of these from 10-15 years ago at Indiana. In that case men that wanted to make the case that because of housing inequalities that they should be allowed to join sororities.

Coed dorms =/= coed ROOMS.

That residential aspect is not true of all fraternities and sororities, or of all campuses, though, so I don't know that that can be considered the "core" of the (social) Greek enterprise.

Would it be offensive to say it's the core of traditional Greek enterprise? You'd have to concede, your fraternity comes from a unique vantage.

Sure, we do have a different vantage point on housing, as relatively few of our chapters are housed and nationally we don't encourage it.

And I wouldn't be offended by someone saying it's the core of the "traditional Greek experience" -- and I'll concede ours is not the "traditional Greek experience" -- but I would probably quibble a bit and ask "whose tradition?" :D My father was a Kappa Sig whose chapter had no house until he was a senior (and married), and my grandfather and uncle were Betas at a school with lodges but no houses, so none of them ever lived in a chapter house.

There's no doubt that in the minds of many Greeks and non-Greeks, chapter houses are synonymous with Greek life and are part of the "Greek experience" that many students seek. But when I quibble, I'm thinking of things like:

• Fraternities had been around for quite a while before chapter houses became a common feature of fraternity life;
• There are campuses that don't have fraternity and/or sorority housing, even among groups (primarily NIC or NPC) for whom housing is common;
• Even on campuses where houses are common, there are often unhoused chapters of (NIC and NPC) groups*;
• Many if not most housed chapters have members who don't live in house;
• Many housed chapters rent, either from their college or from someone else, so in those cases the housing has nothing to do with providing GLOs with money to re-invest in themselves; and
• Housing is not the norm for NPHC groups.

My quibble is that I don't think housing association aspects of Greek life can be considered "core" if the groups for whom it is common allow and support unhoused chapters. "Core" implies "at the heart of what we're about," so if housing is "core," then unhoused chapters can't live up to what is at the heart of what their orgs are about.

It seems to me that the "core" of the Greek enterprise is brotherhood/sisterhood based on shared allegiance to certain values, principles or ideals. Without a doubt, chapter housing can foster and support that brotherhood or sisterhood. But it can exist without it. That's what I was getting at.


* Granted, these chapters are often working toward housing, but while the lack of housing may affect their competitiveness, does it keep them from fully experiencing brotherhood or sisterhood?

Speaking from experience, I'd have to say yes. At least for me.

Fair enough.

Didn't you have members who lived together in apartments or dorms even before you had a house? I mean you had to know that in a colony it wasn't going to be the same as an established chapter, in many ways.

With maybe one exception, that's what we did -- brothers roomed together in dorms, apartments or houses. One or two of the houses or apartments were standard social gathering places. I think that's pretty common in our chapters.

When I think about what Greek orgs have that other groups don't, it's actually the membership selection process that seems most distinct.

I agree. Add to that: being part of a larger org. I suppose students who joined clubs like Key Club (Golden Key?), NOW, NCNW or an org that has campus-based affiliations could say the same, but the selection process/criteria stands out/sets us apart.

That's a damned good memory.

We kind of did, but it was never as central as a house. Our first small house really changed things. It only slept 3 and we're now looking at major expansion and investment. We don't get money from HQ and have to raise from alumni, so that's kind of limiting, but suffice to say, having a house is a key to our future plans.

Not much of a greek life at Trinity.
I imagine the couple of nationals on campus if forced to go coed may just pull off of campus.

LOL not really, I just assumed that you did since that's what most colonies/chapters without a house do. I completely understand what you mean that having a house, no matter how small, makes things different.

The ASTs on my campus were in a dorm suite for years and were the last ones to give it up when the other groups were all getting houses. They REALLY struggled with getting to a cohesive point and finding a house that worked for them.

Seeking Trinity college students connected with IKA
 

I am seeking any trinity students who may be connected with or knows about the IKA society located at the school.

Please PM me if you know someone or are someone connected with this society,

Thanks
badgeguy

Trinity President Decides To Drop Plan To Make Fraternities Coed

"After three years of attempting to carry out a plan forcing fraternities and sororities to go coed, Trinity College's president has decided to abandon that effort.

Joanne Berger-Sweeney, the college's president, said in an email to the college community Friday that after conversations with students, faculty, alumni and others during the 15 months since her appointment, "I have concluded that the coed mandate is unlikely to achieve its intended goal of gender equity." "

http://www.courant.com/news/connecti...904-story.html