Not necessarily.

Not necessarily.

Moms (and dads) who do this are setting their children up for heartbreak and regret. Talk about a helicopter parent!

I think someone who wants their daughter to choose their lifelong friends based on costs would be more of a Yugo parent.

Hands down best post of the day, maybe even week. I giggled :D

Now that was a good wine I just spewed all over my laptop screen!

Titchou....someday you will have kids and you will understand the difference between helicopter parenting and just plain parenting. I am not running her life, but I have to make sure that she understands the ramifications of her choices. No she cannot work, this is not her decision, but one that highly advised by the Dean of her major. Trust me, I worked 40 hours a week and finished my last 2 years of school in 1 1/2, on dean's list. Hard work doesn't scare her.

Sorry, but this is a "WE" decision. WE are paying the bills and SHE needs to be aware of the cost factor. We need to consider the needs of the family as a whole. This is difficult to do when the financial information is about impossible to find. No my D did not get his information prior to recruitment, no they did not hand it out at Preview, no we cannot find this info thru any channels. Her Rho Chi does not have it either. D has asked. There is no BS.

I do not want to set her up for heartbreak and regret by telling her that we will make it work, when we can't. We did the best that we could with the info that we had. Shame on UA Greek System for not making the financial information readily available. I know for a fact that we are not the only family in this situation. D's roommate and another girl that she met in her group all have the same issue's.

I sincerely appreciate everyone's helpful advice, it is so nice to know that people care about one lone student and a desperate mom. Those who wish to judge me I can only say that someday you will understand how incredibly difficult it is to be the mama. I will post and let you know how it all works out. I am confident that it will.

Students who pledge a sorority or fraternity are allowed to change meal plans to a smaller plan, since they will be eating most meals at the house. You can eliminate it completely, but it does fill in a few of the meals for which the house is closed.

Titchou & 33girl...So glad that my daughter's situation and my asking for help can be a source of amusement for some of you. How very sad that you think that you have the right to ridicule and laugh at someone who came to you sincerely asking for help and advice.

Again, some day you will grow up and understand how hateful you were to someone who only asked for advice. I am done here...

I can respect all of this. :) My parents did nothing to help me grasp the concept of money when I started college. As a result, I still have $40,000 in student loans. Had I truly understood what it meant to take out all those loans, I would have changed things.

I wish her the best, jll. Please let us know how it goes.

Brand new to posting, but lurking for some time and something jumped at me as I was reading this thread. It sounds like you daughter has a very demanding major if even a small 4-10 hr a week job is strongly discouraged. Are you sure she has time for a sorority? It is not only a financial, but also time commitment. Does the Dean of her major condone sorority activities?

I have a relative who graduated from Purdue in one of their more demanding majors. The professors suggested that they not have jobs the first year. The cousin managed to work one weekend a month (8 hours on Saturday and 8 hours on Sunday) and still ended up with a 4.0 in pharmacy after two years of working one weekend a month. He just planned around it by staying in on Friday to study the weekend he worked, etc. Maybe something like that would work for her if it were related to her major, so that she would be getting career experience in the mean time. Also, don't under estimate how much she could save up during the summer to help pay for t-shirts, favors, etc.

I feel like certain majors say those things to scare people or make them seem more elite somehow. Seriously. In January, I took a full time grad school load. I worked 40 hours a week. I parented two teenagers. Single parented them even. I held a volunteer position with my sorority. Yeah, I only got a 3.94 or something that term but so what? People do as much as they want to do.

In undergrad, my major warned against working and against sororities. I did both. I worked probably 24 hours a week, took classes, did 16 hours a week in fieldwork and was active in my sorority and other organizations too. Oh yes, and a full time boyfriend.

I would imagine that the differences in costs have to do with what they are including on their web site.

And, I have to say, there's no way I'd be able to afford a sorority for Hypo at that school. I'm glad it isn't that expensive around here or where she's going.

Let me say first, I sympathize with the OP.

Let me say second, I do not understand why you even let her go through rush if cost was such a heavy factor. Because, if it was, and you already knew it to be so, then I am assuming you would have heavily researched this before even starting.

I really feel for both you and your daughter. Financial pressure is the worst. But I put the responsibility on you to have found out all of this first and not set your daughter up for this drama/tension/uncertainty.

Just found this info on the Alabama Panhellenic FAQ page:

Total Average Fees (per semester):
Living In-House: $4,105.00 includes room, sorority meal plan and sorority dues
Living Out-of-House: $2,300.00 includes sorority meal plan, parlor fees and sorority dues
*One-time New Member Fee: $472.83 (average cost for fall semster)

So evidently, the info has been there all along.

Right, so the OP saw the average, figured out how she could handle it, and is now hearing that some of the chapters actually have much higher dues than what is listed on the website. If there are chapters that are really way higher than this, they should be listing them individually so people know.

It's really not fair to expect that everyone can a) afford up to $1200 more than the "average" at a moment's notice or b) obtain information via word-of-mouth.

Unfortunately that information is out of date and incorrect. Panhellenic needs to correct that page. D lives inhouse at $5200 a semester...we put $800 in Purchase fund account as well for t-shirts, zaps ect. We are not charged for date parties, dances or social events of any kind. There are hidden costs for Philanthropy events. D is a junior. When she pledged 2010 our out of house costs were app 2600. Those building new houses and old row houses will have higher house bills. I know for a fact some sororities who are building the new houses have passed the added billing only to those girls who will be living in...not to the entire group.

Jll, I'm just heartbroken for you -- I'm shocked at the flippant ridicule as well. It is difficult enough to be a pnm's mother during recruitment, and I'm sure you didn't need or expect this treatment. What exemplary representatives of their respective GLOs -- who did a lot more to perpetuate sorority stereotypes than demonstrate the value of a sorority experience.

All the best to your daughter.

Most (though not all) chapters list expenses for 2012-13 in the PDF brochures on their individual profile pages, which I'm guessing have been online since the beginning of spring at least.

I think it's very healthy to have this discussion. Unfortunately, she may not have the leeway to choose against one of the more expensive chapters. And I don't think there's a problem with her ranking with cost as a factor. Unfortunately, her ranks and her results won't necessarily match.

If she's having a good rush and she does have a certain level of control about her invitations, then great; she can use that as a factor. The problem is going to happen if she gets through to the end and your worst case scenario is what she gets.

But I really wouldn't let cost ruin the day. Sororities these days do offer payment plans so although the costs don't go away, they do get spread out. And let's not forget that sororities offer lots of scholarships. I think there are financial alternatives to you, so no need to panic just yet.

You may see $2500 a semester and be thinking "great" and then find out half the stuff she either wants to do or is required to do isn't included and the real cost is more like $4000. You may see $4000 and think "crap" but that may include every single thing she would take part in with no additional funds being put out.

Obviously the info is out there and there are people who are sharing it. Doing the research and budgeting before recruitment is something that really needs to be done by every college student, who can share both the info and their plans to pay for it with their parents.

Fact is, it's now the middle of her recruitment and she does not have the luxury of choosing only to rush the more "affordable" groups (and I quotation it only because you don't know how affordable and included everything really is). There may be some tough decisions ahead that could have been avoided if research and financial planning had been done previous to recruitment.

tangent
Every once in a while I have wished to have been in an SEC chapter especially when in the house picture threads. Then I read a thread like this and go "Oh thank God!"

/tangent

Actually, I think that using the process of spending less than 4 hours, each with various groups (all at their shiniest), in order to chose lifelong friends, would seem pretty absurd to most people.

It seems more a process of joining a group, all of which have wonderful opportunity for friendship, and then developing lifelong friends.

i had a quick look at the top row of chapters on the alabama panhellenic page.

here is what i found regarding first year costs for new members:

---------- SEM1, SEM2
AXO ----- 4200, 3500
ADX ----- no financial information provided
ADII ----- no financial information provided
AGD ----- 2777, 2777
AOII ----- no financial information provided
APHI ----- 2700ish, 2400ish (listed each individual fee and i just estimated the total)

living in costs were not quoted for any of these groups. if any of these are not exactly right, then it is possible that i may have missed something, but i am just going off of what was on their PDF as the above poster suggested.

so the info is not necessarily out there and easily attainable. it was there for half of the groups listed, but this doesn't help if the chapters you are interested in (or, more accurately, the ones that are interested in you) do not have info listed.

sure there are ways to remedy the situation with a job, a summer job, payment plans, scholarships, etc, but it is really not unreasonable that someone would be caught off guard that some of the chapters are much higher in cost than what is stated to be the average.

maybe chapters don't want that info out there readily available, but they could list total yearly costs for all chapters without specifying which amount belongs to which chapter. this would give parents and PNMs a truer picture of the actual costs they may be facing.

if someone wants to gather info on the remaining chapters, feel free.

I think the thing a lot of parents lose track of when wanting the best of everything for their kids is that sometimes you simply can't afford to give them everything you want to give them. Sororities are a luxury, not a necessity. Even the supposedly bargain priced ones (which may be less expensive only because the quoted fees don't include things like activities, events, formals etc.) come with hidden costs ... clothing for all kinds of events, road trips, football games, spring break etc. If anything above the "average" cost is a stretch for you, it sounds like your money may be better spent elsewhere and Greek Life at Bama isn't financially feasible without a great deal of sacrifice.

Amen to this....

And OP, I'm 66 years old so I hope to God I'm not going to be having any more children! Yikes! And since I've volunteered locally and nationally with my group for over 35 years and my son is national president of his GLO, I think I have seen your situation more times that I can count. Trying to see that your daughter only "falls in love with" a cheaper group is like trying to nail jello. You just can't do it. You let the horse out of the barn when you let her sign up for recruitment. And without having each chapter's budget in hand, which you will never get before being a member as that is private information, you really can't ever know exactly what is covered in each group's fees. It just isn't possible. PH tries to get that information and give you and
"idea" of the costs. Because different groups charge different things in different ways, you are comparing apples and oranges. I'm sorry if this reality is hard for you, but we are trying to be honest and you are trying to makes us give you information we just don't have as you don't have all 17 groups represented here with someone from each group ALSO being from Alabama. Sorry. I don't know what else to say about it.

So glad I went to Auburn instead of Alabama for so many reasons, not the least of which was the cost of sorority dues. When I was in school only a decade ago dues were only $600/year. My cousin pledged a chapter at Alabama the same year and her dues were more than 5 times mine.

And you had chapter rooms, not houses, for which the rent to the Universisty was only $6000 a YEAR for the whole space! Far cheaper than what it costs to run a house at Alabama. I'm not sure how Auburn is doing it now but when the new dorms were opened - what, 5 years ago? - there was no rent to the chapters for the chapter rooms but ALL Greek women were charged $150 a semester on their University bill to cover the cost of the rooms. So you really can't compare the two.

I'm just going to point out again, because everybody seems to include meal plans in the "dues" list, that it doesn't make sense to include that. I'd figure the difference between what I'm paying for meals to the University vs. to the sorority. which appears to be about $300, not $1500.00 and that's dining dollars from the looks of the Alabama web site.

(I'm shocked how cheap Alabama is... I see why they get a lot of out of state students!)

I know the OP has left, but something about this is really bugging me. This isn't her first time on the sorority track if you will. She has stated that her older daughter is in one. So I just don't understand why she didn't expect it to be expensive.

Apparently, her elder daughter attends a Midwest school with a less competitive Panhellenic environment. PNM daughter is in recruitment at Alabama, which is the pinnacle of SEC highly competitive recruitment environments.

When I "rushed" a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far, away, at a competitive SEC school, as a segment of the skit party the chapters handed us a small card with the financial information printed on it. Of course it was all apples, oranges, pears, and pineapples due to different ways of charging, but it was helpful. Of course today the PNMs cannot carry anything away from a party.

The AGD fees don't include the meal plan, so add another $1500-1600.

LOL...probably the same with any of them that are in the $2400 range.

That was the best part of this thread - you and I being mistaken for youngsters. OMGZ R U going to the One Direction concert with me? If so we have to go get some sparkly glitter makeup to wear.

Hartofsec, you know what I mean. Dissecting posts is silly. If you're trying to say "she could join a cheap group and get the same experience" - then you're clueless as well. You cannot, in rush at Alabama, pick and choose which groups to return to. The groups are cutting you. If all she has left is more expensive groups, that's all she has. PERIOD.

jll, sorry if your older daughter's experience misled you, but I am assuming that you knew your younger daughter wouldn't have the same type of wardrobe, living costs, or travel expenses to school attending Bama vs. a small Midwest school. Why on earth would you think that the sorority experience would be the same?

I understand a parent’s desire to know how much everything will cost before a PNM accepts a bid. However as already said, it’s not easy to find the specific breakdowns of each chapter at Bama. Here are some things to keep in mind. Not saying I agree with all of these, just explaining.

- Panhellenic’s published dues average means just that – it’s an average. ABC might charge $5,000, while XYZ only charges $1,000. That puts the average at $3,000 which is a big difference between the two groups.

- NPC groups don’t bill their members in the same way. ABC may include everything involved in sorority life, while XYZ charges separately for things like formals, etc. Those “ala carte” items can add up quickly, yet aren’t officially considered dues.

- I won’t say it’s considered a “if you have to ask you can’t afford it” mind set in the South, rather it’s just considered tacky and possibly even rude to discuss finances. PNMs are always warned to stay away from the B’s in conversation: booze, boys, Bible, and bucks.

- PNMs might equate higher dues with a more elite/top tier chapter while lower dues must mean it is lesser quality/lower tier chapter.

- What if during Recruitment Polly PNM didn't specifically express that the bill won’t be a problem or if she even had some concerns? Annie Active might assume wrongly that means Polly can’t afford it and so better cut her.

The other problem that comes up with a combination of OOS and asking about dues is that OOS are already more likely to transfer. Having concerns about money up front makes that a concern as well.

Which chapters cost more can be all over the place because a smaller chapter may have to spread housing costs out differently, while a chapter that everyone wants to live in the house can afford to give a better break to girls that don't live in the house.

What??? I have never heard this...where does this statistic come from?

Brains and guts. :)

I think that varies hugely by school/region. At some schools, people would probably think "well if she came all the way from BFE and went through ALL THAT to get here in the first place, I doubt she's going to transfer, now that she's here."

?
This is also why sports programs that can recruit more in state athletes are often considered stronger programs. It doesn't matter if they are bringing the most awesome athlete with the best coach ever - sometimes family situations are such that they need to transfer and OOS students are perceived to do this more often to go closer to home.

Someone could probably write a master's thesis on this but (having gone to school OOS) my theory is that a big OOS move is exciting in many cases, but it does remove the social network and support system that one is used to. This makes college - which can already be a stressful situation - even more stressful.

At a private school, where there are lots of OOS students the willingness and opportunity to build new networks are there. It can be harder at a big state school with big classes and a large fraction of the student body already having a network. I think Facebook and email can make this easier nowadays, but then that inserts a new level of high school drama that was not present when I was a kid?

A good sorority situation can Definitely make it better. (Hence the interest of OOS students in recruitment.) A bad sorority experience can make it worse. (Hence, the legends of NMs who spend one semester at a school get initiated and then transfer to schools where that sorority is more highly respected....)

(I will ignore the fact that in the Alabama thread you just called Alabama BFE....)

Hee, I was referring to coming from BFE (which at Bama would be...anyplace outside Alabama?).

Way to make friends here, 33Girl.:rolleyes: