I think that this is what bothers me the most - he is completely dismissing the advice from women, saying that they know nothing about fraternities.. When he isn't in one! Quite frankly, there could be some women here who know more than he does, but he's so quick to dismiss what they say simply because they can't join one.

What he fails to realize is that while fraternities and sororities are very different, there are also many similarities, and there's a lot of advice that can overlap and apply to both.

And there are fraternities that women can join. Not even talking about "just" professional or service oriented ones.

What's that saying about insanity? Posting the same thread on Greek Chat and expecting different advice?

He can't take the GOOD advice that he should be busting his ass in the summer so he can get the ball rolling in the Fall. Earth to OP, you're choosing to ignore good advice from people who are actually in fraternities (and sororities). A lot of these people have helped found chapters or served in leadership roles in their chapters.

The fact that you disagree with their advice will doom you to failure. The end.

Trust me. Last December when I was in negotiations to lease us a nicer house, I wasn't going to Sigma Nu or even other fraternities for plans on how to run the property. I was soliciting sororities to let me steal their lease agreements, risk management practices and business practices.

NPC groups are just so much more ridiculously evolved than NIC types when it comes to many things. To discard what y'all have accomplished as useless would not be a good decision.

I don't even think that's his biggest problem. The organization he's recruiting for either doesn't take him seriously or is just awful at expansion efforts. This group has made a lot of bad decisions. Summer rush is just one of them.

That said, early on in our colonization process, we did have some pretty piss poor numbers and lacked the institutional knowledge to recruit throughout the summer. We're doing pretty well today.

It's conceivable he could pull things off, but he's going to need either more organizational support or some sort of something to be able to retain membership once it's been recruited. Rush is only part of the picture. Without some means to retain members, you're just spinning your wheels.

How many did you start with? My gut feeling is that you need to start with at least five. I have seen five guys do it. Three is not five.

Twelve.

But 3 could work.

Heck.. our fraternity was founded by 3 very idealistic gentlemen.

Since it's time to split hairs, a male graduate of a fraternity is an alumnus. Alumni is a group of men or men and women.

I am a female member of a fraternity. So therefore I get to give you all the wasted advice I want. And my advice is to just stop. Any fraternity that won't summer rush is doomed to failure. There's no other way around that. And not getting that rushing men is just befriending strangers REALLY doesn't get even the most basic processes of fraternity life. Which winds me back around to just stop.

Good advice.

It's got the male fraternity chapter founder seal of approval. Know your Latin.

That said he's going to fail just because he doesn't do the right thing. My personal experience involved a lot of trial and error (and a lot of really embarrassingly bad error). Do I wish I knew then what I knew now? Yeah, we'd have been a lot better off.

My chapter had a few more advantages than his entity does, but they plausibly could make it. I don't have high hopes with their summer choices, but it could be done.

Since your the only person that I can take serious in this thread (and the only guy really, again no offense to the ladies but they aren't really saying anything that's really serious or useful), everyone should save their breathe. It's just a really pathetic troll at this point. The only thing that's really lazy here is the inability for anyone to use their brains.

There is a lot going on here to even think about summer rush. Again, it's not that I desperately can't do a summer rush, I'm sure it's very possible, the real question is, how is it worth while in this stage of the game? To you it seems as it's in my best interest, but there is a lot more going on in my situation.

First off, it's not just me that's involved. I have friends that are interested in the idea of starting a fraternity, 3-4 guys specifically that are interested in being more involved, maybe more but there are 3-4 guys that are close to the situation I guess you can say. However, they all have things to do this summer and I cant really hold them back. One guy wont be here, another has life things to take care of that definitely matter, another guy doesn't know whats really going on, its pretty complicated and its been a lot of stress to me, someone who's been mainly leading the situation. Plus with other life things to be stressed about, its really something that I'm taking slow. Again, we all really want to do this, but first we have to figure out what the **** is going on before we decide to do anything else.

Second, theres no real direction here of the future. I don't want to waste a bunch of peoples time when I myself and others don't know what we are really doing or where we really need to go. To me and my friends, we wouldn't want a bunch of guys who are mindlessly following a fraternity with no clue of whats to tell. We want some really intellectual and strong minded people to join this, not a bunch of people who have no idea what they really want. We definately can see that greek life is very beneficial and that theres a lot worth while in it, however, we can see that its not so black in white in how it all happens. Before we decide to create a bunch of relationships based on a business, we need to see how this business can happen. We want to do this right. Again, after dealing with a really sketchy group that wouldn't be beneficial to the university, or to really anyone, we want to make something that's actually going to be worth somebodies and our own time.

I'm not even sure what the greek office is really interested in (which I should find out this week) of what their plans are. It's like even if I find some guys who are interested in the idea, we wouldn't know what's next. With the fraternity that I been talking to, the next thing I plan to find out is what are they really interested in doing. The national organization has not been too involved for whatever reasons. It could be due to the division of our group and how messy everything has gotten, but even still it's just all too odd.

I notice they definitely want to improve the quality of greek life as a whole since the less than 4%, the overall gpa is less than 3.0, theres hardly any presence of the system anywhere on campus, its not really something that people at my school think is that special. Again, it reflects the attitude of the institution. The athletics here are mediocre, the university isn't too diverse in it's academics, student life is low, its really a university that is still itself lost in it's identity.

What exactly was it like at your school when you came on? Was the university doing well or was it really stagnant?

[QUOTE=supahotboi;2141292]Since your the only person that I can take serious in this thread ... everyone should save their breathe. It's just a really pathetic troll at this point. The only thing that's really lazy here is the inability for anyone to use their brains.

There is a lot going on here to even think about summer rush. Again, it's not that I desperately can't do a summer rush, I'm sure it's very possible, the real question is, how is it worth while in this stage of the game?

First off, it's not just me that's involved. I have friends that are interested in the idea of starting a fraternity, 3-4 guys specifically that are interested in being more involved, maybe more but there are 3-4 guys that are close to the situation I guess you can say. However, they all have things to do this summer and I cant really hold them back. One guy wont be here, another has life things to take care of that definitely matter, another guy doesn't know whats really going on, its pretty complicated and its been a lot of stress to me, someone who's been mainly leading the situation. Plus with other life things to be stressed about, its really something that I'm taking slow. Again, we all really want to do this, but first we have to figure out what the **** is going on before we decide to do anything else.

Second, theres no real direction here of the future. I don't want to waste a bunch of peoples time when I myself and others don't know what we are really doing or where we really need to go. To me and my friends, we wouldn't want a bunch of guys who are mindlessly following a fraternity with no clue of whats to tell. We want some really intellectual and strong minded people to join this, not a bunch of people who have no idea what they really want. We definately can see that greek life is very beneficial and that theres a lot worth while in it, however, we can see that its not so black in white in how it all happens. Before we decide to create a bunch of relationships based on a business, we need to see how this business can happen. We want to do this right. Again, after dealing with a really sketchy group that wouldn't be beneficial to the university, or to really anyone, we want to make something that's actually going to be worth somebodies and our own time.

I'm not even sure what the greek office is really interested in of what their plans are. It's like even if I find some guys who are interested in the idea, we wouldn't know what's next. With the fraternity that I been talking to, the next thing I plan to find out is what are they really interested in doing. The national organization has not been too involved for whatever reasons. It could be due to the division of our group and how messy everything has gotten, but even still it's just all too odd.They realize you lack maturity, common sense, logic, and the ability to form a sentence. Consider this more of the "dude dating" and let's just say: This national group just isn't feeling the love connection

I notice they definitely want to improve the quality of greek life as a whole since the less than 4%, the overall gpa is less than 3.0, theres hardly any presence of the system anywhere on campus, its not really something that people at my school think is that special. Again, it reflects the attitude of the institution. The athletics here are mediocre, the university isn't too diverse in it's academics, student life is low, its really a university that is still itself lost in it's identity.

As a female who is a teacher, I believe I can speak to the educational issues here: You really can't think anyone will take you or your two friends seriously if you can't form a sentence consistently. Many are fragments, others are run-ons, and still others simply don't make sense. Your spelling is horrible and you continue to list the same few facts (like how you only have 2.5 friends, hoe women can't give advice, and how your university is weak and has poor academics and a poor attitude. Clearly this institution has not taught you common sense or basic writing (or you have chosen to ignore these lessons). Life advice (and yes, though I'm a female, I also am alive and have a life, so I feel confident in my advice in this situation as well) : Put the time you spend in writing the same thing over and over on this forum into taking a remedial English and grammar course. Go get your grades up and transfer to an institution which you won't need to fee the need to bash repeatedly that has the greek life you are so interested in. Take a women's study course while you're at it. Then grow up and get over yourself.

In life, you attract what you project to the world. You say you want to attract intellectual young men, yet your post is so riddled with issues regarding spelling, grammar, context, and lack of logical supporting arguments that you'll have difficulty attracting men so different than you portray yourself.

Greek life is not for you. Form a book club to help your academics and GPA instead.

Supahotboi if Kevin is the only one you're taking seriously, why aren't you taking his advice of not dismissing the female input? The women of GC have offered you great advice (in this thread and in the original).

I don't have any experience with starting a chapter. The chapter I was a part of was already off the ground. However, being in an established chapter is still hard work. If you're not willing to sacrifice your summer/freetime/whatever, you're not setting up your future chapter up for success.

I count one troll and one person not using his brain in this thread. Just saying.

Our school was the 3rd largest in the state, but still viewed as a commuter school. <4% Greek Life. The school has really been growing over the last 10 years. Still #3, but much better academics, in a better Division II conference (MIAA). We were the first new fraternity in decades and they added another 2 years after we colonized.

It sounds like you probably have a better raw situation than we did. Your campus seems pretty ripe for expansion.

I cannot wait for "Starting a fraternity chapter, looking for advice part 3" to pop up in the next couple of days.


Anyway, I guess I can offer some help. And I'm a guy, so by your logic, you have to listen to me, right?


1st, the definition of a troll a la wikipedia.


"In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion"


So far, in both part 1 and part 2, I have seen no trolls at all.


2nd, if you don't think it is worthwhile to do a very important step/any step in the right direction, then forget about it. Yes, it is very worth it to start trying summer rush, and many people have told you why it is and how it might benefit you.


3rd, your definition of "sketchy" seems to be people who party a lot. You are kinda being superficial there, which is something you said that the fraternities that already exist are, so hey, what do you know, you are a perfect fit for them. By the way, have you tried rushing those fraternities yet?


Also, as a side note, http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...57#post2140557

If you think that dirty rushing is a-ok, I don't think you have no right to determine what's sketchy or not.

4th, and last, and not least bit of Silver advice, listen to the women. Just because they have more balls than you does not mean that you can't take their very good advice.

Ok, so let me see if I have this right...

1). Starts thread asking for advice about starting a fraternity chapter
2). Receives good advice from both men and women
3). Dismisses that good advice
4). Closes thread
5). Starts new thread, and says advice from women isn't welcome
6). Complains that women aren't contributing anything useful to the conversation

He gets our advice, dismisses it (and us altogether), and now he wants it again?

What's sad is that if he didn't blow all of us off, he might have learned that I come from a chapter that struggled (with less than 19 members the entire time I was active), which did recruitment much like fraternities do, that I was the Recruitment Advisor for that chapter, and that I have a ton of good ideas I could have thrown his way.

Oh well.

All jokes aside, it is one thing to blast the OP for being a fool and not understanding the demographics and collegiate/post-collegiate experiences of GCers. However, it is beginning to appear as though you all feel slighted and are therefore begging the OP to take opinions. Do you all really care? LOL. You all are doing these usernames a huge favor by even responding to these threads. Wooptydoo if the OP doesn't know his head from his ass. Imagine if these threads were responded to like many NPHC threads are. Silence.

I needed to read this message this morning; am applying it to a situation I'm currently in. Really difficult to practice restraint of pen and tongue; however, DrPhil, silence is deafening, indeed.

;) Have a nice day, everyone.

Sure, three could work as a start. After a full year, though, if you only have three, that's a problem.

I'm not saying there's some absolute cut-off, but I think if you have 5-6, and everyone gets one person by the time you come back in the fall, you have 10+ guys, which can be a decent presence for fall rush.

Of course, it's all campus-dependent and what-not. Crows started up on my campus junior year, and I think they had like 8 core guys to start, and expanded from there.

Ha, it's true. As I said in the last thread, we don't really care one way or the other.. It's his life. He can choose to fail, and that's on him.

Kevin, stop being all helpful! :p

Did you read my (or any of the other ladies') posts AT ALL? I mean, actually read and process what they were saying? No one is telling you to run this like a sorority, rush like a sorority, or do things regarding expansion like a sorority. If that were the case, every single female - including me - would be saying "Don't put a lot of thought/time into this until you go to the Greek Life office, ask about numbers/total/quota over the past several years, and see if the campus is open for expansion." That's how NPC sororities expand and NO ONE has said that to you.

Your misogynistic attitude combined with your laziness is just ridiculous, and neither is an attribute that a colonizing member of any GLO needs to have.

I fuggin CRIED

I wouldn't assume either. Greater autonomy in colonization efforts may = greater autonomy in running the chapter in general, and more room to adjust things to how a growing commuter campus works. In other words, this group isn't going to be all up their asses about having 50 guys (when that is unrealistic for the campus) and a Greek Revival style house and 6 intramural teams because Big School Chapter does, etc etc. but by that same token, they are going to expect the men involved to be self-starters.

IMO, if that's the way they roll, it seems like they are cutting him LOTS of slack if they haven't already cut him loose after a year and only 4 guys involved.

He said that three orgs have come onto his campus in the last three years. If that's the case, and I was a national org, I would be very wary of some random guys who contacted me.

He didn't specify what kind of fraternities they were, so I think to assume that 3 NIC fraternities came to do ground-up colonizations at a school with (according to him) very little Greek tradition or support is folly. I think that to assume that he knows this for a fact (i.e. the students didn't initiate the efforts) is also folly.

*panics, looks in pants and sighs in relief when he still sees he has a penis*

iDied

Yep. I saw that yesterday. Apparently, 8 of us in this thread are sans peen.

Wow that is interesting. I go to a D1 school but it really feels like a D2 one since we are one of the worse schools in most athletics. I've been reading something the school posted called "the strategic plan" which is funny since the beginning document says pretty much blasts the Greek life for being unproductive and how it needs to change".

Theres supposed to be a huge change to the greek life over the next 5 years. It has slowly gotten better, even though the stats of the current organizations are skewed (and I know for a fact they are) and it looks as they were more improvements than they actually should be.

Considering half of these posts are of memes and nobody actually saying anything, I don't care to respond to half of them. When someone makes a post about my spelling I can't take them seriously since it has nothing to do with anything and is clearly spam (even though you may think its not, lets be honest, its not as important as you want to believe).

2nd, the sketchyness, you have no idea. I dealt with people who were lying about things and not coming around. How are you to make these judgments with again not even really knowing anything?

Well again when you sit there and post a bunch of nonsense and dont get straight to the point, of course I am not going to take anything you say seriously.

Really, your not even listening to anything I have to say. I've explained before what my efforts have been and to you, it's just went over your head. I've said it before the campus has been open to expansion and have said things like "the quality of greek life at my school is low" and "the university reflects this in that university life is low, yet the school is looking to change this". Really, stop judging **** until you actually take some time to learn some facts. Your not being as helpful as you like to believe.

Again, more people have been involved along the way but dropped since we haven't went anywhere and **** has happened. 4 guys are just close to the situation really at htis point.

Its NIC and I don't see why you have this chip on your shoulder thinking I am making this up. As I said many times, greek life at my school is nothing right now, I'm interested in improving it. If your not interesting in helping me improve it, then you might as well not waste your time responding back.

Good luck with that attitude. You're (not "your") getting a college education; act like it. If you want to be taken seriously, you need to communicate like someone who is worth taking seriously.

You didn't read a single word I posted. Your "efforts" seem to have been "I don't like any of the fraternities so I am going to start a new one and it should be super turbo easy, because Greek life at this school sucks donkey dick and I am super turbo awesome. I don't know why the national fraternity isn't holding my hand and telling me what to do. I don't want to run this like a sorority, or listen to anything anyone in a sorority says, even though hand-holding and being told what to do basically IS what sororities do when they colonize. I don't want to go out and talk to random people, because they might not be perfect for my fraternity. I don't want to think about this over the summer, because that's too hard."

A colony is lots and lots and lots of work. The main thing is to have people that won't give up, even when it seems like things are stalled. If you can't attract people like that, you aren't going to be successful. Any colony has some people who drop out, but you have to keep pushing and finding new guys and not whine because the national isn't giving you enough.

If your attitude in real life is anything like your attitude on here, it's no surprise that you are having difficulty attracting quality men.

Well then, please tell us exactly who the fraternities are who came there and expanded GROUND UP WITH ZERO STUDENT INITIATIVE AT THE RATE OF ONE A YEAR so we understand what we're working with. Frankly, I and probably most posters here find that part of your story quite hard to believe.

You know, it would be less typing on your part to just say "Tell me what I want to hear stupid, assholes.". It's essentially what you keep saying in 368654 more words.

Now, with that said, I can't imagine why people aren't rushing to kiss your ass and hold your hand and be in your little club.

Again, this is what I mean. First off, this is GC, and most of your posts I really can't take seriously (especially all these Rosie and MJ memes, like seriously?). Second, your really overvaluing what your saying just for your own sake, what your saying is not as important as you like to believe.

My problem with half the **** these posts say is that your making judgments so easily without really knowing any real facts. It's like any sort of explanation I have you refuse to listen to. I come here looking for answers and been seeking help, and you will just have to trust me. I get that this is the internet and I could be anyone for all you know, but again, why even respond other wise?

Second, this is a school where the HQ's come and draft up organizations and it makes sense why. The students are not the ones bringing them in (which at other schools I've seen it the other way around and I get what your saying). But again, it just does not work that way here. That is why I come here asking how other people have done it since where I am at, it seems as how people have done things is much different.

The Greek office is trying to change the system (just as everyone at the university is trying to build traditions and make it a more traditional 4 year university). The students don't do much here. I know that's hard to believe, but the school I go to is not that bright. It's just not. At least right now that is, maybe 10 years from now things will be different.

Please clarify so we can help with advice:

1- How many fraternities are currently on campus?

2- How long have they been chartered? (If you know)

3 - Approximate size of each group?

I'm asking in order to get an idea about your campus. This information can help with where we can guide you.

No, it's really not that hard to believe.

Thanks, thats helpful.

Theres 8 NIC fraternities to my knowledge on campus and 2 of them are colonies which one got started last semester and another last year. 2 fraternities have only been around in the last 2 years. The other 4 have been here for a while. One has been here since 2001, other 3 since the 90s. Each group varies in size. Some have 70-80 members, some have 30-40, some even have 20-30.

You beat me to it.

Okay.

Now:

1- What's the approximate size of your school?

2- Is it in a large urban area? Medium sized town? Small, college style town?

3- Are there dorms on campus?

I have one too, it's just attached to my husband.

Don't worry, I know exactly what my opinions are worth. I have a Y chromosome and everything.