For the record, no one in this thread said anything about secret accounts and secret funds.

No one in this thread said anything they typed is based on a hostile financial situation or a lack of communication with their significant other.

Since even sharing your body has a constructed meaning, sharing everything else with your significant other has a constructed meaning.

See previous post where everything is in my name, except one credit card. ;) :p

Seriously, I'll admit I might feel different if my name wasn't on everything, but I'll also say that if my husband ever changed his mind, I would haul him down to the bank the next day and put his name on everything.

Prenups and day to day accounts are two VERY different issues. If I was living at the family farm that had been in our family since the War of 1812, no matter how much I trusted and loved the guy, I would get a prenup just to keep family peace.

Day to day and how you handle it is all about you two. Prenups are often not.

Prenups and day to day accounts are not that different for many people. Prenups are another way of preserving personal assets just as with having a separate account or separate investments. Preserving personal assets covers any change in the relationship.

I hate using celebrities as an example but Jay-Z and Beyonce's prenup allegedly includes millions for when she takes a break from performing and has children. He is essentially paying her for having children since she cannot pay herself as she is accustomed to (regardless of whether that money is typically deposited into her separate account or a joint account).

I'm sure Beyonce stans will go out of their minds, baby bump or not lol

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/167...aby-bump.jhtml

/onlycontribution

See my above example.

Assets you inherited and assets you made are very different. Since B didn't inherit shit, it isn't different for her. :)

LOL. Yeah she's fulfilling her commitments even with baby bump. However, Beyonce's performances and commitments will change throughout her pregnancy and once she gives birth in a few months.

Remember the Prince tribute in which Alicia Keys was on the piano. Prince and others were looking at Swizz Beats like "pleeeeease tell her to be careful!"

The average person in North America is not inheriting assets, let alone assets from 1812.

Most people don't inherit shit and that is particularly the case for people of particular socioeconomic statuses and disproportionately the case for racial and ethnic minorities. So, this topic should be understood and discussed from a range of life experiences and social statuses.

Assets you inherited and assets you made are the same thing if you consider it all your assets. These are all constructed legalities and constructed realities. When I inherit my parents' assets I will do so not because my parents want to keep peace in my family. Instead, as my parents have documented, my parents' goal is to divide their assets however they see fit. In turn, as they have also documented, my siblings and I can handle the assets that we attain as we see fit. That can include keeping the assets separate from our spouses or making legal adjustments to share these assets with our spouses. That includes selling assets and putting the money wherever we see fit. Therefore, these assets that we inherit are not that different from assets that we made ourselves.

My dad and his fiancee just signed a pre-nup that protects their children from intermixing of inheritances. So, should he die first, his fiancee gets a portion of his (singular) assets but the bulk goes to my brother and I. Should she die first, he gets a portion of her (singular) assets but the bulk goes to her children. This was so that the financial portion of my mother's (singular) assets will not go to some other person's kids, which is all documented in his will, as well.

For example: They currently live in a house that she built and is paid off, while my dad is selling his house. Should she pass away, my dad will find another place to live, while her children will inherit her house. This is all understood from day 1 so it's not a problem that any of us disagree with.

They're both (separately) financially stable though so it's not like she's going to not be able to continue with her standard of living should they break up or should my dad die.

Of course, should they need to sell everything they own and liquidate all of their funds for something, it's not like they need to ask our permission to do that. It's all still theirs right now.

Just giving an example of how a pre-nup isn't always in place just to protect yourself, it can also protect your kids.

Does this safety measure include divorce or only death?

That portion covers only death.

The divorce portion I believe is quite simple (well, in theory) - listing of major assets/accounts, and whoever has what prior to marriage has that after (if it's still around). For joint acquisitions, they have a 50/50 split if they can.

This is because they're retired so while they don't necessarily have a tight budget, it is a fixed income. So there won't be any "I put you through school and now you make X amount of money."

I know they worked on it for a really long time. :) They seem happy with it, so I'm happy with it. None of that stuff is "mine" anyway - my dad already gave me a lot of things that were my mom's that hold more sentimental value than her life insurance payout. :p That was for him.

Makes sense!

Pre-nups; separate accounts; and separate investments all protect oneself or family/kids (for those who have family/kids to protect). Protection is protection regardless of who is being protected and where the resources are coming from. That's what Centaur1963 was saying.

Right right right I was just giving a "real life" example. I'm also lucky that my dad/his fiancee are very pragmatic people and could see that there might be conflict in the future, since I don't get along very will with her daughter (thankfully we're grownups who only have to see each other a handful of times in our lives and live very far away from one another) so wanted to lay out the terms of their pre-nup/wills with us prior to their wedding since she is the executor of her mother's will, and I am the executor of my father's will.

I'd hate for my father's/mother's assets to be sold to fund a tea party rally.

I understand. This all helps those who do not want all of their eggs in one basket.

Yes only her own money can be used to fund "tea parties." :)

(I keep saying "right right right...." LOL)

To continue to hijack this thread - the first time I met her, her first words were "God I hate that asshole Obama. I don't care if it's rude. If anyone here likes him we're going to have problems."

I could go either way on President Obama any given day but that's not the way to make a good first impression.

agzg, that's exactly the kind of thing I was talking about. (The house thing, not the Obama is an asshole thing.)

I don't choose my partner (potential husband) based on "worldy" views/values. Let's get that part straight before you continue to post/respond to me about this topic.:)

Of course I believe that partnership should bring financial increase. I also understand that most couples have two incomes to share. I just think that the goal should be to live on one income (our incomes as one) then, to save and give from the other (a savings account)...again, one income (our incomes as one). But it's not just about finances for me. It's about patience and doing my homework to know if it's someone I am compatible with, as I posted before. Did you read it?

I want to know more than just how he handles money and the whole joint or separate accounts thing. I want to know what he wants his life to look like over time. I might find that my goals are different. How does he spend his money? How does he handle stress? How does he speak to me and others? Is he sensitive and considerate to my needs? What is his attitude toward my views, goals, and gifts? Is he a man of discipline –faithful to keep his word? What is his reputation like at church, at work, among his family and friends? What is his relationship with God like? What is his sense of community at work and church as well as at home? It’s more about just finances to me, and this is just a short list. In other words, by the time I reach the altar, I should already know or have a very good idea what kind of man I have chosen to spend the rest of my life with.

What you (in general) believe about the possibilities of the relationship as well as what you believe about your partner will affect how your relationship works. I believe that there is faith in love. People bail out of love, bad health happens, money issues devastate relationships, etc. The list of things that can damage or destroy a marriage is long, it's not just finances. Yet love can prevail in the midst of trying circumstances. It comes down to commitment. Emotions follow decisions, so if there is no “out” clause in your mind, heart, or spirit, you can create determination to work through whatever changes come (provided there is no cheating, verbal, and or physical abuse involved. I’m not putting up with that). Marriage is a covenant, not a contract. The things we build are devastated when we don’t adhere to the promises we make. The home, the family unit, the children, and all that goes into the making of a marriage suffer when promises made are not promises kept. All of this is a matter of faith (to me). We adhere to what we believe. We abandon anything we have no faith in, and you can only take hold of what you envision through the eyes of your belief. I believe in who I have chosen as my partner for several reasons, but mainly because we have similar values and beliefs. Faith in my relationship, in my partner, and in the ability of God to keep what I cannot keep myself will help me stand firm even if the foundation is shaking. Again, it's about being "like-minded"...Christian beliefs or not. "Shit happens" when you don't have enough patience to do your homework.


No you don't.

lol

I won't argue that point. He can be a selfish little prick. I don't know what they see in each other. :rolleyes:

thank God my wife isn't a loonball when it comes to spending money. though we disagree often.

LOL your situation is different. I think for you it's all good because your husband (based on what I read) is from a different culture than this culture. This culture is mostly about that dough.

Not really.

This.

This is exactly what I was saying.

LOL damn, you don't have to get all mad about it. I feel you, but a lot of people think they know the person, sometimes all the way up to 25 years of marriage, and still find something out they didn't know before. There have been folks who have been married for years, and still divorced, mainly because someone was cheating. One of my frat brothers parents got a divorce when he was in college. They had been married for over 20 years. Just because you make it to the altar and you think you know a dude, doesn't mean he's going to hang around. In fact you might decide to leave. Who knows? Just sayin'. Then you mentioned family. Of course he's going to have a good rep with in his family, I would think. When I meet a girl who I eventually want to marry, I'm going to marry her, not her family. No offense, but you're too complicated, LOL.

I agree.

This is one of the many things in life that does not work in formulas. There are a lot of happy people and happy marriages. However, it isn't as though everyone who thinks they have the answer for their life and marriage are all correct. A lot of people are shocked because they thought they did everything as it should be done. Even with a faith base, that can breed a lot of bitterness and animosity because people are wondering what works if how they lived their life and handled their marriage didn't work.

Religiosity and Spirituality + strong family background + strong presence in church and community + excellent career CAN STILL EQUAL horrible marriage and inevitable divorce. It can also equal happy marriage and eventual divorce.

Also, everyone's happy when things are happy. How you really know people and know the strength of a union is to see how things are when shit hits the fan and things are miserable. Finances, illnesses, infidelity (not everyone cheats), getting a little tired of each other for seemingly superficial reasons, etc.

My husband and I pool everything into joint accounts. We don't make enough to have separate accounts, so we agree on all expenditures down to the last penny.

For most of our marriage, I have brought more money into the household, but he has been largely supporting us since I left my job earlier this year. I also handle all the finances myself, though he is fully aware of where we stand.

In all things, finances included, we trust each other 100%. We may be fools for that blind faith...only time will tell.

Co-sign.

Well but your situation necessitates that, and it's what works for you. Nothing wrong with that. You may feel differently down the line but really it does all come down to (broken record time) what works is what works, and is individual to any partnership.

I missed this comment, but co-sign for real. I am married to the most patient, loving man I've ever met. I have serious anger and temper issues that started during my childhood. It's hard for me not to lash out when things are bad, but he has taught me a better way.

When things have been at their worst, that's when we have gotten the closest as a couple. On the other hand, we haven't caught a break since we got married. It's been a ridiculous struggle the entire time...financially, professionally, medically, spiritually, etc.

If it's not one thing, it's another to the point that I have remarked that this can't be real life. It's surreal the kinds of crazy things that happen when we're around. lol

We chose a mixed bag on our bank accounts. We each have our own checking accounts, but we have joint checking and savings accounts. We used to direct-deposit both our paychecks into the joint account. Currently, I'm self-employed, so when I get paid I cut a check from my business account to the joint account ... however, only I have signatory power on the business account ;)

I used to think that way too, until I lost almost everything I had .. TWICE. My first husband was so controlling with money that I had an allowance that wasn't enough to cover my gas to get to work and home. I had no way to know he would be like that until we were married. We did what cheerfulgreek said and lived on one income, banking the other, supposedly. When I was getting ready to leave, I tried to take money out of our savings, found out there was only $3000 in there, when there should have been ten times that much AND he had never turned in the card that I signed so I wasn't on the account. I was scared to death because I was penniless without half that money (even thought it was only $3000). I needed that cash for a deposit on my apartment and the truck to move my stuff out. When he got home from work that day, I told him that I knew I wasn't on the savings and we were going the next day to put me on it or else I would leave him (which was really risky for me to do because he was getting increasingly violent). So he put my name on it and I left him with half that money.

Second marriage? He was GREAT with his money. He had saved enough for a down payment on our house, he always had money, was investing in retirement. Really managed it well. Of course, he was living at home, didn't have ANY bills at all. None. Not a single bill did he pay. Once we had a mortgage, a baby, day care costs, utility bills.. he still spent like he did when he had NO bills. And he spent ALL the cash using his debit card for everything so I'd have to charge groceries when the debit card was rejected at the grocery store. With the divorce, he got the house, I got the debt and we both lost ALL of our retirement.

I will NEVER EVER be without my own funds again. It simply won't happen, no matter how much I love him, how much I think I'd be with him forever, there is no way. NO WAY. Most divorced people pretty much feel the same way though, in my experience.

Cen1aur, I was not mad at you, at all. Believe me, if I didn't like you for whatever reason, I wouldn't even chat with you or respond to you. I was just posting what I believe and what I feel strongly about, that's all I was doing.

In response to your post, I don't know your fraternity brother's parents, so I don't know what kind of marriage they had. Also, know that you can never take your relationships for granted. Relationships have to be maintained just like the rest of your life. Too much, too little, too late, is usually the story in too many relationships where couples chose to coast, assuming no news was good news. No news usually means your mate has just found a way to compensate for whatever need you (in general) are not meeting. Should she/he reach a point that the other becomes more satisfying, guess what? -you will be replaced. I'm not justifying women or men seeking fulfillment outside of their marriages, it's just that relationships that are not diligently maintained can crumble.



Yes, I did mention family, and no he may not have a good reputation with his family. Or better yet, his family may not be all together themselves. It's just that for me, where a man comes from has a lot to do with how he will function in relationships. I just think it's important to decide if you like what you see. I want to see how he relates to his parents, his siblings, and others with whom he has significant relationships. Is there a positive connection? All negative links will affect your interaction with this person. You may not be marrying the family, but you will be inheriting their issues. -the negative energy will be transferred to you. In other words, the issues he has with his mother will become issues he has with me. I'm sorry, but I wouldn't get involved with some guy who comes from a dysfunctional family.


No offense taken.:) I just think it's important to have standards because these standards affect your compatibility and your ability to sustain a long-term relationship. It's just that in order for your relationship to be secure, I just think it's important to operate from the same platform. Therefore, there should be some nonnegotiables about anyone you consider connecting to.

And again, no I wasn't mad at you. Okay? :)

I think this depends what state you are in. IANAL, but certain rights of property ownership are granted in the Illinois Civil Union bill, and I can't remember the details. In any case, I'm sure you have a real lawyer advising you :-)

I handle money and live-in pays me appropriate rent (I own the condo). I used to try to make him buy groceries and stuff, but it was so stressful, and now he just gives me the cash.

Ditto for children of really bad divorces. I would NEVER not have my own account.

Truth. If I had a dime for every person who has told me to pre-nup my fiance, I'd be stinking rich!

I've lived so long (ever since I started working at 14) with my own money that I can't imagine only having shared accounts. My sister has been married three times and she had joint accounts with all husbands, she still has the same individual account that was opened for her as a child. As far as a pre-nup goes it depends on if I got married, and where I was living in regards to marriage and property. There are things I own or inherited that will stay in my family or be donated to a museum or organization and that's just the way it is.

When I was engaged we moved in together and had joint accounts to pay for household items and the wedding. This was in 2007 and Bank of America had crazy incentives so we both opened a checking and savings, then a joint checking and savings, a money market, and both got credit cards. The Alaska Airlines credit cards we got don't even exist anymore, but with all the freebies and perks it is no wonder they banking industry had problems and BofA no longer has my business. They did away with the platinum card I had and wanted me to reapply for the card that cost more with less benefits, no thanks.

Like I was saying earlier, it's much more than just that, for me. Honestly, just based on the little that you've posted about your second husband still living at home would have been a red flag for me. In every break up I've seen, there's always blame and finger pointing at the other person, yet people rarely want to point the finger at themselves. I also think that a lot of people don't truly know themselves. Knowing who you are is huge because if you don't know yourself, it will be hard for anyone else to get to know you. After all, how can you (in general) share your heart if you don't know what's really in it? For the most part, you attract what you are and what you think you deserve. The truth can be painful to absorb, but it is still truth. People instinctively know what they can get away with in your presence. They follow your cues. If you don't demand commitment and respect, they won't give it. Also never demand what you are not willing to give yourself. Relationships are always about giving. To get what you want, you sometimes have to give it first. How it begins is a good indication of how it will finish. In other words, what you see is what you'll get. I don't know much about your ex husbands except for what you've posted. I also don't know you, so I don't know what you look for in a potential partner or what you contributed to the failure of both marriages (besides choosing both as your husbands).

And this is just random. But people are the accumulation of their life experiences. They come to relationships preprogrammed from all of their love connections. They observe how to love from their parents, who may or may not have been a good illustration of what love looks like. And they've learned about it from how they've been treated in past relationships. Over time, these are things that will eventually be shown if you hang out with the person long enough to see their true colors. Is the relationship/marriage going to be perfect? No it is not. But forming a permanent link is only one step in the life of a relationship. Romance must continue, the desire to solve conflicts must continue, and the constant search of what will please the other person must continue. Never take the other person for granted -the moment you do, you are in danger of being either filed away or deleted and replaced. Bottom line, if it doesn't fit, don't force it. You will never be able to fix the other person. So, consider whether you can live with your potential partner as is. If not, move on. There is no shame in that.

I agree with all of this.

When Andy and I got engaged, we moved in with each other to save money. We opened up a joint account for joint expenses. When we got married, we joined all of our finances. I kept my own credit cards and a couple of bills in my name, so that I maintained a credit rating in case he dies before me. We have a weekly meeting where we review finances, but unless it is a major expense, we don't ask before we spend money...but I HATE debt and Andy is a saver, so we're a good match. Now I am a stay at home Mom and I don't feel at all that it is his money. Andy has never made a comment to me to make me feel like I am less of a partner in the relationship. We both work hard; it's just his provides outside income. I provide my income in different ways, by shopping sales and cutting coupons.

Yes yes and we are in Illinois. ;)

For someone who has actually never been married, you sure have a lot to say about it. People who grew up in families that aren't perfect are worthy of love, too. There are also many people who grew up in terrible circumstances who go on to LEARN from those experiences and make excellent spouses. Your formula sounds good on paper but doesn't work in reality. I should know since I'm 9 years happily married to a man with a horrible family that he does NOT want to emulate. My husband, however, is the smartest, most loving man that I can imagine ever meeting. If I passed him up because of rules that sound like they came straight from a how to dating book, I'd be kicking myself right now.

Yep, I agree. But there's no such thing as a perfect family, though.

True. But if it's going to work, I still believe you need to be compatible with that person, regardless of what kind of family they came from.

It's not "my formula". I follow biblical scripture (the best way I know how to), I enjoy reading it, and it gives me great wisdom and instruction in all aspects of my life. I agree, it looks awesome on paper, but where I disagree, it does work in reality, because I've seen it work in my parents marriage, and in my pastor's. Two couples I get my advice from.

Absolutely, I totally agree with you. That's great you feel that way about your husband. I would hope that you do and vice versa. You've been married for 9 years, so you should know something about it. However, no one (and this includes both you and your husband) comes into this world knowing everything there is to know about relationships. In fact, I think we look more like empty computers when we are first born. No programs have been installed, pretty much, if you want to look at it that way. All we have is the capacity to record and store all the information we receive. Right or wrong, that data is stored based on our observances, and that's pretty much what makes up our programming. We live out what we retain (unless somewhere down the line we learn a better way, as you've mentioned with your husband), and to be quite honest with you, sometimes it's a good thing and sometimes it's not. That all depends on who you seek for advice, or who you learn it from.

Nope, I've never been married, but for those single people, who have never been married, such as myself, the secret to taking advice is actually quite plain and simple. Take advice from someone who's been successful at accomplishing what you want to accomplish, and this isn't based only on relationships. It should apply to all aspects of your life. Since we're focused on relationships here, find someone who has a successful marriage or relationship and use that person as a source of sound counsel (I don't mean "use" as in take advantage of). I'm not going to sit around with a bunch of other women who are not having success with men and expect to come away with healthy words of wisdom. I just think the quickest way to end a depressing drama is to not let it begin. Seek counsel from experienced people in your lives.

In response to your other comment, I get my information on relationships from "dating books" (plural). Mainly from Corinthians, Genesis, and Proverbs. Probably not the "dating book" you were thinking. I don't just use the bible for dating purposes though. I like to use it for all aspects of my life. So far, it's been working for me.


Congrats on 9 years of marriage. May you have many more.:)

The roles and effectiveness of religious doctrine. That is a thread in and of itself.