Maybe it is different at your chapter but our quota range is not set until Pref. So how would a chapter know to release 10 legacies before Pref? Not that we have this problem since we don't get very many legacies.

Also why would it not be desirable to have a pledge class full of legacies?

Right.

Anyway, this is a lot of nit-picking, and I think my original point was lost.

A woman who is a legacy to a chapter should NOT ISP that chapter thinking she is a sure thing. Her legacy status is not some magical protection against ending up bidless.

I'm sure the battle over legacies happens the night before preference, and making this estimation is part of the process. Although quota can't be stated for certain until after preference, it can probably be guessed within a handful. But this would be an additional reason why you wouldn't want a full pledge class of legacies. You'd REALLY be hamstrung about who you can invite to preference - 40 girls you have to have and another 40 (or whatever) who you'll get if any of those 40 legacies decide to go another way. If you're a high, oh crap, what's the phrase, return-rate chapter and you can only invite a few more than the expected pledge class, you'd REALLY have no flexibility.

I doubt anybody from a high performing chapter on a huge pledge-class campus is going to say how it works, but I'd be willing to guess they say at some point early in rush that they are willing to take 20 legacies (or whatever) and work around those numbers from the get-go. A quota within a quota, maybe?

Because legacy doesn't always = stellar rushee or stellar member. Of your chapter, or of any chapter (or of any sorority, for that matter)

Also, it can kind of suck if you feel that you have essentially no choice in who you want to be your members - say you meet an awesome girl but she has no chance of getting in since she's a 1st gen college student and there are enough legacies to fill your pledge class and then some.

Most campuses know an approximate number for quota through out the week. Since you don't have this problem, it's silly to nit pick. For the chapters that do have "more legacies than quota," I have yet to hear of any of them pledged a class that is 100% legacy. Reasons to not pledge a full class of legacies 1. Your chapter likes other girls better. 2. You want to appear inclusive as an organization and not elitist. 3. Your legacies don't all meet your MS criteria. I could go on, but I'm sure you get the picture. Chapters that actually have this "problem" likely have a pretty good method to keep from having too many legacies at Pref so they don't break their own rules since a sister whose legacy doesn't receive a bid after going to pref would start WORLD WAR III!

The crux of the matter is that PNMs are just not told how quota additions work and that doing an ISP will prevent them from being a quota addition...or even what "quota addition" means and how chapters get them. It is unfortunate and happens every year across the country with an average of about 50% getting what they want and the other 50% being left without a bid.

Bottom line is that if the girl would be THAT unhappy in her 2nd (or 3rd or 4th) choice, then those chapters at the bottom probably know it. I mean, if she feels strongly enough to not even list the group on her pref card?? Come on...you KNOW that chapter has a definite hold on that vibe and will place her way down on the list. Now, that doesn't mean that she won't still get them...but the odds are much more likely that she'll get her 1st choice.

So, what I"m saying is that Greek Life at the schools and the Gamma Chis need to do a better job of telling them WHY it is bad to ISP...not just "don't do it"...because we all know that this generation is one who needs reasons for what they do. They won't typically follow blindly with a recommendation from someone they've not even met until a week before rush starts.

Due to RFM, quota is not a defined number until after bid lists are turned in. Up until that point, it's a 'quota range' and can be quite large...a differential of 10 or more is not uncommon with schools who chapter total is over 100. So, chapters have no way of knowing if their quota will be 40 or 50. So, if they have 50 legacies at pref and quota winds up being 42, then they cannot list all their legacies on the first bid list. Not the fault of the chapter. Just the way the system works.

Just unbelieveable. I am sorry, but this is ABSOLUTELY, COMPLETELY FALSE!! :mad:

Please don't spread this kind of inaccurate information around & get any girl's hopes up.

Well said ... particularly if the chapter that is choice #2 doesn't usually make quota ..they will move all the way to the bottom of their bid lists and the PNM who hasn't matched to choice #1 will match to choice #2 when choice #1 reaches quota and PNM will never be in position to be QA to choice #1.

As was once said .. if you'd rather eat glass then take a bid from a chapter DO NOT list it on your preference card.

Not necessarily. You're assuming that these women are going into their 2nd or 3rd choice chapters and acting like little brats rather than being mannerly and polite. It's possible for a PNM to be engaged in conversation with the person rushing her and the PNM still not want to be a member of that chapter. It's like the opposite of those strong-rushing chapters that make every PNM feel wanted, for lack of a better analogy.

Yeah....no. I'm quite aware of how RFM works. chapters with that many legacies have to make these decisions early on and estimate the probable quota so they don't end up with a legacy not getting a bid. For chapters with this issue, they wouldn't invite 50 legacies to pref. If their is a likelihood that they won't have space to guarantee them a bid, they get released before that is an issue. Have you heard of estimating? It's a pretty good way to keep from pissing off a lot of alumnae.

I have a question. What if a girl prefs at a top tier and 2 middle tier houses all of whom usually make quota and her school has guarenteed bid matching. Let's say she's not high enough on her first choice's list (the top tier) to get a bid, so if she SIP, she would be left bid-less. However, let's say at preference, she was incredibly rude to chapters 2 and 3 and made it clear she did not want their bid and then listed all 3 chapters on her card. All 3 chapters would make quota and she would not be on any of the bid lists. She would be eligible as a QA. Would she then get her choice? Not trying to start anything, just wondering.

Actually, it is statistically true that the majority of PNMs get a bid at their first choice. I don't think I've ever seen recruitment stats where more than 50% of the PNMs go to their second or third choice. At least 51% go to their first choice chapter, almost always. That doesn't mean it is guaranteed that you will get your first choice, but to say that "most" go to their top choice is not a lie.

NPC is pretty clear that if someone is invited to Pref, they are also somewhere on your bid list. This would probably backfire on this woman and she would alienate a whole bunch of greeks too.

If she did, she probably wouldn't be made to feel very welcome and would end up dropping out...unless, of course, the top tier house is full of girls who are as big of bitches as she is and think this behavior is acceptable.

My understanding is QA's go to the lowest recruiting strength chapter. If you're talking 3 chapters that all make quota, the lowest recruiting strength chapter may not be apparent by those not in the know or sitting in the room with the computer and the lists.

In this scenario, this girl SHOULD go bidless, but unfair as it is, she would get a bid.

I thought some QAs could also go to the PNM's first choice? I am probably wrong and DubaiSis is probably right, but I want to make sure I have my facts straight.

And that totally sucks for the chapters involved.

The MOI is remarkably vague on this. The people placing the QA's have a lot of leeway. They are supposed to take into consideration the chapter size, the relative recruiting strength, and the PNM's preference.

All campuses that I have dealt with place quota additions based on PNM preference rather than on a chapter's recruiting strength. I feel like PNM preference is by far the more common method.

What have others who have worked on numerous campuses seen?

Bad example. If she listed a group on her card that didn't make quota, she wouldn't be a QA. It's more like her third choice made quota, but is generally a weak recruiting chapter and may be the smallest in total.

In theory...but in practice, it seems the bigger chapters get the most QAs. That's the way the formula works (but don't ask me for a specific explanation!).
As before, the big get bigger and the small either stagnate or shrink.

One reason could be because Suzie rushee prefs the #1, 2 and 3 chapters on campus. If she's a quota addition to #3, it's not going to look very weak versus the #10 chapter who Suzie dropped on day 1. Although I know girls can pref chapters across the entire spectrum, do they more typically pref sororities that are pretty close on the recruiting strength spectrum?

Does anyone have any new thoughts? I still feel like okay, if you have to, you have to, just realize that you may go bidless.

That would be a good one! Do you want to start it?

Concur 100%.

At those 30 person chapter schools, yes, there are women who can fit in everywhere and would be happy with any chapter, but they are few and far between. The line between feeling sisterhood and feeling friendship can be thin, but strong. (Stronger than you realize until many years later.)

I also think that it should be noted here that some schools have QA go with te PNMs choice and at some the QA still goes to whichever of her choiced is smaller. This can lead to big problems if someone forgets to take graduating seniors off the roster before recruitment....

Hi,

I know this is an old thread, but the topic is right. My daughter has a question (she is going through as a member for the first time). She had a rush crush who had three houses for pref. (DD knows this girl from before). Girl was not 100% sure about 2 houses so sip'd one house. Got the call. My daughter is wondering if she is eligible for cor as they have a few spots open to make total. I told her that I was almost positive that she was not, but wanted to make sure that I was right.

Thanks so much

Since she did not receive a bid she is eligible to COR any chapter that is doing so.

Mevara,

Thanks for your quick response. I was wrong then. So even though she signed the pref card, she can still accept a bid through cor?

yes, she is eligible for COR because she didn't receive a bid. You're only bound for the 1 year rule if you receive a bid and decline it.

Because she did not receive a bid, she is eligible. The MRABA (binding agreement) is only applicable if a bid is issued. If she had declined a bid on bid day, she would not be able to go through COR.

She/the sorority need to make sure that there isn't any arrangement in place saying that if you suicide you can't get an open bid. I know the beginning of this thread mentioned QAs but on top of that, some places where the total is a mess and girls suicide on purpose to keep themselves "free" don't allow those girls to take ANY open bid. I think that's going away with NPC's newer emphasis on revising total on a more regular basis.

But - at any rate - double check anyway :)