It was a decent episode, I thought. Ozzy was definitely blindsided, which will hopefully cause him to start playing a better game. I figure, at this point, he might consider playing the idol whereas before Elyse was voted out, he would probably end up going out with the idol in his pocket (again).

I fully expected Dawn to get Keith's and what's-her-name's votes last night. It kept them from appearing to vote against Ozzy, but clearly, he knows they knew what would happen by voting the way they did.

This is when Survivor gets good. I'm glad it's reached this point already. Sometimes it isn't until the merge that decent moves are made.

The thing is, it would appear Ozzy no longer trusts Keith (and for good reason), and Keith knows about the idol because Ozzy was stupid and told him. What Ozzy doesn't know is that Keith told Whitney (who I like better every week) about it. Could make playing it effectively complicated for Ozzy.

Meanwhile, Cochrane is a very lucky boy that things went his way.

Agreed. I was so happy to see it happen.

It's two vs. two and two left over...it really sounded like a good chance for Rick to make a big move. But I bet he doesn't.

Well, Edna and Mikayla are certainly NOT the strategic masterminds they were accused of last night...

When it was all lain out before them (everyone pretty much said how they were voting), how was the third choice there not obvious for Edna and Mikayla? You got Coach and Brandon going one way and Sophie and Al going another. That means it only takes 3 votes to decide the outcome. The girls should have decided to work together and pull Rick in. Taking out Brandon would have been a fabulous move for the 3 of them. I don't think in Edna's case she would have voted for Coach and Mikayla probably wouldn't have voted for Al. Sophie is sort of a non-entity for me at this point, which is why I said Brandon. Their other option would have been to forgo Rick and try and pull Sophie into an all-girls alliance. She's a bit higher on the totem pole, though she might have fine for it to get Brandon out.

I like Cochran more each week. For as awkward as he is, he's also extremely self-aware. It's strange to me because I generally feel like the awkwardness in people like him comes from not being self-aware....and OMG, I just realized who he reminds me of (I was thinking Anthony Rapp or Anthony Michael Hall before, but that wasn't quite right...) Sherman from American Pie! That's it, what's been escaping me about him!

I was so disappointed in them for not trying. But all I could think was that the crazy from Coach and Brandon just provides too much interference for actual thinking.

But after Brandon's TC speech (seriously, what an idiot), can't you just see the reaction coming when he realizes that Coach lied about the HII. (Sorry, Coach, you didn't just withhold info, you lied. He asked whether you thought someone else could have found and it you said no.)


Agreed. But he also seems to be remarkably weak. He seemed clueless and worthless on helping them up-end the wheel-barrow. He's lucky they won the challenge.

And I'll just say -- one thing I like about this season is how neither tribe has gone on a rampage and decimated the other tribe. They're both at six people (not couning RI) with merge coming. Keeps it interesting.

Interesting. I really wanted to like him, and I do to an extent, but he seems to disappoint week after week. Never in my Survivor-watching history have I felt so sorry for someone so consistently. And what's weird is that he's not trying to do it (the way some Survivors blatantly play the victim). He just seems lost, out of place, and yes, like MC said, weak. I can't stop feeling sorry for the poor guy. Only once I stop feeling like his heart needs blessed can I start really liking him. I'm ready for him to step up so that can happen.

lol - yes, this has to be it. My brain hurts just thinking about what it must be like to be unable to escape from those two.

Agreed.

I have not been able to get into this season. I think I'm just too busy to be able to pay enough attention to an episode to really know anybody except Ozzy, Coach and Brandon. If I ever get caught up with homework, housework, and life, hopefully I'll be able to watch them all On Demand and get caught up with this too. Somehow though, I can't seem to make it a priority.

Bumping for tonight. If what I think is going to happen actually does happen, it will be a very interesting episode.

Merge? I haven't seen any previews except following last week's episode, and this week might as well have been a month where my memory is concerned.


Hypothetical RI Question: if they merge with even numbers, does the person returning to the game become a power player because they hold the tie-breaking vote, or do they become an easy pick-off that both sides can agree easily to get rid of? First instinct would be power player, but on further consideration, that person is likely to be seen as unpredictable and untrustworthy even as a tie-breaker. Even if they are used as a tie breaker, it would still probably be their only stay of execution, since after the tie is broken they are no longer useful.

^^ The previews don't mention a merge (from what I remember, anyway), but they do indicate that (spolier fonted - even though it's in the previews - just in case you don't want to know) that * someone asks to be sent to Redemption Island.* If that's the case, that's just dumb.

Regarding the hypothetical RI question: I think the answer completely depends on who the returning person is. If it's Christine, I think it's a moot point since she's made it clear that she'd switch to the red tribe (name escapes me).

Well, in addition to what you've said, they pretty much tell us which tribe this happens on. Shoot, I think they straight out tell us who pulls this move -- I don't think it's a misdirection in the previews. And I think the person involved thinks it's a strategic idea. Crazy yes, but it will be interesting.

I can see the strategy behind it. Tribe feels the new evictee will be able to beat Christine in a challenge. Getting rid of her means that they don't have to worry about her loyalty at all when they go to the merge.

DaffyKD

So Coach didn't lie. HE found it.. So obviously he didn't think that someone else did.. :p

Now knowing it was Ozzie, I think this was a stupid move.

The red tribe (whatever they're called) took a HUGE risk here.

And I don't think Christine should be a big concern for them, especially because she makes it blatantly obvious during the RI challenges that she pretty much hates her old tribe.. And she's been out to get Coach from day 1.

Ultimately, I think they would have been better off keeping the tribe strong, winning a couple challenges, and having the opportunity to go to the merge with more people and bring Christine into their group.

Even if Ozzy wins the RI challenge next week, I think they're going to be eliminating a potential ally.

LOL. I went to walk out of the room after seeing that all of their masks were correct and knowing their tribe had won, when all of a sudden I heard him yell this. Obviously I had to come back to see what was going on!

That was quite possibly the most awkward end to a challenge, with one tribe praying to the heavens, and Ozzy kicking and punching everything

Hee...I too, will experience great "schadenfreude".

Ugh...I found that whole 'display' so offensive. It's like, yes, God likes you better than the other team and that's why you won. WHATEVER. :rolleyes:

And yet, LOL at your dirty mind (and mine). :D

But as others have said, Christine has made it very clear at RI duels that there's no way she's teaming up with her former tribemates, and especially not with Coach. Remember how she flipped Rick off when he tried to say something encouraging? Remember how she joined in with Stacey's rant about "Benjamin"? Notice how Albert last night was openly encouraging Mikayla? Savaii has sent two people to RI duels every time; haven't they been paying any attention?

As I thought, the previews this time -- especially when coupled with the press blurb released by CBS* -- told us exeactly what was going to happen. It was clear before the show started that Coach and team would win immunity and that Ozzy was going to sacrifice himself. (Though for just a few minutes, I was thinking maybe it was Cochrane** instead who was going to sacrifice himself.)

It was a stupid, stupid move on Ozzy's part, but maybe a smart move on everyone else's part (even if they didn't do it for the smart reasons). Ozzy strength has never been strategy; it's been winning at challenges. The merge is coming soon (maybe not next time, but soon). At that point, it's individual immunity up for grabs, and Ozzy has a track record of winning there. That gives others on his team reason to want him gone, especially if they don't have the numbers to control a Tribal Council vote.


* "One tribe calls upon the heavens in hopes of changing their luck, while the other tribe is left in shock when one of their own makes a risky move that will go down in Survivor history." The tribe calling on the heavens was clearly Upolu, who last went to Tribal Council and needed a change of luck, and that was shown in the previews. That meant Savaii was the tribe that would be left in shock by a risky move, and that was only happening if they lost the immunity challenge. This was confirmed when they went to the immunity challenge and only Ozzy and Cochrane has discussed the risky move -- no tribe in shock.

** Cochrane, bless his heart. I really want to like him. I do like him, and I'd love to see him go far. But could he have looked any more pathetic and pasty in his war paint?

http://www.cbs.com/cms/files/imageca...s/episode7.jpg

And could he have been any more pathetic with the rope? Poor guy.



Yes, I cringed more and more every time they did that. Praying that God would help them find the immunity idol? (Though at least Sophie saw the problem with Coach praying for that.) And then Brandon's "It's good to have The Big Guy on your side." Yes, Brandon -- I'm sure your tribe is the Chosen People compared to those Canaanites at Savaii. I couldn't help but wonder how Albert, Edna and Rick felt about it. Did they share the feeling or were they essentially being forced to go along so as not to alienate teammates? As a Christian, I found it very offensive.

How I wish we had Matt back -- yes, he talked about his faith a lot too, but he prayed for strength to do his best and be his best, not for God to favor him over the others on the Island.

Well, if Ozzy beats Christine, then the strategy was successful. The Survivor commercial during TAR just said they will merge this week. *if*

I totally take this back...great episode. Wow.

Hate to agree with Brandon, but he was right as they left tribal...they brought it on themselves treating Coachman like crap and then asking for his help.

I had that same thought. Not only asking for his help, but expecting it as though it was owed them.

I still can't decide whether I think Cochrane made the smart move or not (in terms of his own game), but the previous had my eyes rolling so hard that I thought I might dislocate them. Whitney in his face telling him how he "disgusts" her? Maybe somebody needs to explain to Whitney and some of the others what game they're playing.

I have no idea why autospell changed Cochrane to Coachman...but anyway...

For now I'm going to say that he made a smart move for himself. For one, he avoided having to pick a rock (still a stupid tie breaker, in my opinion). He got rid of Keith, who was one of his biggest bullies. Either way, he's still at the bottom of the totem pole...EXCEPT now that he's shown he can be flexible, he might be able to put himself in a tie breaker situation (again) when the majority alliance has to start turning on eachother. It might be decided as well that he's good jury fodder and therefore more beneficial to keep around than someone else in the majority alliance.

The two downsides I can see are that he pissed off his former tribe who, if things continue in the current pattern, will make up the majority of the jury and the old saying about the evil you know being better than the evil you don't. I don't know that he had much of a shot of getting jury votes whichever direction he went (hence the jury fodder comment above), so he may have at least increased his consolation prize money.

This is the main reason I lean toward smart move. (And why don't they go back to something like building fire?) And I agree with just about everything else you said.

As for who goes to the jury and it being mostly Savaii, I wonder. Ozzy has a chance of going to the end -- he has a way of dominating in challenges. We could see Keith return from RI. And I don't know how much longer Brandon can last.

I did find myself wondering last night whether Ozzy, Jim, Keith and Whitney were watching last night and realizing the truth of what Brandon said -- that Cochrane turned because of the way they treated him.

Frankly, I kind of ached for Cochrane last night -- it's like he so wants to be the kid who fits in and never has, it was a little painful to watch. That was especially the case when, as soon as Keith was voted out, Cochrane turned around to Ozzy and Jim to say "I swapped. I'll explain later." It was like he just couldn't help himself. "Please like me anyway."

But I did moan when Coach was giving Conchrane the pep talk. Actually, much of what he said was good and remarkably sane and kind, but then he had to go and add "I wasn't always the Dragon Slayer."

Connection with reality lost. But Cochrane has an opportunity with Coach if he can take advantage of it. He's someone for Coach to mentor and protect.

I keep forgetting to figure RI into the equation...probably because it's such a big question mark. I love it and hate it for that. I can't decide if it adds an additional layer of strategy or additional layer of dumb luck.

Also, did anyone follow Ozzy's logic of why he gave the HII to Whitney? To me, Keith (or maybe Jim, but definitely Keith) was the obvious target. The only one that would have been more obvious would have been Ozzy himself had he not won immunity. I also missed their logic in voting for Rick and not Coach (or maybe Brandon) who is a bigger challenge threat.

The question in your second paragraph is answered in your first. They assumed Upolo wouldn't vote for Keith because they wouldn't send a stronger player to RI where he could pull a Matt. (I don't know that they were smart to think that, but that's what they were thinking.)

As for Rick, Savaii thought he was least likely to have an immunity idol.

What Probst has to say about last night is interesting, and he agrees with us about not letting it go to drawing rocks.

I don't see the strategy in not sending strong players to RI. So what if they pull a Matt? At least they're doing it on RI and not in the immunity challenges, which is giving your alliance's stronger players a chance to win immunity. Also, if you do the math, those stronger players are going to end up there eventually, so why not send them sooner rather than later on the chance that they'll have an off day or one of the challenges will involve more brains or luck than brawn or skill and they'll be eliminated.

Yeah. I didn't say it was smart thinking -- just that it was their thinking.

Yeah. What AF & MC said.

Great episode! I was happy to see Ozzy beat Christine if for no other reason than to see how Savaii's plan pans out.

I'm glad Cochran flipped, to be honest. I don't think it was the wisest move on his part, but I can completely see why he did it. The only reason I can't get fully on board with it is because he's still at the bottom of the totem pole, and he's a step lower on Upolu's pole than he was on Savaii's. Once Upolu votes out the remaining 4 Savaii members, Cochran's probably next to go. But, there's a lot of Survivor to be played before they get to the point of voting out their own tribe, so this concern may not carry much weight. Of course, this is assuming they continue to vote along tribal lines which, judging by the preview, may not be the case for much longer.

Brandon's comment to Keith (or was it Jim?) in tribal was spot-on. I liked him more last night than I think I have all season. However, I wasn't real big on the comment he made to Cochran at the end - something along the lines of 'stay close to me'. I think Cochran has finally started standing up for himself (it's about time!), and I'd hate to see him get taken under the wrong player's wing. Coach, sure. Brandon? No. Brandon and Cochran both have issues and the two of them together would send each other down a dark, spiraling path.

Oh, and MC, thanks for the link to Jeff's blurb on EW! I had quit looking for his blog ever since since he took up during-show tweeting instead of post-show blogging. While answering a few questions does not a blog make, it's nice to get some post-show info from Jeff.

I had the same thought. Then I realized we didn't see much Brandon last night, so maybe that's why I liked him more. :D


I took the "stay close to me" comment as a literal, right-now thing -- stay close to me and I won't let them get too close to you or get in your face. Stay by me while things cool off.

And you're welcome. ;)

Looking back at it again, I seem to have misheard/misread Wednesday night. The thinking (which came from Jim) was this: Everyone assumed there would be a tie and they'd be going to rocks. Jim thought Upolu, expecting the tie, would vote for Whitney so that she would be exempt from drawing rocks, and Keith (and presumably Jim) would still be at risk. By contrast, if they'd voted for Keith from the get-go and the tie came as expected, Keith would be exempt from drawing rocks and wouldn't be going.

So sure of this was Jim that he didn't think there would be a tie -- he thought giving Whitney the idol would nullify all votes he was sure she'd get and Rick would be gone.

Well, they most assuredly outsmarted themselves, didn't they? This is the kind of overthinking that gets me in trouble in real life. :p

Were the survivors allowed to bring their clothes this season? They are not running around in their undies and then Cochran had on a jacket I don't remember seeing him in prior to tonight.

Three people on RI?

DaffyKD

That was Coach's jacket. They all came more or less fully-dressed, and then they got swimsuits a few weeks in. Perhaps they realized how much America was scarred by Phillip last season.

And they did the same thing last season -- three people were at RI after the merge before they started challenges there again.

At the beginning of the season, I really liked Jim and Whitney. Now, they just grate on my nerves.

And Brandon's stupid was back at TC.

Last night's episode certainly supports the 'the less we see of Brandon, the more we like him' theory. I think the kid is seriously deluded. Cochran doesn't stand a chance if he doesn't align with Upolus other than Brandon. Sofie, Coach, maybe even Albert. And it needs to happen soon.

It sounds like I'm pulling for Cochran. And maybe I am in a way, but I think I'm pulling for a moral victory instead of a literal Sole Survivor kind of victory. Cochran certainly isn't the first contestant to be bullied, and I'm sure he won't be the last. But it's been nice to see him get a little vengeance.

I chuckled at the end when, at Redemption Island, Jim, Ozzy or Keith said, 'We were supposed to be the final three.' Ha ha.

I watched last week's episode online since I was at Mozart Requiem dress rehearsal, and I think I shut it off to early (I thought it seemed short), because when last night's episode started, I did not remember two being voted off...

I guess it was an easy way to get to the backstabbing stuff quicker picking off the last two in a row last night.

Right. And I thought it was interesting that Cochran called it.

Cochran is a smart kid, and he seems to understand a lot about the game of Survivor. I was so disappointed and surprised, then, that he didn't work harder to solidify the Cochran-Dawn-Albert-Sofie-Whitney thing. Had they done that, especially considering that two people were voted out, they could have practically guaranteed themselves a 1 in 5 shot. I wonder what happened to change their minds? Surely it wasn't Coach's cocky 'Instant death upon anyone who goes against my wishes' tirade.

ETA: I just reread this thread from the beginning. While I don't ordinarily quote myself, I chuckled at this:
Evidently, I was drinking the Coach Kool-Aid early on - I was duped! He hasn't lowered that pedestal at all. AT ALL!!

Going into TC I was pretty sure that Cochran's foreshadowing of a double vote for Dawn and Whitney was a stronger possibility than voting Edna out. I think Cochran did it to himself, too, with the prediction. Knowing it was likly that they would vote twice in a row with no time for discussion kind of killed the plan to vote out Edna. That would have left too many variables including who to take out in the second vote and a contingency plan if that person won immunity.

What I still don't get...taking out someone like Coach or Ozzy's "second", especially at this stage of the game...why Edna? Yeah, she's probably voting for Coach...unless you take out Coach now and it's not an option. Yeah, he'd probably be pissed and not vote for whoever was a part of that plan, but unless you plan on taking him to the end, he's got to vote for someone, and he's probably going to vote for whoever comes back from RI, since they most likely won't have had a hand in voting him out. So, whether they vote him out now or later, they are probably not losing a jury vote.

That may have been what sealed it for Albert -- not so much the speech as the fact that Coach was on to him. As for Cochrane, I think he trusts Coach more than Albert and thinks his chances are better with Coach.

And frankly, I think he's right about that. Between Coach and Albert, I'd rather hitch my wagon to Coach (words I never thought I'd type). Albert shows glimmers of strategy, but he seems to fail at pulling it off. Coach, on the other hand, is playing a pretty flawless game. Plus, he has an HII.

Also, I think Cochrane may also think that he already has a Scarlet T (for "traitor") on his buff, and he may figure he won't do himself any favors by adding a second one.

I was busy last Wednesday prepping Thanksgiving dinner and assumed that was a recap episode...I guess it was, since no one bumped this thread?

It was. Might be worth looking for online -- it had some entertaining moments, as well as a few elucidating ones.

I usually skip the "highlights" episode, but I'm glad I watched this one. The new scenes of the sleeping arrangements in Ozzy's tribe shed a lot more light on how poorly Cocharan (sp?) was treated by his tribemates.

That along with the way the made sure that killing the chicken was as uncomfortable and embarrassing for Cochrane as possible.