I would love to sink my teeth into University of Texas' bid list, if anyone can find it. Much/most/almost all of my knowledge about competitive Southern recruitments comes from Greek Chat, and it is my perception that Texas is one of the most brutal. Since 92% of the students are in state, I'd be interested to see how those 8% of out of staters fare.

It's a safe bet that the traditionally aged freshmen (those most likely to go through rush) lean more heavily out-of-state than the student body as a whole. As flagship public universities, Auburn and Bama attract a fair number of older, returning students and transfers from smaller, commuter-heavy 2- and 4-year schools. Students in that demographic are generally in-state, and they generally do not rush. My guess is that the geographic balance among 18-year-old freshmen is closer to 50/50.

I would also love to see a UT bid list if someone can find it. It would be very interesting to analyze. So if someone knows where we could find that, it would be great!

A few years ago, UGA had a spreadsheet on their greek life website that also listed grade level as well as hometown. I do remember having a lot of fun sorting it different ways, and in particular by hometown where I noticed trends of certain metro Atlanta high schools heavily represented in particular chapters. Those kinds of statistics, like the Alabama and Auburn examples here, can back up or disprove a lot of myths....like "ABC only takes Birmingham girls", or "I didn't get invited back because I'm not from Alabama".

Thank you SOOO much to DubaiSis, unarose, and myopicsunflower for making this possible!

These spread sheets are amazing! Thanks so much Violetpretty and all of your wonderful assistants.:D

Just a little firsthand info about Tennessee since i felt a little insulted by the "nontraditional SEC" comment. I have one daughter there (and another in high school who will apply). My daughter had NUMEROUS friends who did not get in and ended up going to Alabama or Ole Miss. These were both back up schools for my daughter also. I was actually quite surprised when the guidance counselor shared the stats with me. Apparently Tennessee has gotten very competitive since the HOPE scholarship. I am not putting down these other great schools, but it irks me a little that people have an incorrect perception of Tennessee!

Obviously the sorority house are only now in the process of being built (they did break ground!), but the greek system there is very traditional and very competitive. There were over 900 girls signed up for recruitment this year.

Just my two cents! I attended another SEC school too many years ago to count. I can also tell you that my daughter's recruitment experience was every bit as stressful as I remember mine being. :) I've enjoyed reading these threads as I've had several rec girls, especially last year and this year...and I expect next year too!!

Oh, I didn't explain myself well. I read your post, but it came out all huffy. I should have checked your profile before saying anything because I honestly saw that you are in Chicago and thought to myself "What the heck does she know about the SEC?" The noob learns a GC lesson - you know, the one about assuming. :o

What I was trying to express were mainly these things:

1. Students from Georgia (at least the hundreds that I worked with over the past decade) are/have been pursuing Tennessee along with Auburn & Alabama since UGA became more competitive due to the Hope Scholarship.

2. Since Tennessee began offering the Hope Scholarship a few years ago, it has become more competitive academically a la UGA, which has led to slightly smaller PNM groups and quotas. When I was at UT, there were 15 NPC groups. Now there are 13.

3. Because UT is becoming more competitive academically due to the Hope Scholarship, it really isn't going to be as viable an option for those students who are seeking an SEC-like experience but may not be able to get into UGA.

OK....really this was all off the original topic anyway, so 'nuff said.

More bid lists, please. Monmouth Duo love, dear Barbino! :)

I think y'all are both saying the same thing.

When barbino and I attended UK - and I should add I had family (black sheep of course ;)) who attend that school down in Knoxville around the same time - both schools didn't always get a lot of students from other states within the SEC footprint - like Georgia, Florida or Alabama. However, I happened to know quite a few Mississippians who attended Kentucky. Go figure. :confused:

To be clear, UK and UT are now - and have always been - SEC schools through and through. And when it comes to rush, both are competitive. However, perhaps not at the level of say Bama, Ole Miss and Auburn. At least not yet.

However, over the years, more and more students attending UK now come from other states within the SEC footprint. As such, some of the so called "uber-competitiveness" that some may feel is the "norm" at their "home" SEC school, is now being brought to Kentucky. And I suspect to Tennessee as well.

At least that is how I interpreted barbino's posts.

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/530303/SECFamily.jpg
^^^ Now this is Old School. :cool:

Except, my experience at Tennessee was that a ton of students attended Tennessee who are from Georgia, the Georgia kids that I worked with were more often likely as not to be trying to get into Tennessee (the fact that I had attended UT was serendipitous), and now this same demographic is having a more difficult time getting in because of the Hope Scholarship now being in place in Tennessee. My expectation is that UT is going to be increasingly challenging from an admissions standpoint, just as has happened with UGA. I have no clue as to what's happening at UK, even though I am friends with some alums.

LOVE the old school photo!

More bid lists, please!

I understand. The state of Georgia is pretty much "just south" of Knoxville. As such, it would be expected that a good number of out of state students at Tennessee would come from an adjoining state like Georgia. A majority of Kentucky’s out of state students come from her boarder states as well – Tennessee, Ohio, Illinois, and Indiana to name a few. However, Kentucky has seen increases in students from all over as well partly due to higher admissions standards and the proximity to their home states/towns. Lexington is located within 600 miles of two-thirds of the U.S. population. So for some who might like the so called “SEC experience” UK provides an attractive choice.

All that is good and well. However, and I may be way off base (it won’t be the first time, nor the last), I interpreted barbino's comments to be directed toward or about the NPC recruitment experience at UK and UT and how that compared to other SEC schools.

My position is that as the admission standards increased at UT and UK, more “quality” out-of-state students enroll (as you noted at UT). Add to that, many in-state students – who might have elected to attend college out of state – are also staying in state (again as you noted at UT). Thus the overall “credentials” of the PNM pool might be considered “better”. And because they are overachievers, these PNMs are - again generally speaking - more competitive than their predecessors.

Now add that many of these out of state students come from areas where the so called “uber-competitiveness” recruitment is the norm. Then over time, the recruitment experiences at UK and UT become even more competitive. More along the lines of some of the other SEC schools.

---
And yeah, I love the "Family Portrait". It is from around 1969 so it needs to be updated.

I know someone who looks EXACTLY like the Volunteer in that picture. He even wears a hat all the time.

If someone can get their hands on the Texas A & M bid list they will be my new best friend forever . . .

I'd like to run the data for UT and the other big Texas schools to compare/contrast the in state/out of state differences with Auburn and Bama, the schools we do have the data on. And yes, I know that makes me an out of the closet geek. I own it.

Ditto to this. Please let me know if you hear anything!

Tease!
 

Oh, AggieAXO - I saw that you had posted and thought "YES! She will have the bid list!". :(

My Gamma Phi contact was told that releasing it was a privacy issue . . . but I just know SOMEONE here can get it.

I have a hard copy of the bid lists from North Texas, but it doesn't list anything other than their recruitment id #'s and their names. However, I'm gonna go see if irishpipes has her annual thread up and go put some numbers up there for y'all.

Nope, I wish. It seems A&M does not like to release lists like the other schools. Most of the time to find out where girls pledged, we had to read the Battalion (A&Ms newspaper-many soroities will take out an ad with their pledges names).

Which ones do you want? I put in a sprinkling for comparison of big greek schools.... These are the overall percent of out of state students (including international) for undergrads.

University of Georgia: 10% (Athens, GA)
University of Kentucky: 12% (Lexington, KY)
University of Tennessee: 14% (Knoxville, TN)
University of Alabama: 21% (Tuscaloosa, AL)
Mississippi State University: 21% (Mississippi State, MS)
Auburn University: 30% (Auburn, AL)

University of Arizona: 24% (Tucson, AZ)
University of California -- Berkeley: 14% (Berkeley, CA)
Clemson University: 30% (Clemson, SC)
Indiana University Bloomington: 28% (Bloomington, IN)
University of Oklahoma: 18% (Norman, OK)

University of North Texas: 10% (Denton, TX)
Texas Tech University: 6% (Lubbock, TX)
University of Texas -- Austin: 5% (Austin, TX)
Texas A&M University -- College Station: 4% (College Station, TX)

- also not a closeted geek.....

:D

Where did you find those numbers? They're drastically different from what I found on collegeboard.com, at least for Auburn and Alabama.

Alabama http://quickfacts.ua.edu/demographics.html 67% from Alabama, 31% out of state, 3% international (check your math Bama, that's over 100%)

And that's student population, not Greek population, right? So this is one set of numbers to use when comparing placement outcomes. But what I'm interested in is the percentage of instate/out of state sorority rush placement. I think it's a lot more diverse than people think, and the childhood connections are helpful but not as critical as some think. Based on the numbers we've run, I'm right, but that is for only 2 schools which is not helpful in the big picture.

For the sorority members/alums who don't want to share lists due to security concerns, please feel free to share the lists minus the names (and high schools for that matter). I personally don't care one bit who the girls ARE. I wasn't even looking at that column except for alphabetizing purposes. I just want to know who pledged from what state, and to a lesser extent what city.

As a market researcher who deals with statistics on a daily basis I see this all the time. That's why when I write reports, I often add "results may add to more than 100% due to rounding". :D

I know I am in the minority here, but I like that they are respecting the privacy of these women/students. Wasn't it just last year new members in the South were targeted via facebook by a person pretending to be an alumna and being super inappropriate? FERPA (Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act) is probably what is in play here, as what sorority a woman joins is personally identifying information. I sure as hell hope there is some sort of written consent on hand for the schools that publish name, sorority, and home town. The sororities individually sharing that information isn't illegal as they don't fall under FERPA, which is why ads are put in the newspaper no problem.

My school handles FERPA down to whether your name can be released as a scholarship winner, if you're on the Dean's list, published in the newspaper, even in the graduation program when one graduates. In light of recent events on my campus I'm happy we do that as it allows students to make their own choices and protect people on different levels.


I'm a huge fan of +/- error, or your "due to rounding" but it just made me laugh since it is on the page of a higher education institution.

TCU ZTA list, with photo (page 5).

http://www.tcu360.com/sites/default/...2011-08-30.pdf

I understand the school not releasing it - but sororities are now under the impression that FERPA means they cannot tell alumnae where a particular girl pledged. I get that it's a sick, sad, dangerous world out there, but really - if I wrote a rec, or am president of an alumnae panhellenic, odds are I don't want the information to stalk a girl (unless sending a note of congratulations is stalking.) Next year I plan to ask pnms to PLEASE e-mail me or whoever is president or vice-president with their results, although given that they are starting school and doing exciting sorority bid-day and early pledgeship events, that might be asking too much.

This is probably a dumb/obvious question, but can't you email them? I ask for an email address (and usually it's automatically on their resume) from each of my rec girls. Not for my purposes, but if for some reason the chapter needed it at a later point.

I really don't think the average collegiate chapter is aware of FERPA (heaven knows their parents aren't when they call professors and the university about their kids), but they are aware of their own RM policies which some groups stress to not put names, photos, email addresses, etc. on web pages, advertise when and where closed events are, and it sucks for you but it is the reality of the world we live in. You might think it is "sad sad" but I think college students and younger aren't taught enough about protecting their safety and privacy. There's a whole thread about a continual alumna perp in the Greek Life forum, who is operating in the region you want information about. I'm not surprised if between that and the facebook creeper last year information is harder to obtain than in previous years.

If you're writing recs you have the information for PNMs, so why don't you just contact them directly or their family? You answered the situation yourself, the successful PNMs are busy being college freshmen, and the collegians are recovering from recruitment. I get that it is important to you, but it isn't a priority for the chapters and I doubt that will change with super busy over programmed college students. In a perfect world alumnae receive thank you cards for submitting recs and updates about their chapters, but we don't.

I do encourage pnms to write; I am not going to contact them personally in case they did NOT have a successful recruitment and the last thing they need is a reminder. I would like to see the CHAPTERS be pro-active. Usually there is an alumna who is responsible for handling recs - she would seem to be the perfect person to do it. After recruitment she should have a little time to express the appreciation each chapter should have to those alumnae who write recs.

Some Gamma Phi chapter advisors are pro-active - I send a self-addressed stamped envelope with a sheet listing all the young women for whom I have written recs. Some return it, and some don't, so I think it fair to say that IHQ doesn't have a policy on it. Claiming privacy issues makes no sense. Sending me the results of those for whom I have written recs is in no way, shape or form a privacy risk for the girls - I already have their information, don't I? And it's not just idle curiosity. Our alumnae panhellenic has actives come and speak to pnm high school seniors in the spring, and we try to get a mix of chapters and campuses. Knowing where local girls are enables us to provide the best possible information to our high school seniors.

eta - and the "sic, sad" was a "Daria" reference. Yes, I am old.

This (particularly in bold). I know in the business world, it's becoming more important than ever to protect the privacy of clients and employees. People are just more instinctive this way...

Jinx!

I get that, and my chapter (way back in the day) did all this. I just think people are more wary and more busy these days. Maybe if you emailed your rec girls right before recruitment started to wish them well and "keep you posted" you might have a better response rate?

Poor KK Krenek - those initials! :eek:

I agree!

This I like and will do next recruitment season.

Do you mean Sick Sad World the news program that played on Daria?

So why not contact their family if they are local if you don't want to ask the young woman in the event she wasn't successful? Ask one of those local actives invited by your alumnae panhellenic for the information? Use all of your resources instead of counting on collegians to mail back your sheet or contact you? Find out who the alumna is who handles the recs and contact her (totally foreign to me, and not specifically for Alpha Gam, must be a thing where you live for bigger recruitment's) instead of the current situation.

The information is obviously very important to you, but the way we think our collegiate sisters should act, behave, and respond is not going to realistically change or happen so to get the information you're going to need to get creative while realizing we're not their priority and privacy is a factor, whether you believe it or like it. I'll own that I am currently a bit more sensitive to privacy and safety as a former professor murdered an alumna of my chapter last week, but frankly between that and the alumna perp thread it is obvious people aren't always what they seem.

Thank you - "Sick, Sad World" is what I meant.

If you will read my responses, you will see that it is not the collegians who I think should be doing this, but the alumna in charge of recommendations. I will take the suggestions to write BEFORE recruitment to encourage the pnms to contact me after recruitment. I wouldn't contact the families for the same reason I wouldn't contact the young women after recruitment. Also, I clearly stated why I was interested. I understand that you are sensitive to privacy concerns, but those don't factor in to my request that alumnae advisors let those sisters who send recs know the result of recruitment. Some Gamma Phi chapters even have pre-made cards they send. It doesn't take a great deal of time to check ___ did not pledge __ pledged Gamma Phi ___ pledged _____. That's it - you can do it under a minute. Those chapters who have crazy-go-nuts pledge classes also tend to be the chapters who have alumnae committees dealing with recs, so it isn't even a case of one woman being overwhelmed.

Idea...maybe a bad one, but...why don't you have those printed up and sent along with your rec to the GPhi chapter? Filled out with the PNM's name, a stamp and your address to return to? Then just send a sticky note on it to have the chapter please check the appropriate box and send to you once they know her status? Then all the "work" is done for them & they just have to check the box?

That's basically what I do - I send a list of the pnms with a line to fill in IF they pledged - if it's blank, they didn't pledge. I send it with a stamped, self-addressed envelope. Again, some return it; some don't.

Gotcha. Missed that.

What SWTXBelle is doing ought to be more than enough to get the info she wants. There's interest in maintaining safety, and then in contrast, there's disregard for alumnae service in the form of writing recs. If an alumna provides that degree of help in terms of doing the recs and providing her own results form to a chapter with a self-addressed stamped envelope, it shouldn't be asking to much to get the form returned with a little info about what happened to each woman.

I mainly write RIFs to UGA, Auburn and Alabama. Auburn and Alabama acknowledge receiving them and let me know the link to the web bid lists and when it will be up. UGA sends me individual cards with the results for each girl, but because of the work involved with the numbers of PNMs they have, I don't usually get them until long after recruitment.

I really appreciate their efforts.

Sadly, I've just resorted to Facebook creeping when I want to know and am too scared to ask. 90% of the time, there's a photo of the girl wearing Bid Day gear up as her profile picture within 48 hours. :) (creeper...)

i know...what were her parents thinking?