You made a shitty argument, couldn't back it up and went with the personal attack.

Pretty damn pathetic, man.

If you're gonna go for a personal attack, be more creative than the "are you on your period" one. Just my two cents.

Lame, right? For some reason it was the first thing thing that came to mind.....

So what was the "shitty" argument? I was just wondering if we can trust a bunch of 19 year olds to make better decisions than the "adults", especially when those decisions effect policy of other GLO's. You're the one who lost it and flew off the handle...but than "knowing" you i'm not surprised.

It is your MO.

Huh??

What does what happened have to do with adults (by that, I assume you mean HQs or alumni boards for the local groups) vs 19 year olds? I didn't see anything about fraternity or sorority alumni getting involved.

Rereading the article to make sure there wasn't, I just had my eye caught by this quote from one of the sorority presidents.

:eek:

Now THAT is JUST. FUCKED. UP. After you make a difficult decision that involves your fellow students and that although you believe is right, you also know may really hurt people emotionally, no matter how you feel about the bad-guy involved, the last thing you should be doing is "bouncing."

I wasn't talking about sorority or fraternity alumni groups, I was just wondering why the police or the uni wouldn't be the ones stepping in as the primary decision makers in these assault cases. Was this guy even charged with anything? Any fraternity, and hopefully university, worth their salt should expel a student with an assault charge filed against him/her by another student.

The idea that Suzy Sorority might feel more obligated to report her assault to Panhel over the police doesn't sit well with me.

As for the the social aspect... I could care less if a sorority decides not to associate with a fraternity that has creepers in it. More power to them (the sororities) actually.

What also concerns me is who are the ones that decide if a "crime" actually happened? Are these girls going to be able to decipher truth from rumor/hearsay/? Who's to say that an accidental bump in a crowded house party won't turn into a "OMG HE PUSHED/ASSAULTED ME"?

Because you're being misogynistic.


Your shitty argument was comparing assault to 'beligerent' sorority women.
Oh and the misogynistic "Bitter Betty" comment. That was shitty too. Complaining about the imaginary wrongly accused men when this was created because of actually assaulted women is bullshit at its most basic.

You seem to mistake 'calling you out on your bullshit' with 'flying off the handle.' I really don't think you're even trying here.

This is not about someone reporting assault to panhel rather than to the campus, the fraternity, or to the police. But instead it is the sorority women saying that they will not associate with groups that fail to punish/remove men who assault women. And it is a great idea.

It's so surprising they managed to think of it, I bet at least 25% of them were on their periods at the time.

You do know that YOU are the one who brought up the whole period thing right? Like I never would have even wrote it had it not been for you bringing it up first.

And apparently only men are capable of assault...interesting to know :rolleyes:

Yeah but you know how those bitter betties are, always convincing their organizations and all other panhel orgs to stop associating with fraternities.

Gee, seems like this is the problem on Dartmouth's campus, feel free to take it up with the fraternities why they don't have the same policies towards sororities.

Keep trying. As long as you think mental illness and periods are legitimate insults, you're still in the pathetic zone.

Just drop it already. You don't always have to get the last word in. You read into things too much and get so defensive. What's the matter? You never even really get into the meat of things, you just launch personal attacks. So many threads go sour when you're around.

LOL @ bolded.

So, you can't defend anything you said. Good to know.

Not when you misconstrue what I say. I haven't been getting much sleep lately so maybe I'm not getting my point across right, but I'm not saying what you seem to think I'm saying.

Fair enough, you might not have meant to, and if you clear it up, I'd be glad to read and try and re-understand what you're saying.

But really you ran down the personal attack lane with that comment, and then tried push it off on me (along with the Drolefille, Destroyer of Threads thing, for which you give me far too much credit.) I really don't dislike you PIKA, I'm just not going to run away because you think I'm "off my meds." And when anyone goes down that road, their point becomes pretty moot.

Gotcha. I just didn't understand where you were coming from. :)

I'm guessing there is an overall reluctance to report things to the police as they'll just use it as an excuse to be even more up the Greek system's ass than they already are. People self-police to avoid that involvement. However, if somone threw a freaking APPLIANCE at me, screw that, I'm calling the cops. :p

From the Panhellenic Presidents
http://thedartmouth.com/2011/05/16/opinion/sandmeyer

An explanation of what they are trying to accomplish and they also acknowledge that the policy needs work.

From the Monday May 16 postings on The Dartmouth's site:

Comments from students about possible guidelines / standards, and so on:
http://thedartmouth.com/2011/05/16/opinion/shortanswer

From the first article:

Quote:

From now on, if we become aware of an alleged assault or threat committed by an affiliated student, we will notify his or her organization, after which the organization has 24 hours to initiate an investigative response. If the organization fails to do so, all eight Panhellenic sororities will cancel any joint events with that organization until it has taken action and finalized a response. In addition, if an organization becomes aware of an alleged assault or threat and does not communicate with us, we will consider their silence a violation of the transparency needed for Greek officers to ensure the safety of their members. In this event, we will suspend joint programming with that organization until internal procedures are finalized.

:rolleyes:

From the second article:

Quote:

I don’t know what that standard should be — though it seems unfair that the Panhellenic presidents can make their decisions without first conducting a private hearing of the involved parties. Perhaps sororities should wait until the Judicial Affairs committee makes its own decisions before they act

Agreed. As KSig said earlier, if this is a criminal matter, the proper authorities need to be the ones handling this.

What if two girls from two different sororities have a slap fight? What then? How will they be held accountable? Are they not permitted to have mixers?

Oh, and IMO this is a really stupid move to make on a campus that has open parties. No mixer? Fine. We'll invite all the unaffiliated girls we invite to our other parties anyway.

I'm still ok with it. If the fraternities want to have an open party then bully for them.

I'm just saying I think the sororities may be overestimating the impact this action will have.

In a lot of ways the result doesn't matter. The fact that they're standing up and saying 'No' together does.

Update Friday, May 20:

http://thedartmouth.com/2011/05/20/news/panhell

I'm all for the message they're trying to send, but I don't think this is the way to go about it. Certainly not with a "24 hour" rule.

Presidents formalize new Panhell policy
 

I don't like this part at all.

If the alleged victim is unaffiliated, the Panhellenic Council as a whole will contact the president of the organization to which the alleged perpetrator belongs, according to the policy.

I would be somewhat pissed if a group that I either chose not to be a part of (or that didn't choose me to be a part of them) was in effect filing charges without my consent to satisfy their agenda.

Um, if you're unaffiliated, why do you care if Panhel isn't having an event with them anyway?

There are no charges filed. Basically they're saying that the fraternities can't slack off because a victim is not in a sorority. Otherwise the chapters are creating two classes of women - those protected, and those not. In this way, all are protected.

I = an unaffiliated woman.

#1. I might be friends with the members of this fraternity and not want to see anything negative happen to them. Which is why I would care about them not having mixers. (As if this is only about not having mixers. It will definitely get across campus that they've been "censured" [for lack of a better word] by Panhel and that can have a negative impact on the group in many ways.) Which leads to...

#2. What happened may have been misinterpreted. I should not have to go and explain to a bunch of women I have no affiliation with the details of something that is none of their business.

#3. I don't care to have my name or person associated with any sort of "discipline" by a group of sorority women.

Which is why the requirement is 'investigation' not 'boot the bum out.' The point is fraternities cannot ignore assault, but must at the least look into it. As the article notes, most national orgs appear to have some sort of procedure and the locals are creating/have created them. if any of them read "upon sorority threats, evict the bastard" I'd be very very surprised.

Additionally at no point does the supposed victim have any requirement to go to Panhel. Seems like they can talk to the fraternity if it's needed to clear things up and problem solved. This is pretty much what should happen if there's an incident anyway. "Hey no, it was no big deal, yada yada yada." "ok, cool wanted to be sure you weren't hurt." or whatever.

Then you probably won't bring the matter to Panhel in the first place. You'll note it says that they will only respond if the matter is brought to them.

It's not really about being in a sorority or not, it's just the best leverage and organization that the women have.

Actually, those two things are not the same, per the article.

It says nothing about WHO can bring the matter to Panhel. Example: Drunk Diane and Drunk Dave are having a fight at the ABC house. Drunk Dave shakes Drunk Diane. Nebby Nancy (who doesn't know either party) sees this, is enraged, and contacts Panhel.

Maybe LocalLove9 can shed some light on whether this is truly the case, but the way this article is written, it certainly seems like the above scenario can happen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 2058169) I don't like this part at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drolefille (Post 2058182) Um, if you're unaffiliated, why do you care if Panhel isn't having an event with them anyway?

Protected? How are they protected? Because an organization that they’re not a member of isn’t going to have a party at the fraternity’s house this weekend?

I'm going to have to agree with 33girl here.

It doesn't matter who reports this to Panhel, it's not the job of sorority women to speak on behalf of all women on campus.

If you choose not to have social events with a fraternity because of an alleged incident involving a sorority member, so be it. If you want to get involved in the life of a young woman who has nothing to do with you or your organization, you need to back off.

I mean, what will this lead to? Questioning of the “victim” by Panhellenic to determine how serious the incident is? Ridiculous accusations by crazy girls (yes, this happens), leading to the cutting of ties between two organizations which is based on nothing at all? It's a slippery slope they're heading down.

To think that fraternity men will only be held accountable if sorority women watch over all of the women on campus is ridiculous. If a female student feels that her personal space has been violated, she can go to the school or to the police and file a report. I’m sure at that point, the whole school will know, and Panhellenic can make a decision based on that information. But a “random” (whether it be the victim, or someone who claims to have heard or saw something happen) reporting a problem to Panhellenic is going to cause more problems than I think Panhel wants to deal with.

If an incident turns out to be no big deal, the “victim” won’t make it one. If it is and she reports it (to the proper authorities), then you can make a decision based on charges brought against the fraternity member. The end.