Not "offenders" that fight back during the capture/arrest attempt. They get a hole (or twenty) in center mass.

I can't help but wonder what people would be saying if Obama did NOT give the OK for the assassination, and had OBL been responsible for another terrorist attack at some point in the hypothetical future, and then it came out that "well, the Americans could have killed him back in May 2011, but didn't." What a shitstorm that could have been.

That depends on what fighting back involves.

For example, Resisting Arrest is not automatically cause for a hole (and especially not twenty holes--excessive force, much?) in the center mass.

Disclaimer: The laws of our land aren't international laws and don't necessarily apply to terrorist suspects captured or killed abroad.

I wonder what people would be saying if the military had gone to kill (I don't think they ever intended to capture, but only they know) Osama; and Osama and his crew were fully prepared and ended up killing all of the military involved as well as staged another terrorist attack to pay the U.S. back for the attempt.

Who knows, right? I guess anything's possible when all we have to go by is the "successful" outcome.

I firmly believe in "I don't condone in, but I understand." That means that I can truly see why a particular outcome is preferred and accepted. I can even personally agree with it at some level. However, personal opinions and anger over Osama aside, I'm less inclined to say we could've killed someone and more inclined to say we could've captured someone. It's fine that people wanted him dead immediately and believe that payback's a bitch. People just need to understand how there are others who question the legality and even morality of it. That doesn't make those people less sensitive to terrorism, less American, or clueless about the victims of 9/11.

I said twenty because if there is a team involved, the person raises a weapon at the team, and the team fire at him all at once, then that can pretty much add up to something around there. I'm not talking about one cop unloading more than one pistol into some guy.

@IrishLake, they've said that Clinton had opportunities to kill him years ago and didn't:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4540958/...opportunities/

You know it doesn't always work that way in terms of the police just being able to open shots to the point where a suspect can have 20 shots to the center mass. A suspect fighting back or resisting arrest does not always mean the suspect has a weapon and poses a threat to a potential victim or the police officers. The police can't just shoot someone just because the person is a nuisance and won't give up so easily.

Another disclaimer: It is probably the case that the situation in the Osama situation was a lot more hostile and dangerous than that. The military did a lot of research but we don't know whether they knew who was going to be present, who had weapons, and how deadly everything would be.

You beat me to it.

Should Clinton have killed Osama years ago?

Oh for god's sake, it was hyperbole. Anyways, a military operation with SEAL Team 6 is a lot different than any police operation that I feel like you are talking about.

Which is often not needed for a well-informed discussion.

You obviously didn't read or understand either of my disclaimers.

And I was responding to your hyperbolic response to Splash.

I'm not an expert in international law or legalities surrounding military operations but you guys have me confused over this due process talk as if Osama was arrested in Chicago or Dallas by the local PD. I'm still hearing mixed messages about the Pakistanis involvement in this operation. Some say they didn't know or authorize, others say that the Pakistanis had given a green light for small scale attacks in their country and this raid fell within those guidelines.

Well, 9/11 hadn't been carried out yet, so it's hard to say. I would say no, IMO. 9/11 is what sealed OBLs fate. I know he had his hands in embassy bombings, the USS Cole, etc and while tragic, they're just not on the same scale as the 9/11 attacks.

I've also wondered what a shitstorm we would be now if the mission was not a success, ala Iran 30+ years ago.

The paragraphs leading up to your disclaimers had absolutely nothing to add to this topic, as you were talking of police operations. "20 shots to center mass" may be hyperbolic, but it is safe to say that if in a military operation, if some "offender" (which I still have to laugh at) is fighting back rather than surrendering, the military is trained to shoot to kill. It's that simple.

And "The police can't just shoot someone just because the person is a nuisance and won't give up so easily." Osama was a "nuisance"? Your lack of describing something comparable is laughable. Again, not talking police and not talking about someone who is drunk and disorderly.

Darn. Most people will live to tell about it, though.

Who knows. There would be a big difference between conducting the raid and there was no Bin Laden VS conducting the raid and there was Bin Laden but he escapes and our troops get captured/killed by the terrorists. There would be two completely different fallouts.

But, you read and understood the disclaimers so you know that I know it isn't the same thing.

I know the military is trained to shoot to kill so I didn't interpret Splash to only be talking about military operations. Does the U.S. military just do whatever it does regardless of where it does it? Rhetorical.

This lets me know that you completely misunderstood my posts, including the disclaimers that are an instrumental part of my posts.

For real. I totally thought that link was going to be to the Don't Taze Me Bro video.
/taser tangent

The military would never tase known (or suspected, as far as some are concerned) terrorists.

But, all is not lost:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ge7Ea4UrTTk

I'm not sure, considering I posted about how "offenders" (Splash didn't define them in her post, so I was assuming she was talking about Osama, as this was the crux of this discussion) would get shot in that situation, and the first reply by you was talking about policemen. Apples to wheelbarrows.

I consider Splash to be talking generally since many who question the Osama killing are doing so based on the laws of their lands (since international laws and military practices aren't known by most people) and they wonder when all of these laws become invalid. But if you only want to talk about terrorists....

Suspected and known terrorists sometimes get caught and they aren't all immediately killed. Some are apprehended. Why some are apprehended and others are killed is the real crux of this issue.

Dangit, I flounced my /taser tangent.
Wha? I didn't say that at all. I was just commenting that, before I clicked the link, I thought it was going to be something else. :confused:

And wow! at that video you linked to. It really does take all kinds, doesn't it.

/taser tangent (for real this time)

I anoint this back and forth boring. I tried to electrify the conversation by adding talk of tasers, but sadly, no one found that shocking.

LOL. I was joking to lead up to the dumb youtube video. I wanted to keep the taser convo in line with the thread. Doh!

Indeed it does. I hope they look back at that video in a few years and think "what the hell were we thinking?!" That type of celebration is what makes some people wonder when celebration becomes...crazy...and that can add to some people's belief that the Osama killing wasn't absolutely necessary. Since the government and military do a lot of things that the layperson doesn't know about, the Osama killing could have been convenient and desired for nationalist and political reasons. But, we will never know whether it was absolutely necessary. I don't believe it was truly about the true safety of America and our allies, since terrorists don't really need Osama alive to do whatever they do, versus Americans and our allies feeling vindicated and a bit more safe.

Phew! That makes me feel better. But still, shame on you for not using sarcasm font.

Punny sis, very punny.

I have to so much agree with you.

More agree. If we didn't disagree so much on other things, I'd think you were my soul mate.

Prove it!!!!! :eek:

Taking Osama out was more of a symbolic move than a tactical one but I'm still happy to see that the bastard is finally gone.

I also hope his corpse is getting skull-fucked daily by hammerhead sharks.

Okay, so when people find it to be symbolic and the military says he was unarmed (they said he was unarmed as soon as they announced his killing but there apparently remains debate about that), surely people can see why some people find it to be an unnecessarily quick killing.

Some people's response: "Well, Osama's killings were unfair and unnecessarily quick."

My response: "True dat but Osama 'n dem are the terrorists. We aren't...right? That depends on who you ask and when you ask."


******

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/1445...lity-seals.htm

Yikes @ this article (reputable source?) saying "Obama" instead of "Osama."

I agree with Dr. Phil.

I hope no one ever has reason to say this about you.


I can almost see the steam coming out of (certain) people's ears, you heathen anti-American liberal you.

Who's really saying that Osama's killing was unfair? I think his death was the most appropriate course of action.

People were concerned that a gravesite was going to rally the jihadists but WTF do you think a 2 year trial in NYC would do? Let alone all the terrorist attacks demanding that the U.S. release Bin Laden blah blah blah.....

Like others have said, Bin Laden himself chose his demise long ago.

GAG ME WITH A FUCKIN SPOON :rolleyes:

You know what, if I killed over 3,000 innocent civilians than I would deserve to have that said about me and I would also deserve to be put down like the dog Bin Laden was.

If you killed 3,000 or 333,000 people, I still wouldn't say it about you.

Well congratulations on being a morally superior person. Maybe I and everyone else who's glad to see him gone can learn a lesson or two from you. :)

(I LOLed at the skull fucking visual. Guess that makes me sick huh?)

I know it is physically impossible with the size of "the hammer head" and an eye orbit so my mind immediately replaced with a narwhal but those only live in the Arctic and he was buried in the Indian Ocean. So then I went with being manhandled by a manatee.

VS, iLike.

People who believe his killing was or may have been unfair.