Yeah that ethnic minorities are non-Americans. Shoo perp, don't bother us.

Not remotely what I said. I said that somebody who is saying "I don't want to join a multi-cultural/NPHC/service etc. GLO" doesn't necessarily mean they do not want to associate with that race. They may just want an experience that those GLOs can't offer.

Obviously somebody joining a GLO with a specific racial focus values that racial identity. But I often see people saying that by joining an IFC/Panhellenic GLO you are implicitly saying you want to associate yourself with white people since they are historically white. I disagree with this, since if you want to join a GLO with the stereotypical experience your only options likely are predominately white.

We had a couple members who strongly identified with their cultural/ethnic backgrounds first and foremost who still joined our fraternity because it offered something that GLOs targeted to their specific ethnicity/culture could not. For example, one member used our fraternity as his social outlet, and then used other organizations for his cultural outlet (both a cultural dance team and an assembly of students with similar backgrounds). Of course there are members who want to join an IFC fraternity so they can assimilate with "white" culture and leave their culture behind out of shame. But I'm just saying that by joining an IFC/Panhellenic GLO you are not automatically assimilating and rejecting your own cultural heritage. You may just be using different organizations for that purpose and want to experience a more stereotypical Greek experience.

I don't know I said anything as such.

This is all well and good, but the OP specifically brought up race as an exclusionary factor.

Uh look, you can't divorce race out of the scenario. It doesn't mean that an individual has chosen to stop associating with X race but neither can you deny that race is a factor. No one here has said that the OP is rejecting his cultural heritage. But pretending that the majority aka "stereotypical" as you keep putting it, culture isn't white is silly. Minorities who join NPC orgs choose a culturally white experience AND they're not rejecting their heritage. It's not an either/or thing.

Also stop presuming "traditional" or even "stereotypical" = "white GLOs" here. I know it's a euphemism and it's probably the extent that someone like the OP understands the situation but you and I know better. Nothing is "untraditional" or "nonAmerican" about minority focused GLOs. And there are stereotypes about all types.
Dear lord, at least put effort into it.

I'm not sure why you're so troubled.

Perp.

Yes, thank you. This is exactly what I meant. However now I see that my ideas were filled with misconceptions. And looking back at my posts, they do seem very stupid and ignorant. Specially where I classify african americans (or ethnic minorities in general) as "non american". Please understand that I just had trouble expressing myself. Nonetheless, as your discussion has stated, NPHC organizations as well as other multi cultural organizations will not give me this fraternity experience I'm looking for. It is not to sound racist, or to, as other posters stated, be ashamed of my own heritage. What I want to know (and a few of you have already answered) is if race will be a setback if I want to get a bid from IFC groups

In some chapters on some campuses it might be, in others it wouldn't be. That's what we mean when we say we can't necessarily tell you. Pick a school, go through rush and you'll know. And hell, you might even get all the girls because of your accent you never know. Whether you join a fraternity or not you'll be able to learn a lot and have a lot of fun wherever you go.

FWIW I got that you were not necessarily meaning what you said the way it sounded.

Thanks, all I wanted to know

Nobody here can tell you what chapter will or won't give you a bid, but you can get an idea by doing some research. When you go to the websites and look at the photos, are there any non-white dudes?

That wouldn't apply here since the OP claims he's Caucasian. The OP should search the forum for threads relating to international students rushing/joining IFC Fraternities.

I don't know how I missed that completely. When you said he was a white Latino, I thought you were speculating and inferring from his posts.

Doh!

***
I'm glad the OP realizes that he was (not just sounded) ignorant and is now owning up to and challenging his ignorance. I know that people have a difficult time expressing themselves and their words (in real life and Internet) can be misinterpreted. But, I also firmly believe that people often say exactly what they mean the first time they say it. It is only after others' responses that they might regret what they said, considering the tone and meaning. People like to think of themselves as progressive, polite, and whatever else. They may regret that they expressed their prejudices and a particular tone and meaning but that doesn't mean that it isn't exactly what they meant the first time. Such is life.

In this case, I did mean what I said the first time, however, I wrongly gave a slightly racist aura to it, which was not at all my intention. So yes, after seeing the others responses, I saw the stupidity in parts of my posts. But other parts were just expressed incorrectly.

As for not being able to give me information on houses because you do not know where I will be studying, chances are, I will be going to the University of Michigan to study if it is any help. I have looked at a few of the pictures from the fraternities like another poster said, but I still could not find out how each fraternity's members would be in person, or their views.

You'll be fine at Michigan, provided you aren't a generally unlikeable person. Rush at Michigan isn't competitive and people are very accepting.

I know this is a bit late to the debate. And the OP seems to now have his questions answered. I am just wondering if perhaps there was a misunderstanding over the term 'Latino'. Someone described as Latino in the US would mean something to Americans, but since the OP is actually from Latin America perhaps he thought joining a 'Latino Fraternity' meant joining a fraternity started and for (international) Latin American students. That may just sound like a National Society club to the OP, i.e. The Peruvian Students Association. Which is why he may have specifically said "American" fraternity experience.

From my experience, I think America is quite unique in ethnic minorities saying they are "Ethnic Group-American". In the UK people would say they are English, Irish, Welsh or Scottish rather than say they are British. And in Asia, I have heard people say they describe themselves as Chinese or Indian (meaning their race) rather than their nationality. People didn't say I am Indian-Singaporean or Chinese-Singaporean, etc.
I may never have been to the OP's country of origin (forgive me if he mentioned it and I missed it), but that may very well be the case there.

(to the OP, please don't take this comment as if I am insulting your intelligence in not knowing the difference in terminology, I am genuinely interested in knowing the extent of the (mis)understanding)

This is purely a question of interest. I have noticed international students asking questions about rush, and saying they are international students when they are actually international exchange students (on a semester-abroad). Which would be quite different from an international student who was going to be at their American university for 3-4 years.

[bold text: edited to improve wording]

Why is it so hard to believe that the OP, someone born and raised in Latin America, would not want to be part of a latino fraternity?

LGLOs have very little to do with the actual customs and cultures of Latin countries and more with imitating the traditions and customs of NPHC organizations and Black culture in general. Often times their members don't even know Spanish. Someone coming from Latin America wouldn't understand it and would not feel comfortable in such an organization.

I am not trying to belittle the history of these organizations but let's be honest here.

If latino fraternities were really all about their culture they would be sending their members to do service in less fortunate Latin countries, donating money to charitable Hispanic organizations, teaching English to inner-city Hispanic children, things of that nature. Not using their time to step and stroll in the student union.

Before you try to rip me a new one and label me racist, I'm Hispanic.

I don't think anyone found it unbelievable. It was him referring to non-IFC fraternities as un-American that upset people.

Nobody in the thread mentioned having a problem with his desire to be a part of a mainstream fraternity. They were just clearing up a few misconceptions evident in the way he expressed himself. Everyone has a preference in the type of org they seek and it should be respected.

Your post on the other hand, is filled with ignorance and assumptions. Yes, LGLO have borrowed traditions from NPHC orgs; that's a fact. I'm not sure how you jump to the conclusion that they have "very little to do with Latino culture and only seek to emulate NPHC and Black culture in general." The statement alone shows a lack of knowledge on what the organizations do on campuses across the nation.

Are there members who don't speak Spanish? Yes...and? This doesn't mean that they can't relate at all to Latin Americans. I have MANY brothers who were born and raised in Latin America. You can find people that would love this and experience and others who would not.

As one of my older bros who pledged in the 50s said: "We essentially, have a mission; to serve Latin America. However, today the United States is part of that mission." http://bit.ly/hmvDGx ...There are Latin Americans and Latinos who agree with this concept across most/all LGLO. I based that assertion on programs and community efforts we all engage in.

Speaking on my org alone; we DO have brothers/chapters that engage in service work in Latin America, donate to charitable Latino AND non-Latino organizations, teach English to recent immigrants, etc. I've never came across a LGLO that does not engage in some type of endeavor within the Latino community. Many of our orgs(not mine) do step/stroll and embrace the practice as a way to honor their African heritage. I hope your not dismissing the fact that the majority of enslaved Africans went South of the United States. Yes, it is an NPHC tradition, but again this is where LGLO have borrowed from established traditions. An organization can step/stroll and serve the community at the same time.

Belittling our organizations is exactly what you attempted to do with that post. Identifying as Latino doesn't get you a pass. Wrong is wrong regardless of who says it.

Read before you post.

Because IFC fraternities are overflowing with Central/South American culture? We all know that the litmus test for respecting cultures is speaking the language. That's why all African-Americans speak African.

Fail.

Are you in an LGLO?

Oh, OK. Disregard my previous posts. This makes it OK. Also -- some of my best friends are black.

????
 

This is not the issue. Read and get a context.

Wrong! First, you are falling in the trap of imposing uniformity to all Latin American cultures. Second, the Caribbean culture (Cuba, Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico) is mainly African culture mixed with Spanish, so many BGLO traditions are also LGLOs, just for the common heritage (which is common also with Central American and Northern South American countries), not to speak of the many similarities between Latin American indigenous cultures and African culture, that makes stepping and strolling (just to mention a couple) as latino as they are black. So, I would find the opposite rare, that a Latin American doesn't relate to LGLO's. BTW, Latin American immigrants and their descendants many times feel more proudly about their heritage that many Latin American living in their country of origin; they feel pride even without speaking Spanish.

So, a SOCIAL fraternity should only do service and ignore everything that is SOCIAL. Is that what you are saying? Mine and many, if not all, LGLO's do that kind of service you talk about, but they also have a social aspect, be that stepping, strolling, saluting, dancing salsa, or whatever. Your comments clearly identify you as non-LGLO, since you are speaking mainly about stereotypes.

OMG. You owe me one new keyboard.

And one new monitor. My company will be sending you an invoice.

So wait, what was the point of all this?

We have a new billing contact: Kissmaass Enterprises

We'll cut a check as soon as possible.

Silencing the angry minorities :(

This is strange. That is all.

Ugh. Why don't they just STFU, amirite? It's not like they're American or anything.

I always thought I'd be able to get by with my black card. Time to prep for the green one.

Happy minorities > Angry minorities

The world thanks JohnnyCash for walking the line and silencing those angry minority GCers.

I can get you into some ESL classes, if you like.

http://pw0nd.com/wp-content/uploads/...e-i-see-it.jpg

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...TVTdXV2u0s4Eqw
Take dat, angry minorities!!!!

You'll have to catch me between step shows.

Will there be fliers? Maybe an evite?

Of course.

It'll be in African, though. And contrary to what Lindsay Lohan says, we don't speak Swedish.

/kalteenbars

Lucky for me some of my best friends speak African.

African
 

Hey, I'm good with languages. Is there an African language school close by? I live in Puerto Rico.

This thread.
http://i.imgur.com/X4Skz.gif

Yes, I'd say you are definitely Hispanic. Maybe one day you will learn enough to become Latino.

*Oh Snap Gif*

Thank You for informing him!! ;)

:o I love that ^^

In all seriousness - what is the difference between the two? I've never understood if it's just preference, if it's a geographical issue, or what. We don't have a huge population of {whatever I should say} in these parts.

I'm a non-Latina Black person so someone please inform me if I'm wrong. :)

One difference that I was taught has to do with the origins of the different terms and the issue of self-identification. Based on that origin, it makes sense that Hispanic is used as a technical term (such as in research and studies of demographics like the Census) but many people who are historically and culturally conscious will self-identify as Latina/o rather than Hispanic--even if they sometimes say Hispanic to appease others who are more familiar with "Hispanic" than "Latina/o."

Slate also explains how some see this: http://www.slate.com/id/2219165/