Originally Posted by agzg (Post 2042349)

Exsqueeze me? Are you trying to put me back in the red tent?!

RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE

Originally Posted by AnotherKD (Post 2042346)

Right?? I was just going to comment on that. You're at least 38, and your girlfriend is an active?

:confused:

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby (Post 2042361)

To be fair, it's now his EX-girlfriend.

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog (Post 2042368)

Since when are we fair around here?

Originally Posted by AnotherKD (Post 2042369)

Hey, we need to be accurate! Wouldn't want to paint this guy as a weirdo.

Oh, wait.

Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 2042386)

Yeah, I didn't really mean to call him out for dating a youngun -

Originally Posted by Drolefille (Post 2042402)

You did call him really gross...

Originally Posted by dnall (Post 2042204)

First the girl in question is still an active. (Far as the personal life goes... we didn't know each others ages till it was on, and then decided to take a chance. I've heard this shit from my friends and hers. It hurts and I'm tired of it. We recently broke up after a year and a half together over this issue, which still hurts. So, now that your curiosity is satisfied, I really do not want to talk about it. I appreciate your consideration.)

This is a thread about fraternity pledgeship, so is my damn lane.

Yes I'm going off what she told me, which may not be the entire story, but is pretty close. I'm repeating her story only. I'm not saying anything about any other sorority on her campus and certainly not everywhere else. I know for a fact other sororities on her campus made their girls know a lot of information. That's not the point.

I was trying to explain through a real world example that a joke of a NM program makes for a bad org, less than stellar members, weak brotherhood, and a poor greek experience. VERSUS a legit program.

This is one of those areas where things need to be very different for girls and guys. What it takes to teach and gain absolute devotion from a guy in a short period of time is very different from a girl. If I were an expert at methods to achieve that with girls, then my life would be a bit more entertaining than it is now. But, I am pretty damn good at getting those results from guys through military, fraternity, and business experiences.

When I pledged, which was well back in the day, I knew for sure I was getting hazed. I hung out with my soon to be pledge brothers the night before we took our bids & we made a pact that if we had to do certain things to a pizza & eat it or goats or any crap like that, that we'd all walk together, but otherwise we'd stay strong together to get through anything that comes.

Most of what we experienced was productive, some was not. Some was funny, some was moronic. A lot of it was fun to laugh about later. When pledge brothers wanted to quit, we had a conversation with them about hanging in so they could vote to help us change it. It took another year and getting busted for hazing, but we did change it to a great program that I was really proud to be part of creating. Most people would have said it was harder to do the new program than hazing, but it was legal & very productive.

Anyway, advice for the bf of the OP is don't stress about it. Focus on finding the right place to be & everything else will take care of itself.

Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 2042386)

As far as the young lady in question's pledge program - you get out of it what you put into it. If she didn't make an effort to get to know her pledge sisters and the rest of the sorority beyond what you described, didn't attend any events beyond what was required, didn't in effect GET HER MONEY'S WORTH, I'm sorry, but that's her own damn fault. Yes, a lot of these nationally mandated programs suck ass in some areas, but there's nothing the chapter can do about it. When you have 29 pledges who are busting their butts to get to know sisters, to get to know the rest of the Greek community, to attend all the events they can, and doing it without you twisting their arms, why on earth would you bother to twist the arm of #30 who does the bare minimum? If she felt her experience so subpar, she should not have initiated.

Originally Posted by dnall (Post 2042726)

I'm going to refuse to comment on the personal stuff, and you should all be ashamed of yourselves.

Originally Posted by dnall (Post 2042726)

It's like 200 in her chapter, pledge class I think close to 60. They had Wed night pledge class socials that she had late class and an 8am so didn't go to about half of those, but did try very very hard to get to know her pledge sisters. She was a couple years older then them, having transferred, and had trouble relating to a bunch of snooty 18yo girls versus some of the older actives (maybe that sounds ironic given the above info, or maybe it doesn't I don't know).

I get that her new member educator epically sucked by that chapter's standards, and that the chapter in question is weak in that area compared to presumably every other sorority on campus. But that's how it worked out. Now she's back & forth between wanting to drop and loving it.

Originally Posted by dnall (Post 2042726)

I don't know. I don't care anymore. None of this was the point. Only that a shitty pledge program makes for a horrible greek experience.

Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 2042733)

Say your Greek experience is horrible because the shirt you got on bid day didn't fit, or the cheesecake you got at pref didn't have a strawberry on it and everyone else's did.

Originally Posted by dnall (Post 2042726)

I'm a couple years younger than that (I may have rounded up a couple years elsewhere) & she's a couple years older than you're giving her credit for, but you should still be ashamed of yourselves. I wouldn't come on here smacking someone else around over a fresh break up. That's just evil. Especially since it wasn't caused for a lack of love, friendship, or ability to relate, but because of people like yall giving each of us constant shit. If this was an interracial relationship between people of the same age you'd call people giving them crap bad people, but you try to insert yourself into our relationship without even knowing either one of us or how we felt about each other. That's fucked up. I don't care what you think it looks like on the surface. You don't think it bothered us when we figured out the age difference? It did, but love is bigger than that bullshit, or at least I thought it was. But that's it. I'm not commenting on it further, and if you want to keep talking about it then you're fucked up people.

Originally Posted by DrPhil (Post 2042800)

What the shit are you all typing about?

Originally Posted by preciousjeni (Post 2042816)

Me? Or did someone delete a post?

Originally Posted by dnall (Post 2042726)

I'm a couple years younger than that (I may have rounded up a couple years elsewhere) & she's a couple years older than you're giving her credit for, but you should still be ashamed of yourselves. I wouldn't come on here smacking someone else around over a fresh break up. That's just evil. Especially since it wasn't caused for a lack of love, friendship, or ability to relate, but because of people like yall giving each of us constant shit. If this was an interracial relationship between people of the same age you'd call people giving them crap bad people, but you try to insert yourself into our relationship without even knowing either one of us or how we felt about each other. That's fucked up. I don't care what you think it looks like on the surface. You don't think it bothered us when we figured out the age difference? It did, but love is bigger than that bullshit, or at least I thought it was. But that's it. I'm not commenting on it further, and if you want to keep talking about it then you're fucked up people.


It's like 200 in her chapter, pledge class I think close to 60. They had Wed night pledge class socials that she had late class and an 8am so didn't go to about half of those, but did try very very hard to get to know her pledge sisters. She was a couple years older then them, having transferred, and had trouble relating to a bunch of snooty 18yo girls versus some of the older actives (maybe that sounds ironic given the above info, or maybe it doesn't I don't know).

I get that her new member educator epically sucked by that chapter's standards, and that the chapter in question is weak in that area compared to presumably every other sorority on campus. But that's how it worked out. Now she's back & forth between wanting to drop and loving it.

I don't know. I don't care anymore. None of this was the point. Only that a shitty pledge program makes for a horrible greek experience. For guys at least it needs to be hard. Some chapters achieve that through hazing. Others use a range of different methods very far away from being showered with gifts. Whatever it is going to be for this guy, it's no joke & he needs to be prepared with some serious backbone to face whatever that challenge might be. That's something that actives will be looking for in the rush process, and excessive questions about hazing MAY put that in question. It would for me.

Originally Posted by LadyLonghorn (Post 2042843)

You're blaming everyone else for your breakup? Of course. You and your ex were just like some kind of modern Capulet and Montegue. Those big meanies outside your relationships dis-troyed yew! Or maybe she just was done having some old dude gossiping on the internet about the chapters at her school.

Originally Posted by preciousjeni (Post 2042755)

As someone in an interracial age gap (more than 15 years) marriage, let me be the first to tell you that anything that happened between you and your lovely is completely on y'all. Nothing anyone outside of the relationship says has any bearing, whatsoever, on the success of the relationship.

You didn't end the relationship because of "constant shit." You ended it, because it wasn't a good relationship.

Originally Posted by dnall (Post 2042942)

I like the SEC in terms of history & also a lot of fraternity chapters but that's not restricted to SEC, not so much sororities, which are large also.

Honestly 70-115ish is solid for any greek org. You have enough money to operate at a high level, but you also have few enough people to be close to them & avoid too much cliqueiness as long as you really stay on top of it.

Disclaimer: Seriously, no offense to chapters bigger or smaller than that, I'm just stating an opinion.

Disclaimer2: why are disclaimers necessary?


Of course there's more to it then that. I'm far from imperfect, but she had some issues about the age thing beyond just the age thing between us & beyond the constant shit from outside, that compounded with some family stressors to put it beyond dealing with anymore. It's a painful situation for both of us, and ultimately about a huge laundry list of things, the vast majority of which were less about our direct one-on-one relationship than... well just other outside things.

In any case, I appreciate the understanding. I'm quite confident though that GC is not the place to go for therapy.

Originally Posted by dnall (Post 2027910)

I don't know how many "pacific" chapters you've visited of any fraternity, but they are just not the same. Greek life in a lot of places in those regions is not strong. Many of those chapters don't care much about the ritual. I would prefer not to expand strongly in those directions. Not when there is so much other fertile territory elsewhere. Especially in places we've had chapters before.

Originally Posted by dnall (Post 2029697)

Greek life in the west sucks. It's a different thing completely. Unless you've spent some time around it in the south or on the east cost and to a lesser extent some places in the central US, you really don't understand what I'm saying.

In any case, this is an ATO asking about expansion in a geographic area where most locations are very weak. Nationals will try to keep things geographically balanced to some degree, but ultimately it's a business. You want big strong stable chapters with higher percentages of alumni that stay involved, preferably from schools where they have a better chance at doing well in life.

Why would I support going to a school with flat to declining recruiting numbers that support average chapters of 30 guys? Especially when I can go a dozen other places that will jump quickly to 70-90 guys and have strong regional alumni support.

Originally Posted by VandalSquirrel (Post 2042945)

You can have your opinions, we all do, but what you believe is right and proper is unrealistic for many schools, let alone other fraternities, sororities, and beyond that groups that aren't historically and predominantly white and Christian.

It is hard not to take offense when you have posts like these:

http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...10#post2027910



http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...97#post2029697



There is also your post about groups shutting down or reinventing, which is also insulting. There are ways to express an opinion to get people to engage in a constructive dialog, which I find difficult to do when I read your posts. Why discuss something with someone who has a narrow focus and idea and can't or won't see the ideas and opinions of others without belittling or insulting people in the process?

Originally Posted by dnall (Post 2042715)

I would say their founding was short sighted. They have lost their purpose & therefore should dissolve or remake themselves with a new change the world purpose. Otherwise it's sitting in a car that's out of gas blasting the radio and pressing on the pedals thinking you're getting to your destination. I'd rather see them out of the way so those members will go to orgs that do actively have a serious change the world mission to accomplish.

Originally Posted by Regina.George (Post 2042950)

My favorite was this one, in speaking about all GLOS that are not historically white:



Now that we let 'those folks' in, those other shortsighted organizations have no purpose.

Originally Posted by dnall (Post 2042942)

In any case, I appreciate the understanding. I'm quite confident though that GC is not the place to go for therapy.

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog (Post 2042976)

Au Contraire, Mon Frère. That's exactly what we do here.:cool:

Originally Posted by VandalSquirrel (Post 2042979)

I doubt they'd cover any medical issue arising from meat in a sink or GC after dark, how would that be coded? We better hope Planned Parenthood stays open and funded if people with meaty sinks are blowing up twatter.

Originally Posted by knight_shadow (Post 2042981)

I think those are covered by STD/Short-term Disability.

Originally Posted by dnall (Post 2042942)

Honestly 70-115ish is solid for any greek org. You have enough money to operate at a high level, but you also have few enough people to be close to them & avoid too much cliqueiness as long as you really stay on top of it.

Disclaimer: Seriously, no offense to chapters bigger or smaller than that, I'm just stating an opinion.

Disclaimer2: why are disclaimers necessary?

Originally Posted by VandalSquirrel (Post 2042979)

Seriously, KSUViolet should gets hours towards a professional requirement in "a helping profession" for how nice she's been to some people in the recruitment forum. We already have our own GC DSM thread.

Is it therapeutic if sometimes coming to GC and reading certain posts or posters makes me feel more confident and grounded in how awesome my life and choices are? Should I ask if GC can receive some of my Health and Wellness insurance benefit?

I doubt they'd cover any medical issue arising from meat in a sink or GC after dark, how would that be coded? We better hope Planned Parenthood stays open and funded if people with meaty sinks are blowing up twatter.