Really? My experience has been the exact opposite (granted, I didn't attend, but from observations and from interactions with Aggie Greeks, it seems like it's very strong).

^^^^ That is what I said - it has gotten stronger over the years, but I still don't think it is that strong. NPC orgs did not get recognized by the University until ~1990 / 1991, even though NPC groups were 'there' since about the early 80's. Yes, there are some strong fraternities on campus. When I was there I remember some of the NIC/IFC groups - SAE, SX and SPE. But, there is still this mindset at A&M that the only "true" fraternity on campus is the Corps.

Yea, the Corps is still huge, but I was under the impression that the Greek system was strong period. Learn something new every day :)

This is not correct with regard to Harvard -- the sororities are not allowed to use any college facilities to hold rush, meetings, etc. In fact they are not even allowed to put posters up on university bulletin boards to advertise their events. They have all their events either in rented public spaces like restaurants or space in the all-male final clubs (also unrecognized), which have private houses around the campus.

Sometimes a sorority event will happen on campus because a member reserved the space in her own name or the name of a philanthropy project. So it can happen, but it's against the rules.

At Yale, the sororities have their own off-campus meeting spaces (a house or an apartment). Several fraternities do as well. People party there, but it is not seen as a big deal on campus, and no one is impressed because you're an XYZ. The singing group recruitment process, called "Rush," is way more visible and prestigious around campus than the Greek rush.

We've discussed Princeton's Greek life heavily in past threads. Suffice it to say that the administration is hostile, and the eating clubs are way more important to college life than GLOs. 75%+ of Princeton students join an eating club, and many of the non-members still socialize there.

At all these schools, there are more interested women than the chapters can accommodate, but there's also a very strong anti-Greek sentiment among the student body. Sorority membership is sometimes confessed to with embarrassment. Yale and Harvard have residential colleges/houses with strong identity and loyalty that serve the students' social and residential needs. Yale's secret societies and Harvard's final clubs, which involve less than 10% of the eligible students, still retain some old-money cachet.

At all of HYP, it is almost unthinkable to be involved in a GLO and classes and nothing else. Students are near-universally involved in some deep, serious extracurricular commitment, and the GLO is their second, third, or fourth-ranked activity. You would invite ridicule if you said you had to miss a newspaper editorial meeting/play rehearsal/political activity/sports practice for a GLO commitment. You would not advance to the leadership of your organization if you did that...and at HYP, that's an extremely big deal on campus and for your future. Being the president of an ethnic organization, dramatic group, or political/debate group is way more prestigious than being president of Theta. The Editor-in-Chief of the school newspaper will generally go directly to the New York Times, etc.

NPHC groups are not very visible on any of these campuses; city-wide chapters are the rule.

It may be surprising at colleges so elite and so selective, but there's a strong egalitarian vibe to the social scene at Harvard and Yale. The dominant ethos holds that everybody's a nerd of some flavor or another, so we should put the competition down when it comes to our social lives. Social exclusion/ranking is seen as very high school. It's also true that at HYP, as with pretty much every campus I've ever seen, you can tell the NPC groups apart by their members' hotness, even if you've been away from campus for four years. That alone is enough reason for the majority of female students to refuse to even consider joining. They think, I made it all the way to Harvard/Yale, just to be judged on my looks? No, thanks.
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I stand corrected; I was given the information by an alum of the Delta Gamma chapter there in passing, and I might have interpreted or extrapolated incorrectly.

It's really interesting to hear about the sentiment towards GLOs at the Ivy Trinity. I would have figured it would be slightly more prominent. I suppose the "prestige" that comes with being in some of the more selective clubs (finals, secret societies, etc.) far outweighs the appeal of a GLO.

All over the country, many public colleges and universities are land-grant institutions. Being a land grant institution is a legal status; it means the the institution was established pursuant to the Morrill Land-Grant Acts, under which a state was given federal land on the condition that the proceeds of the sale of that land be used to establish institutions that provided an education particularly in agricultural and "mechanical" studies. After the Civil War, a second Land-Grant Act (which granted cash instead of land) was aimed at insuring that former Confederate states would either not discriminate on the basis of race in land-grant institutions or would establish seperate land-grant institutions based on race.

Are all the state schools in Texas land-grant colleges?

:)

This is the best thread ever.

:( I like my school. And we don't think you are annoying anymore (at least us current students with no games anymore to give us a rivalry)
We dislike Ohio State :D

Buttttttt all things aside if I was on the outside looking in... I could see how people would think our alumni are annoying. I've heard it referred to as "cult-like" lol

Penn State Alums have a TON of pride for their/our school. We're very proud of it, our football team & our personal experiences here.
WE ARE... PENN STATE! :)

Yeah, when I toured Harvard, they told us that there were no sororities on campus. We later took an "unofficial tour," and the guide (a Theta) explained that the groups weren't recognized by the university and weren't allowed to use any campus spaces for events. (And our tour guide seemed very weirded out that my mom was so involved in Theta.)

Interesting question - the University of Texas and Texas A&M system schools are funded in part by the Permanent University Fund, established in 1876. Other systems - Texas State, Texas Tech, U of Houston, U of North Texas and some A&M and UT system schools - are prohibited by law from being funded by it, and instead since 1984 have received funds from the much less endowed Higher Education Assistance Fund. Not that I'm bitter.

I know for certain that Texas A&M was established because of the 1862 Morrill act (land grant college). Prairie View A & M is the historically black college established in 1876 as a land grant college. I don't think any of the others are land grant colleges.

I haven't heard of any Texas schools besides A+M and PV being land grant.

And iGiggled at the bolded. Now to go back to the "Texans for Tier One" site :p

The funding sources wouldn't preclude being land-grant institution, I don't think. Land-grant has to do with the establishment of the school.

FWIW, here is the Wiki's list, by state, of land-grant institutions. The list says that the two land-grant schools in Texas are Texas A&M and Prairie View A&M.

Yeah, it's a lot better to be judged on how much money your family has for which final club you can get into. That's so much more egalitarian.

I just think that any selective college whose students put down the Greek system (or the final club system, for that matter) because it's "snobby" really needs to rethink their admission standards if the students don't see the ridiculous irony in that attitude.

If I'd gotten into Harvard I wouldn't have any student loans. They actually have some impressive financial aid at the Ivys these days.

Which statement are you responding to? :confused:

Both Penn State and Michigan State are land-grant institutions. That is why we play the "Land-Grant Bowl" against each other, every year.

Your comment about being judged based on how much money one has. The only place I saw that comment coming from was that it was about Harvard and Yale. I didn't get where else you were getting the $$ thing from.

If you had to use scholarship money, you most likely would not be in a final club. Although you probably could join a sorority with no problem. Hence my point.

Ah ok, I didn't catch the final club thing. My bad.

If it's only 10% of the school (and the "old money contingent at that") I think they'd be pretty easy to ignore if you didn't care about them :p

Amazing how it seems like Theta has a presence at the schools that have about 3 sororities- honestly, it makes them seem stronger in my eyes, though I don't know how on point that is. But to me, it's impressive that they are at the "top 3" schools, plus many others on that list, and not many other sororities are.

Coming from a school that had a lot of sororities but about 60 people in each sorority (large, public school), I can't fathom 75% of the student body in any school being affiliated with something like the Greek System or eating clubs. I know that it's different at different schools, as I can't imagine being in a sorority with 200 undergrad members either, but seeing as there are only so many eating clubs at Princeton, for example, and so many people join them... I'm not sure it would hold as special of a place in my heart, knowing that I was a part of something that a select group of others was a part of. (Not that I am thinking "I'm a so-and-so, na-na na-na boo boo.") Wouldn't it just seem like a given to be a member of an eating club, and not that big of a deal that you were there with hundreds of others? Especially since people who weren't involved in the eating clubs would be there and be able to join in everything as well?

Michigan State and Penn State (in that order) were the first two land-grant colleges.

ETA: To keep the record clear, they were both established prior to the Morrill Act. Michigan State was considered a model for the how the Morrill Act would work.

I wonder how much of the lack of prestige that historically white GLOs have at the Ivies is based on the fact that, except Cornell, the schools are older than most fraternities and sororities. That wouldn't quite explain the relative popularity of Greek Life at Dartmouth and Penn, but would explain the fact that at the other five (and even at equally old places like W&M and Rutgers, where Greek life is there but not strong), campus life was built up without them for the most part and they didn't get a strong toehold in campus life. Most of the "big" Greek schools were founded much later than the Ivies, and perhaps more professors and parents were Greek, and encouraged Greek life more.

It could also be that for the most part, the "good" schools are located in either large cities (NYC, DC, Atlanta) where there's a lot of other things to do.

As I've mentioned before, I wrote my senior thesis on the postwar architectural programme at Brown. Part of that programme was to construct a Greek quad, and I devoted a chapter to the things that the college did to control the Greeks (even immediately after WWII, it made Animal House look like an episode of Sesame Street). Greek Life wasn't even that strong then.

I've been pretty busy, but I do want to discuss Greek Life at Brown and Columbia. I promise. :)

For Alpha Phi Omega (Community Service co-ed)

Harvard - Never
Princeton -Inactive
Yale - Inactive (within last year)
Cal Tech - Never
MIT -Active (First chapter in New England)
Stanford - Active (First chapter on the West Coast)
U Penn - Active
Colombia - Inactive
Chicago - Active
Duke - Active
Dartmouth -Never
Northwestern - Colony
Wash U - Active
Johns Hopkins - Active
Cornell - Active
Brown - Inactive
Emory - Active
Rice - Inactive
Vanderbilt - Active
Notre Dame - Inactive
Berkeley - Active
Carnegie Mellon - Active (my alma mater!)
Georgetown - Active
UCLA - Active
UVA - Active

15 Active
1 Colony (APO calls them Petitioning Groups)
6 Inactive
3 Never

The existence of Alpha Phi Omega definitely doesn't indicate one way or another whether there is an active Social Greek system though. :)

ITYM Columbia

For that matter, there is no Greek system at Caltech. They used to have frats way back in the 30's or something, but they no longer have them (at least not as recognized organizations). I would imagine no one has time to participate in one anyways ;)

Thanks for the explanation!!! I've heard it before, but I never remember the exact details.

I don't think all state schools in Texas are land grant. One school that comes to mind is Sam Houston State. It started out as a Teacher's College. And, Texas Southern U. It started out as Houston College for Negroes.

But, to keep track on the thread, I know that both schools have really great greek systems!!

You'd be surprised. RPI is one of the best tech schools in the country, and Greek Life is huge there. Location might have a lot ot do with it though. I know the NYU Greek life is very weak because a lot of students don't see the need for it with all that is available in the area.

See my post above. I checked and there are two land-grant schools in Texas: Texas A&M and Prairie View A&M. ;)

Yeah....I replied to your first one before I saw your other one....:o

I'm at MIT, and Greek life is huge here as well. I'm sure it's just a matter of the demographic and foci of the students. I definitely know that at Caltech, there is an amazing focus on research and academics. Not that they're all bookworms, but the students seem to believe that the main purpose of college is purely academics, and they are all very devoted to their studies. Pasadena isn't exactly the best college town with tons to do, but I would figure that Caltech students have enough on their plate without having to deal with pledging.

At MIT, Greek life isn't so much about the "party" aspect as it is about having a support group. The brothers and sisters in our GLOs are the people we go to for stress relief, for help with classes, for career guidance. In all universities, there are vastly difference reasons for the existence and purposes that Greek life plays, whether it's mainly social or mainly academic.

That's exactly right. And it's less than 10% of the school -- it's around 10% of the eligible students (they are upperclassman-only at both Harvard and Yale). The Yale ones don't have social events at all; they are solely for members. At Harvard, the old-money ones operate the same way: a drinking club for members, closed doors, no guests. The ones that have parties with guests are basically just local frats and not so hard to get into. They are strongly associated with certain sports teams, just like frats at most campuses.

Re: the silliness of a selective, elite institution believing in an egalitarian social scene: a lot of people think that competition belongs in some arenas and not in others. Anyone who applies to HYP is inherently agreeing to be judged on academic achievement, extracurricular involvement, and diverse life experience. It doesn't mean that they want to be judged based on looks, popularity, social connections, and being the life of the party. Realistically, that's what GLO selection is about when you're selecting from the HYP student body: everyone is an excellent student, ambitious, talented, a leader, etc. Students compete to get into those schools; once there, they compete with one another to lead orchestras and publications and service groups; they compete to get into Yale Law and Hopkins Med; when it comes time to socialize, they want to chill out for a change and not worry about who's who.

Re: the fact that Theta is at all 3 of HYP: I know we don't like to talk about tiers here, but it's the "hot," socially elite group at all 3, too, and has chapters at all the other Ivies except Dartmouth, where its chapter went local.

The embarrassment about sorority membership that you find at HYP, and sometimes at Brown/Columbia, is nonexistent at Dartmouth and Cornell. Penn is in the middle; sororities are pretty cool for freshman women and totally uncool for seniors.

Re: tech schools: Caltech groups students into houses where you live/eat/party together, like Harvard, Yale, and Rice do. Schools that do this typically have much lower interest in Greek life. MIT does not, which explains the thriving Greek life there vs. none at Caltech.
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I'm sure there are definitely areas of some of our dorms that could contest that ;) For example, certain halls in our East Campus dorm are so close that they're practically a frat. In fact, the 2nd West hall even calls themselves "Pi Tau Zeta" (a Greekification of their nickname, Putz). It certainly is true, however, that most GLO members at MIT come from the west side of campus, where dorms are much bigger and less bonded as a group.

re: Theta, it's also seen as one of the "top tier" sororities at MIT as well, interestingly.

Thank you! I am used to typing the name of the country when I play Sporcle lol

Fun fact: Iowa was the first state to accept the Morrill act and Iowa State is considered the "first" land-grant institution as designated by the Morrill act. There's even a building on campus named after Morrill - Morrill Hall.

[/hijack]

Sigma Chi Fraternity

Harvard - Kappa Eta (1992)
Princeton - Sigma (1869)
Yale - Theta Upsilon (1986)
Cal Tech - No Greek Life
MIT - Alpha Theta (1882)
Stanford - Alpha Omega (1891)
Penn - Phi Phi (1875)
Columbia - Nu Nu (1894)
Chicago - Omicron Omicron (1897)
Duke - Beta Lambda (1912)
Dartmouth - Eta Eta (1892-1960) inactive
Northwestern - Omega (1869)
Washington U. - Tau Tau (1903)
Johns Hopkins - Kappa Upsilon (2005)
Cornell - Alpha Phi (1890)
Brown - Beta Nu (1914)
Emory - Beta Chi (1921)
Rice - No Greek Life
Vanderbilt - Alpha Psi (1891)
Notre Dame - No Greek Life
California - Berkeley - Alpha Beta (1886)
Carnegie Mellon - Colonizing Fall of 2010
Georgetown - no Sig chapter/never colonized
UCLA - Delta Eta (1947)
Virginia - Psi (1860)

19 Active chapters
1 Colonizing Fall of 2010
1 Inactive chapter
1 No Sig Chapter/never colonized
3 No Greek Life

That's definitely true - every dorm has its own personality, and often floors/entries/halls within a dorm will have different personalities.

Back in my day, we had dorm rush. You got a temporary room and then you went and visited all the dorms, met upperclass residents, took dorm tours, etc., then ranked the dorms in order of preference and got matched. Once you got matched, in most cases you then went through floor/entry/hall rush. (I believe freshmen now have to rank order their dorm choices before arriving on campus, but they still go through floor rush - Miriverite, correct me if I'm wrong.)

What made this all the more fun was that, in my day, dorm rush happened at the same time as FSILG rush. If you were a man checking out fraternities and/or ILGs, or a woman interested in ILGs, you really had to budget your time to make sure you checked out the dorms just in case you didn't get a bid you wanted to accept. If you were a woman interested only in NPC sororities, you had enough time outside scheduled rush parties to check out the dorms, and of course, if you weren't interested in greek life at all, you had lots of time.

And I don't think you can really have a meaningful discussion about tiers when there are only six sororities, one of which fills a niche market. :)

Alpha Omicron Pi:

Stanford - Lambda chapter - AOII's 14th chapter founded 1910, closed in 1944 when Greek life was abolished

Penn - Psi chapter - AOII's 24th chapter, 1918-1958

Columbia - never had a chapter there, but our founding chapter, Alpha, was at Barnard College of Columbia University from 1897 until Greek life was abolished - in 1914.

Chicago - Phi Chi chapter founded 1986. First NPC at Chicago

Duke - Delta Upsilon chapter 1979-2008

Northwestern - Rho chapter - AOII's 13th chapter. 1909-1973. Northwestern's archives state that AOII was viewed as a "liberal" sorority on campus which made them unpopular at times.

Washington - Delta Kappa chapter founded 2009

Cornell - Epsilon. AOII's 12th chapter. 1908-1962/1989-2008. Plans to recolonize in 2 years.

Brown - Beta 1908-1908. AOII's 9th chapter. Beta was never actually an active chapter. It was chartered when AOII absorbed Alpha Delta Sigma, which had chapters at Brown, Maine, and Tufts (then Jackson College). Brown banned Greek life before the chapter could function as AOII rather than Alpha Delta Sigma.

Vanderbilt - Nu Omicron founded 1917, AOII's 23rd chapter

California (Berkeley) - Sigma chapter founded 1908 as AOII's 7th chapter. It was the first AOII chapter to have a sorority house, which was designed by a Cal architecture professor who married an AOII. The letters A O and II can be seen in different architectural features in the house.

UCLA - Kappa Theta chapter 1925-1973

UVA - Chi Beta chapter 1982-200?

Dartmouth and Cornell, the most Greek-friendly Ivies, have strong old locals that stand arm-in-arm with the national houses to a degree that I think is quite unusual. Both schools, especially Dartmouth, have a long and proud tradition of national Greek houses defying racial and religious restrictions as early as the mid-1950s, and of abandoning their national organization when it ordered them to depledge a diverse member. Some of these houses have since rejoined the nationals, and others remain local.
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That's not just Cornell and Dartmouth--Brown was very vocal (both students and administrators) in addressing the discriminatory clauses that several of the fraternities had. Many had shed them in the postwar era, but there were still a few.