Originally Posted by Senusret I (Post 1951629)

Need:

http://www.wnba.com/media/mystics/20...erStars_00.JPG

+

http://i41.tinypic.com/wwj2mb.jpg

Originally Posted by starang21 (Post 1951633)

unfortunately, i bet this is the only action that we'll see out of the feds. i think the AZ government did this to force the fed's hand.

Originally Posted by ASUADPi (Post 1951270)

Well if the federal government would do their JOB and PROTECT the borders, this law wouldn't have been made.

I respect people's opinions, but really until you've lived in AZ and are 1) constantly watching news reports about an illegal immigrant committing murder, 2) constantly hearing about illegal immigrant drop houses/drug busts, 3) constantly hearing about an illegal immigrant stealing someones identity (or have had your's stolen by an illegal immigrant), you CANNOT possibly understand WHY legal AZ residents are getting frustrated and looking to the government for solutions.

I truly believe that they made this law to make people PAY ATTENTION to what California, Arizona, Texas and New Mexico are dealing with when it comes to illegal immigration. It should not be these 4 states jobs to be fighting this epidemic (and that is what it is).

Our borders are federal and our federal government should be taking care of them.

This is strictly my opinion. I completely understand that others are going to feel differently. But instead of attacking, think about the people who deal with illegal immigration on a daily basis.

I now live in Fayetteville, NC. I have never heard the Raleigh news once mention illegal immigration. It probably isn't something that they deal with. I'm sure there are illegal immigrants in the state, but probably not to the extent as the 4 border states.

Originally Posted by PiKA2001 (Post 1951287)

It doesn't even come close. I grew up in MI and lived in AZ for awhile, even though Detroit has it's fair share of undocumented, it's just so much more prevalent and "in-your-face" in AZ.

In regards to ASUADPi, It kind of upsets me watching people getting bussed in from California or Oklahoma to protest in Phoenix. Thats awesome that they are that passionate about the issue but they aren't the ones dealing with it on a daily basis.

Originally Posted by knight_shadow (Post 1951742)

I hear about the issues all the time too, but pushing for pseudo-racial profiling will do more harm than good.

Originally Posted by Kevin (Post 1951750)

How's that? Here in Oklahoma, we've arrested some higher ups in Mexican cartels who recently fled Arizona because they were afraid of profiling. If the law's scaring off those maggots, then it must be doing something right.

Originally Posted by knight_shadow (Post 1951758)

Because it won't only affect illegal immigrants.

Sure, a citizen should be able to easily produce identification, but s/he shouldn't have to just because a cop thinks s/he has the look of an immigrant.

Originally Posted by Kevin (Post 1951765)

Depends on what that "look" is. Brown skin? No dice. Doesn't speak English? That's probable cause. Since race isn't supposed to be a factor here according to the law, either race won't be a factor or there'll be a boom in civil rights case filings and people will get paid.

Originally Posted by Kevin (Post 1951765)

Since race isn't supposed to be a factor here according to the law, either race won't be a factor or there'll be a boom in civil rights case filings and people will get paid.

Originally Posted by Kevin (Post 1951765)

Depends on what that "look" is. Brown skin? No dice. Doesn't speak English? That's probable cause. Since race isn't supposed to be a factor here according to the law, either race won't be a factor or there'll be a boom in civil rights case filings and people will get paid.

Originally Posted by knight_shadow (Post 1951773)

How do you tell an illegal immigrant from a citizen? Are they running around with scarlet sombreros attached to their shirts?

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito (Post 1951767)

How is that probable cause? I know plenty of citizens or perm residents with issues with the English language if they speak it at all.

Originally Posted by knight_shadow (Post 1951773)

How do you tell an illegal immigrant from a citizen? Are they running around with scarlet sombreros attached to their shirts?

Originally Posted by Kevin (Post 1951798)

Assuming before the fact that race is going to be the controlling factor in these arrests betrays your own preconceived notions about illegal immigration, not Arizona's.

Originally Posted by WaxOff (Post 1951804)

There are several problems with this law and in all honesty, I'm believing more and more that it was nothing more than a ploy to rally the conservatives against the liberals and force the federal Government to do something.

Plain and simple, this law runs the risk of penalizing citizens and legal residents. It's like cutting off your finger to not have to worry about breaking the fingernail. Or to quote President George W. Bush "If we let the loggers go in and cut down all the trees we wouldn’t have a problem with forest fires."

The law makes it mandatory for ALL citizens and legal residents to carry proof of citizenship on them at all times. AZ accepts driver's licenses because they demand that you provide proof of citizenship before you can get one. However, they do not accept licenses from all other states.

There is currently no Federal Law requiring citizens to carry proof of citizenship with them at all times, therefore Arizona is usurping Federal Law. In addition, failing to provide proof of citizenship is punishable by incarceration and a fine of upto $2500.00. This violates a multitude of civil rights laws, including unlawful detainment.

Originally Posted by WaxOff (Post 1951804)

The law makes it mandatory for ALL citizens and legal residents to carry proof of citizenship on them at all times. AZ accepts driver's licenses because they demand that you provide proof of citizenship before you can get one. However, they do not accept licenses from all other states.

Originally Posted by Animate (Post 1951811)

Wait, so if I'm understanding this correctly, if I, being from AL, visit AZ, and get pulled over they wouldn't accept my AL license?

Originally Posted by knight_shadow (Post 1951758)

Because it won't only affect illegal immigrants.

Sure, a citizen should be able to easily produce identification, but s/he shouldn't have to just because a cop thinks s/he has the look of an immigrant.

Originally Posted by Kevin (Post 1951798)

Not speaking English can be a factor leading up to that. Other factors could be manner of dress, lack of identification, forged identification, etc.

Originally Posted by Kevin (Post 1951798)

Assuming before the fact that race is going to be the controlling factor in these arrests betrays your own preconceived notions about illegal immigration, not Arizona's.

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito (Post 1951767)

How is that probable cause? I know plenty of citizens or perm residents with issues with the English language if they speak it at all.

Originally Posted by Animate (Post 1951811)

Wait, so if I'm understanding this correctly, if I, being from AL, visit AZ, and get pulled over they wouldn't accept my AL license?

Originally Posted by starang21 (Post 1951826)

they'll accept it. unless you can get a driver's license anywhere in this country as an illegal alien.

Originally Posted by knight_shadow (Post 1951742)

Uhh...California doesn't have issues with illegal immigration?

Originally Posted by AOII Angel (Post 1951625)

And you know good and well that is not what I am saying, but the rhetoric that is being used to support this law is ridiculous. This will not save the Arizona economy. It will not stop the drug cartels. It will not decrease illegal immigration at the borders. Pretending otherwise that it does anything other than waste Arizona tax payer money is stupid.

Originally Posted by starang21 (Post 1951819)

you don't think you're producing identification once you're stopped because of a moving violation?

Originally Posted by PiKA2001 (Post 1951859)

I'm talking about people from other states going to protest in AZ against 1070 then driving their fat happy asses home. AFAIK the majority of people of AZ still support this bill and they are the ones that will have to live with it, not you in Dallas or me in EP or some dude in NJ.

Originally Posted by knight_shadow (Post 1951868)

Where did I say that?

And the operative phrase here is "moving violation." I won't produce identification because I'm "too black."

Originally Posted by starang21 (Post 1951875)

have you read the hb2162?

Originally Posted by knight_shadow (Post 1951878)

How do you determine someone's status by means other than race?

Originally Posted by starang21 (Post 1951880)

lack of valid id, inability or unwillingness to communicate in english. whether or not they're in some sort of identification database.

you're not making a determination based on race. you're asking a question to the proper authorities in order to make an informed determination.

Originally Posted by Drolefille (Post 1951883)

No, you investigate based on a "reasonable suspicion" of illegal status. That's the questionable bit.

Originally Posted by knight_shadow (Post 1951868)

That's not what you said, though. You essentially said they can't support the bill because they don't see the effects of illegal immigration firsthand. I was just making a point that California does, indeed, see the effects of it.

Originally Posted by starang21 (Post 1951884)

so what i've listed couldn't fall under reasonable suspicion?

particularly the lack of valid id and inability or unwillingness to communicate in english?

in addition, they're not required to verify the status on all arrests.

"a reasonable attempt shall be made, when practicable"

Originally Posted by starang21 (Post 1951884)

so what i've listed couldn't fall under reasonable suspicion?

particularly the lack of valid id and inability or unwillingness to communicate in english?

in addition, they're not required to verify the status on all arrests.

"a reasonable attempt shall be made, when practicable"

Originally Posted by Drolefille (Post 1951894)

The concern is that it would lead to essentially racial profiling as well as a violation of US citizens rights NOT to have to prove citizenship.

Originally Posted by PiKA2001 (Post 1951896)

I've also encountered a lot of naturalized citizens that speak NO english.

Originally Posted by starang21 (Post 1951897)

i understand, but i think we're sensationalizing that point and not looking at logistics.

let's say you're a legal resident. you're committing a crime, you choose not to speak english, and you don't have valid id. so you can't prove your legal residency.

ok, so what?

you get detained. which would have happened since you were already in suspicion for another crime. while you're detained, they're checking your immigration status. they find out you're a legal resident. so what's the issue here? instead of turning your over to the federal government, they keep you because you were already (possibly) doing something illegal.