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- - Congressman Bob Etheridge Caught on Tape (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=114259)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticCat (Post 1944527)

Back during the 08 election, I said quite a few times here at GC that this was what baffled me about McCain's selection of Palin. Obama's lack of experience was one of the best arrows if not the best arrow in the McCain campaign's quiver. After selecting Palin, he couldn't use that arrow effectively anymore.

John McCain had zero chance of being elected. The people of the U.S. were tired of Bush in the WH and they were going to elect any member of the opposing party that won their respective nomination. McCain was probably the worst candidate the Republicans could put forth but in the end it really wouldn't have mattered.

We have effectively stated, as a nation, that qualifications do not matter. You just need to be clean, articulate and bright. Whatever the hell that means.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghostwriter (Post 1944536)

This isn't a new thing, you know. "The most inexperienced president ever" is part of that hyperbolic rhetoric thing we've been talking about.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?k...lcrHI0f3zAUzYg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drolefille (Post 1944534)

Do you think I would be wrong in saying that a lot of the opposition to Bush was over what he'd done, while perhaps an uneven proportion of the opposition to Obama is over who he is or what they think he will do? WMDs vs "taking our guns"?

I think there's always hysteria over what someone is going to do from the fringes one either side.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghostwriter (Post 1944536)

I used to refer to the selection of Palin as McCain's Hail Mary pass.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticCat (Post 1944542)

I think there's always hysteria over what someone is going to do from the fringes one either side.

I used to refer to the selection of Palin as McCain's Hail Mary pass.

While I agree, in general, I'm just trying to place what is different, because it does feel like there is something different. Perhaps it's as simple, and disappointing, as the whole birther crap. Once you have a group that pretty much says not only isn't he legally president, but he never could be, they have free reign to say anything about him... I don't know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drolefille (Post 1944544)

While I agree, in general, I'm just trying to place what is different, because it does feel like there is something different.

Ah, youth. :p

I grew up in the land of Jesse Helms -- I remember when he did editorials on the local news, before he got into politics. He was bringing out heaps of crazy from the far right and the far left long before Bush or Obama came along.

FWIW, I think the main thing that's different is the internet, which makes it much easier to dissiminate the crazy. Twenty-five years ago, people pretty much had to rely on print media, radio or word of mouth to get the crazy ideas out there. TV wasn't going to cover it too much. But now you can email the latest absurdity to all your contacts as a WARNING of SOMETHING WE CAN'T LET HAPPEN. There are websites upon websites chock-full of ABSOLUTELY TRUE inanities. The internet has no filter, and it makes it much easier to spread the crazy around.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticCat (Post 1944550)

Well and all the news stations are iReporting and letting you decide so they give the extremes validity.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drolefille (Post 1944534)

Many of the policies in the healthcare bill. The Jobs bill. Voting against the stimulus but writing letters to get money/projects for their districts.

It's why I like Scott Brown, he doesn't seem inclined to be as caught in the "say no, no matter what" game and instead is voting for what he and his constituents want and would benefit from.

I didn't say Palin gets what she deserves, I said I personally would make fun of the really really silly things she said. I had forgotton about the whole "it's not her kid" thing. But yeah that way crossed the line.

For me it's more, I know Obama didn't have a ton of experience. Being from Illinois I'd gotten to know him, and he convinced me he was capable. Palin never could do that, and I didn't like that she was the posterchild for female politicians either.

I don't disagree that it's been there on both sides and that it's gone back for quite a while the Swift Boat people personally offend me as there were people wearing purple heart bandaids. I have no love lost for John Kerry, but you're going to insult every wounded soldier just to make a political point?

I still can't find the graphic but essentially the claim was that within the first 1.5 years they'd debunked way more rumors/myths/etc from either Bush term. Which just makes me wonder whether it's because of this president or because of the internet, or because the opposition has encouraged and sometimes outright said the same things.

But then, I remember yelling at an anti-war protester that no matter what you think Bush is still your president. Do you think I would be wrong in saying that a lot of the opposition to Bush was over what he'd done, while perhaps an uneven proportion of the opposition to Obama is over who he is or what they think he will do? WMDs vs "taking our guns"?

I'm not a fan of ideological "purity." The idea that no democrat could support Bush or any other republican candidate or idea is as silly as saying no republican can support something Obama does or supports. (or support libertarian/green/or i don't know anarchist ideas) Same with "internal" criticism, I like Obama but I think he's screwed things up.

I agree though that we need to get away from the idea that everything we disagree with is destroying America in someway or another. Unfortunately I think it takes more than leading by example. I don't really know what it will take though.

I think there's a perception that Obama is much further left than most people are comfortable with. I don't know how rational that perception is, particularly when you look at most of what he's actually done, but I think it makes it hard for anyone from a purple to red district to support his policies and remain viable. I don't know that I read these politicians behavior as a desire simply to undermine or resist Obama personally, but more because they think they know what their constituents will tolerate. If they don't get the concessions that they think they need or if they get them but the public backlash is still too great, they aren't willing to sacrifice their careers for it.

Brown's position is solid because he's from a pretty liberal state. He has a luxury that most Republicans don't when it comes to moving to the center or moving from the center to the left.

I favor ideological purity on some level, but I don't support pure party loyalty at all. A lot of what Republicans have done when they've been the majority party is pretty indefensible by conservative or small government standards.

I think you may have interpreted something I wrote more broadly than I intended or maybe you weren't really responding to me, but my leading by example comment was really only intended to be about the public discourse stuff. I think complaining about how bad the other side treats people just feeds the problem, but it's hard to resist too. You know I was outraged about how Palin was treated during the election, but I'm pretty sure my outrage didn't contribute anything.

Either my computer screen is funny or you all are typing novels.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticCat (Post 1944550)

I agree. I'm somewhat optimistic that we'll adjust and develop an appropriate level of skepticism. We survived yellow journalism as a country before; there really isn't a golden age of objective information we can point to as far as I'm concerned. We just need to learn to handle the volume of really bad information. I think we will.

I am concerned about fragmentation of the general culture as we all chose the sources that we consider reliable, but that's an issue for another thread maybe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrPhil (Post 1944575)

Either my computer screen is funny or you all are typing novels.

My novel would have a lot more plot and least one character named Zelda. But yeah, these are long posts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghostwriter (Post 1944536)

I don't know - McCain lost me when he selected Palin.

Quote:

Originally Posted by UGAalum94 (Post 1944573)

I think there's a perception that Obama is much further left than most people are comfortable with.

I favor ideological purity on some level, but I don't support pure party loyalty at all. A lot of what Republicans have done when they've been the majority party is pretty indefensible by conservative or small government standards.

He is as far to the left as we have ever seen in the WH. The only person happy with his performance has to be Jimmy Carter. Now Carter will no longer be considered the worst President in history.

Amen on the Republican's blowing it. I am a registered Republican and we got what we deserved. Hence the Tea Party which is libertarian at it's core.

Quote:

Originally Posted by agzg (Post 1944601)

I don't know - McCain lost me when he selected Palin.

The GOP lost me when they selected McCain, as well as the Dems when they chose Obama. Obama would have made a good president 8-12 years from now, he's just too green for me and I think the shoes he's filling are just a little too big for him. Just my personal opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghostwriter (Post 1944624)

Now Carter will no longer be considered the worst President in history.

I thought that was Bush? Or wait a minute, wasn't it Reagan? Or the other Bush? Or Clinton? Or Hoover? Or . . . do we count William Henry Harrison?

I kid . . . mainly because I think claims of "worst president in history" are so subjective and get tossed around so often for recent residents of the White House as to be meaningless.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticCat (Post 1944656)

Right. As are claims of "best president."

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticCat (Post 1944550)

And that's the problem! People have a bad habit of believing whatever they read. I can't tell you how many crazy emails I have gotten from republican friends since Obama started running for President. They haven't paid attention that I'm a Democrat. I don't hide it, but I don't post political tirades on FB or get into political discussions with friends of opposing views....I don't think we'd be friends for long :D.

As much as people want to say that race has nothing to do with the difference now, I have a huge disagreement. It may not be why people disagree with what Obama is doing or what he stands for, but it is why a LOT of people are so violently opposed to him and can't even listen to a single thing he proposes. No one I know liked Bill Clinton, but he and Hillary didn't ellicit a response as strong as President Obama. I don't have enough fingers and toes to count the number of ugly, racist emails I've gotten about Obama. I just delete them. I'm really disappointed mainly. I will agree with everyone that he's not a perfect president, but I think he's done a generally good job since he's been in office. He's done what he said he'd do since he was elected, so if you didn't like what he said he'd do, obviously you aren't excited.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghostwriter (Post 1944536)

The John McCain who ran in 2000 had my vote. Had that John McCain run in 2008 and had he not selected Palin, he would have had my vote over Obama. That is true for a lot of the registered Democrats with whom I discuss politics.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghostwriter (Post 1944624)

I do not see him as far left as you apparently do. I believe FDR was further to the left. The health care bill he put forth was very similar to the one proposed by the Republicans in 1994, after Hilary had put forth a MUCH more "socialized" health care reform bill. If he was that far left, he would believe in gay marriage, which he does not. If he was that far left, he would have given more financially to the auto industry instead of forcing them into bankruptcy and devastating an entire state's economy.

Everybody seems to forget that the bank bailout was done when the Republicans were in power.

The Tea Party, if they want to be successful, need to figure out who they really are. I really can't tell exactly what they want or how they would handle things.

What is frustrating to me is when things are shot down simply because of who proposes it, not because it is a bad idea, no matter which side is doing that. I would really like to hear solutions coming from the other side, not just insults. The political climate is so divisive right now that it seems like all any of the politicians care about is which side wins, not what will really help things get better. And really, the state of our union is really awful right now. But, everybody is too worried about who is 'winning' instead of truly caring about the messes we are currently in and that is incredibly frustrating.

Bump because now that the election is over (and Ellmers appears to have won by fewer than 2000 votes, unless provisional/absentee ballots or a recount changes things), Republican strategists admit the Etheridge video was a set up.

Democrats Outrun by a 2-Year G.O.P. Comeback Plan (NY Times)

They also tried to push Democrats into retirement, using what was described in the presentation as “guerilla tactics” like chasing Democratic members down with video cameras and pressing them to explain votes or positions. (One target, Representative Bob Etheridge of North Carolina, had to apologize for manhandling one of his inquisitors in a clip memorialized on YouTube. Only this week did Republican strategists acknowledge they were behind the episode.)

Ellmers claims she didn't know it was a set up, and I hope she's telling the truth.

While I still say Etheridge is responsible for his own actions and reaction, it just makes me sick.

Etheridge conceded. I'm not going to miss him. Hopefully one day David Price will be gone as well.