Well, if breathesgelatin is around, she can fill us in on what happened at W&L when she was there -- there's a thread about somewhere around here. Definitely the exception, though.

Yes, I'm sure the honorable organization will appreciate your efforts, given what you yourself acknowledge:

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCunningham (Post 1918922) Lastly, I know this is unethical . . .

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCunningham (Post 1918966) I am fully aware that I am betraying the values that have been laid down by my fraternity and the brothers which have founded it both nationally and on my campus.

I really can't believe you registered and posted (with your real name, no less) just to fill us all in on this.

http://creativegreenius.files.wordpr...nt-of-fail.jpg

You beat me to it. :)

Jeff Cunningham is an idiot and this is a huge FAIL.

i think it all boils down to being affiliated(even if it is in a rubbing elbows kind of way) with a formerly very prestigious fraternity that has the potential to regain its former reputation once it returns to campus and reaping the rewards of that affiliation-powerful, successful alumni, great parties, gorgeous girls attending said parties, etc.

it's not about the long term benefits, because there aren't any(except maybe a job offer with prestigious firm and a trophy wife), it's about the here and now.

But fsuzeta, he doesn't want to be a brother. He just wants to pledge and drop out pre-initiation.

Look, Jeff, are you in or out? Do you love your chapter or not? If so, you will stay, take some of these suggestions to heart, and do what you can to effect the change you say you want. If not, the best thing to do is disaffiliate. You'd be doing yourself and your brothers a favor in the long run.

The RIGHT pledge class, not any old pledge class you YOU and your brothers decided to vote in. Choose better pledges and you'll get better brothers. Don't choose just to get numbers.

ree-Xi: Don't choose just to get numbers.

Excellent Point!!!!! Numbers do not mean S**T if they are not producing any results.

Though I do know a lot about NPC extension, I'll admit I am no expert on NIC extension procedures. Still, I'd imagine the school has to approve the recolonization of Strong Southern Fraternity, and it would be up to those two parties to decide when the best time to return would be, and that may very well be AFTER you graduate.

Strong Southern Fraternity will be back at your SEC school at some point if they are as strong in the South as you say they are. They probably own their house. Point is, it's a matter of when, not if, and they don't need you to help them. The decision of when they return is not going to be up to you. Why would they even want a group of guys with no concept of loyalty recruiting members for them?

North-South differences aside, I'm sorry your chapter became something you don't like. I'm sorry you're in the minority. I'm sorry you've given up trying to improve your chapter. But most of all, I'm sorry that you don't give a shit about your alumni membership to the point where you'd throw it away to be able to say that you "helped" a strong, presitigious organization that doesn't need your help in the first place.

Your fraternity is so much bigger than your chapter. You might find that you connect with members from other chapters (from the South, of course:rolleyes:) when you are an alumnus. College is 4 (or maybe 5 or 6) years, and your alumni membership is for the rest of your life. If you keep your membership, you can help your own chapter recolonize once the ding-dongs manage to get themselves kicked off as well.

ETA: Out of 80 members, 15-20 who give a shit about the chapter and work to enact change ARE enough.

I think that was a whole chapter though, not just the Ed Hardy-phobes.

The problem with that concept is that according to him, the other 60 members are happy as clams. I haven't heard him say that they're hazing, or that they're raping 13 year olds, or snorting smack off each other's butts, or in dire straits financially. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with this chapter except for the fact that they're "Northern." This doesn't mean they don't give a shit about the chapter. Unless they're having trouble $$ wise or RM wise, the national isn't going to recolonize them just because they don't fit in with the perceived notions of what a "good" fraternity is on campus. That's not how men operate.

It took me about 2 seconds to figure out where this kid goes....I'm thinking Bama. It then took me another 3 seconds to figure out what fraternity he is in. I won't say out of respect for his Org. (even though he clearly doesn't have any respect for it). The point is, Jeff-you should just disaffiliate and stop making your GLO look bad. I have horrible sleuth skills and there are many GCers on here who have 99% better sleuth skills than me and I would be willing to put money on it that you attend either Bama (I won't say how I know that) or...at least LSU. Just remember that just because some of us may not attend your school, doesn't mean we don't have brothers/ sisters who attend it. Discretion is key.

It was. And I think it was a whole chapter losing its charter, too.

Oh I agree...he hasn't said that there was an actual problem. I was just trying to make the point that 15-20 out of 80 is enough to make change, just in a general sense. To put it in Phired Up terms, 15-20 "horses" can make an impact in a chapter of 80 if the rest are mules.

Hmmm. Is that supposedly how women operate?

Well, there was an instance with one NPC that did that and made national news about 5 years ago...but their National Council has since been replaced. Even then, they were a small chapter and I'm assuming they had financial problems as a result. So it wasn't just about image.

Instead of saying men or women, it's really just about how organizations, in general, operate given the right context or influence. People will be surprised the fraternity things that happen that defy notions of how "men operate."

This is the dumbest goddamn thread I've read in a while.

Haha I did, and it's a fact.

Besides that, JC this is a dumb thread. I get trying to change it, but I would just go desperate and disaffiliate.

Oh and...

Let me out you:
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:Q...MwX_WwL8Pl.jpg
You've done pretty well in the MLS these last couple years Jeff Cunningham, but I think you're a bit old to be posting about changing your fraternity around.


Oh and any bets on the actual house? I'm trying to think of the newer houses there. I thought he might be a Phi Sig for a bit from Arkansas.

I realize just how much dumbassity people are capable of when they come to GC, but this one just seems to be a little too easy. Dude gave his full name and practically drew a map to his chapter house. I sort of think that maybe someone who doesn't like things Jeff might be doing in his current chapter may have been the ones who read The Art of War and The Prince.

That said, if the other fraternity was "kicked off" campus a few years ago, you can dream all you want about it being recolonized. It doesn't matter what the alumni want, there was obviously a reason why they were shut down and the school and nationals may have very different visions about if and when the chapter can be recolonized. I know fraternities work differently, but seems to me that it would require a lot more than a few cargo-short-phobes who've abandoned their own fraternity pleading to "help" re-establish a chapter.

But they're not mules. They're horses of a different color. I agree with you, but that really is not the situation as good old JC has laid it out.

And as far as the men/women question...maybe there is one instance that made national news, but it sure as hell hasn't been the only instance that existed, and in that instance, it was clarified that financial problems were NOT a factor.

LOL @ EW...Jamaica, Jamaica!

I hear ya, 33girl...in this instance and every instance...in that instance. :p

Jeff Cunningham should have stayed with Jamaican team. He would've played pretty regularly. He's one of my favorite MLS'ers.

I'm here, just in time to save the day!

Yes, this happened while I was at W&L, my junior year.

Sigma Phi Epsilon was kicked off campus over the summer of 2003.

That fall the brothers of SigEp (or SPE in old school W&L parlance) decided to go in together and pledge Alpha Delta Phi and try to conduct rush from an off campus house (all the recognized fraternities at W&L were housed). They all resigned their membership in SigEp, although SigEp refused to release them from their membership obligations. In defiance, they were initiated into Alpha Delta Phi anyway.

Alpha Delta Phi (formerly SigEp) failed to receive recognition by the W&L's local IFC, and they failed to get any freshmen to pledge their fraternity come January (W&L has deferred recruitment). So, essentially, the chapter had folded by the end of the 2003-2004 schoolyear.

Some (not all) of those same brothers THEN joined Phi Kappa Psi, a fraternity which had traditionally been at the top of the mid tier at W&L, but had experienced some problems in recent years. I heard that some of these members were even initiated into Phi Kappa Psi but I have no idea if that is 100% accurate or not. Possibly they were just social members who lived/ate at the house and the initiation story was just braggadocio. It is certainly true that some of these members participated in national Phi Kappa Psi events and claim this affiliation on their facebook pages to this day, etc. So possibly, some of these guys had experienced three fraternity initiations.

At the time of this occurrence there was a lot of discussion on campus over whether SigEp might sue Alpha Delta Phi for initiating the members that SigEp refused to release, but I think SigEp just figured it wasn't worth the effort.

The differences were: SigEp as a whole was kicked off entirely, the entire chapter attempted to affiliate with Alpha Delta Phi, and Alpha Delta Phi was clearly a 'downgrade' from SigEp.

I know that Alpha Delta Phi has on other occasions colonized deactivated chapters of other fraternities (in fact there is a guy on GreekChat who will come and defend these actions to his dying breath), but I don't really think that Alpha Delta Phi would be the type of fraternity the OP is interested in. I don't think any 'legit southern fraternity' would ever pull this kind of shit.

Is it normal for Fraternities that get kicked off campus to change to a different organization? How often does it occur?