Originally Posted by DEVODUDE (Post 1873731)

knight_shadow;1873719....IIRC, that clause states that IFC can't keep members out, but the campus can.

If State University recognizes an NIC group and it petitions for membership in IFC, they must allow the group to join.

OK, so how would that work for a fraternity that is not a member of the NIC??? Can they (fraternity) apply for university recognition as an independent National Fraternity and be placed in the same category with Service & Professional Fraternities/Societies???

Originally Posted by knight_shadow (Post 1873733)

IFC is not the only governing council that can exist on a campus. A non-NIC organization can get university recognition and petition for membership in a different council (NALFO, NPHC, MGC, etc, depending on the type of group).

Originally Posted by MysticCat (Post 1873757)

But if it's a general social fraternity, IFC is likely the proper fit, not, say, NALFO or MGC. I'd hazard a guess that most, if not all, IFCs can at least theoretically include non-NIC members.

As noted earlier in this thread, Kappa Sigma, Phi Delta Theta and Phi Sigma Kappa all left the NIC, yet their chapters are all likely to be IFC. Lots of fraternities have left NIC over the years (and usually come back later), but their chapters have remained part of campus IFCs.

Meanwhile, my fraternity has never been a member of NIC, but many of our chapters are part of their campus IFC.

Originally Posted by MysticCat (Post 1873757)

But if it's a general social fraternity, IFC is likely the proper fit, not, say, NALFO or MGC. I'd hazard a guess that most, if not all, IFCs can at least theoretically include non-NIC members.

As noted earlier in this thread, Kappa Sigma, Phi Delta Theta and Phi Sigma Kappa all left the NIC, yet their chapters are all likely to be IFC. Lots of fraternities have left NIC over the years (and usually come back later), but their chapters have remained part of campus IFCs.

Meanwhile, my fraternity has never been a member of NIC, but many of our chapters are part of their campus IFC.

Originally Posted by TSteven (Post 1873763)

Cosign.

One additional thing to understand about the IFC is that the campus IFC is not directly affiliated with - or governed by - the NIC. As such, local fraternities, regional based fraternities, as well as non-council affiliated national fraternities may belong to a campus IFC. As MysticCat noted, the most common example of this is Kappa Sigma and Phi Delta Theta. While both are no longer members of the NIC, (Phi Sigma Kappa has rejoined the NIC), most of their chapters are members of their respective campus IFC. And as MysticCat also noted, on some campuses "service" and "professional" GLOs have been known to be members of the campus IFC in addition to FLA, NAPAPA, NALFO, NMGC, NPHC, NIC.

Originally Posted by knight_shadow (Post 1873774)

I understand that IFC is a good fit for several organizations. My point was that IFC is not the end-all, be-all when it comes to governing bodies.

I believe some people thought that not belonging to NIC/IFC = not being able to be on campus, period.

Originally Posted by knight_shadow (Post 1873774)

I understand that IFC is a good fit for several organizations. My point was that IFC is not the end-all, be-all when it comes to governing bodies.

I believe some people thought that not belonging to NIC/IFC = not being able to be on campus, period.

I realize that NIC's power is loose, but it's still there. If NIC didn't have at least some power over the local IFCs, the by-laws concerning open expansion and recruitment would be pointless.

And I know that local IFCs include non-NIC organizations. The by-law doesn't pertain to those organizations, though. I was simply clarifying that IFC can't prevent an NIC organization from joining. Everything else would be up to the local council and the school.

Originally Posted by TSteven (Post 1873788)

On some campuses, while they are not suppose to per the NIC, the campus IFC has prevented an NIC organization from joining the IFC. It seems that the key issue is that the NIC does not governed the IFC or technically have the power to actually come on a campus to dictate what the campus IFC may or may not do.

Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 1873545)

I don't want to beat a dead horse, but can we clarify "rude"? I mean, if the IFC told them they couldn't colonize and KS said "oh yes we can" they're not being rude, they're stating a fact. Some people classify telling the truth without sugarcoating as rude.

I mean I kind of have a problem envisioning a national fraternity officer dropping f bombs and/or flipping the bird, no matter how upset he was.

Originally Posted by fiji frank (Post 1899181)

I am talking to a few buddies of mine that go to FGCU about trying to get FIJI started down there. We're not gonna follow FGCU's rules at all. We're gonna get in contact with nationals and just colonize. FGCU's expansion rules are retarded. I agree with ryquis. FGCU's greek life is a joke from what I hear.

Originally Posted by fiji frank (Post 1899181)

I am talking to a few buddies of mine that go to FGCU about trying to get FIJI started down there. We're not gonna follow FGCU's rules at all. We're gonna get in contact with nationals and just colonize. FGCU's expansion rules are retarded. I agree with ryquis. FGCU's greek life is a joke from what I hear.

Originally Posted by fiji frank (Post 1899181)

I am talking to a few buddies of mine that go to FGCU about trying to get FIJI started down there. We're not gonna follow FGCU's rules at all. We're gonna get in contact with nationals and just colonize. FGCU's expansion rules are retarded. I agree with ryquis. FGCU's greek life is a joke from what I hear.

Originally Posted by xtreme17618 (Post 1910455)

Ok, where to begin. I just found this thread today and I am actually apart of the Kappa Sigma colony of Fort Myers. We are trying to get on campus but there is alot of opposition because of the route we took. We actually had a meeting with the IFC this morning and we were denied, but still soon to be the Rho Zeta Chapter. If you have any questions just lmk. Thank you for all who support us.

Originally Posted by DrPhil (Post 1910456)

a part

You are still soon to be the Rho Zeta Chapter? How so?

Originally Posted by jennyj87 (Post 1910462)

I believe because Kappa Sigma is still going to let them be a chapter, just without school or IFC recognition.....

I could be wrong.

Originally Posted by jennyj87 (Post 1910462)

From what I've been told, please understand this is hear say or whatever, one of the probelms with Kappa Sigma coming to FGCU was that they are not part of NIC which leads to insurance reasons. Can anyone exlpain this?

Originally Posted by rex in effect (Post 1910619)

Yea. Kappa Sigma has done many non campus recognized colonies and chapters at different colleges across the country. The colonies and chapters have always ended up getting recognized by the schools in which they pursued. I can see everything getting worked out within a matter of time.

Originally Posted by jennyj87 (Post 1910462)

I believe because Kappa Sigma is still going to let them be a chapter, just without school or IFC recognition.....

I could be wrong.

From what I've been told, please understand this is hear say or whatever, one of the problems with Kappa Sigma coming to FGCU was that they are not part of NIC which leads to insurance reasons. Can anyone explain this?

Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 1910536)

I'm sure they still have insurance. It just may not be from the same carrier that the NIC groups use. I just looked at the NIC site and I couldn't find anything about any sort of blanket insurance.

Originally Posted by TSteven (Post 1910670)

I have never heard of any kind of blanket insurance for NIC members. Do any of the other umbrella organizations/councils provide blanket insurance coverage for their members?

Originally Posted by KSigAdvisor (Post 1913055)

Lane Sig-

You are dead wrong. All North American Fraternities have a united interest in equal protection of the laws and in protecting our rights as single gender organizations. Fraternities have been litigating First Amendment issues for the past 50 years, and thanks to Title 9 and United States Supreme Court case law, we are recognized as "expressive associations" entitled to complete First Amendment protection despite our single gender status. For this reason, when it comes to protecting our classification, all fraternities support each other in free expansion issues. Freedom of association issues are intertwined with freedom of expansion issues, and when we blur the lines like the undergrads in IFC have done at FGCU, we weaken our position and open ourselves up for attack from those who would challenge fraternities and sororities as discriminatory organizations. On public universities, we have to stand and fight together to support open expansion. I could give you a lengthier explanation, but hopefully you get it.

As such, in the NIC constitution, each member fraternity swears to uphold and support free expansion. Try to be educated, not just opinionated. Kappa Sigma contacted every single executive office of the fraternities on FGCU's campus, asking for their support. We have letters and emails from every single fraternity supporting our petition to join IFC at FGCU. Sigma Chi is the only fraternity that doesn't require their Chapters to vote in a certain way, but they openly support us and encourage their chapters to vote accordingly. All of the other fraternities have instructed their chapters at FGCU to vote in favor of Kappa Sigma joining IFC. Apparently they didn't get the message.

So, this IS how it works. Should I repeat myself? We are all on the same team here in fighting for Greek organizations rights to equal protection of the laws, pursuant to the 14th Amendment, and for the right to freely associate, pursuant to the First Amendment. Once on campus, we should compete against each other in a fraternal manner. But as far as fighting for our rights at public universities, we are all in this together. Kappa Sigma is the first chapter to always vote in favor of recognizing any fraternity that wants to come onto any campus. We instruct our chapters to vote that way, and we do it for a reason. This support is reciprocal. It does work this way.

Originally Posted by K∑_PZ_AEKΔB (Post 1913078)

Hi,

Also a member of the soon to be Rho-Zeta Chapter of the Kappa Sigma Fraternity here at Florida Gulf Coast University.
In addition to what the advisor said above, we are in pursuit of catalyzing the change to the current IFC bylaws at the University to streamline Greek growth & the benefits recieved from this. Our vision is not to "open the flood gates", but to open the gates period, and by doing so - put the ability of recognition in the hands of the prospective group.
Consider if you will for a minute how competition in all aspects of life pushes one to thrive. This same concept certainly applies to the Greek community at FGCU and any campus. Ammending the current policies and procedures to put the capacity of recognition in the hands of the students can be a relatively simple process.

If a nationally recognized interest group/colony/chapter that is unrecognized by the university & the university's IFC:

- Completes the checklist set forth by nationals (membership, GPA, community service hours, fundraising dollars per man, campus involvement, etc...).

- Is, at the least, 1/3 the size of the current largest fraternal chapter on campus.

- & shows, through presentation to the IFC, that they would be a beneficial asset to the community, the university, greek life, and the IFC.

... they should be allowed recognition, following the ideals of open expansion. Of course, the vote would be cast through the IFC delegates - but to accomplish the feats above is no simple task. While it ultimately puts the ability in the hands of those in pursuit, it also defends from "the flood gates opening". The concept, if possible to institute, would surely benefit all and draw harm to none. If possible, this is what I would personally like to see happen at Florida Gulf Coast University - with Kappa Sigma leading the way for that change.

Originally Posted by K∑_PZ_AEKΔB (Post 1913228)

The FOX coverage was not 100% accurate. We know how the expansion process works and do indeed plan to change it in favor of an open expansion model. Undeniably, it would be advantageous for all parties if the policies and procedure were ammended in such a way. So, having said this - if Sigma Alpha Epsilon hears of the change in IFC's expansion policy and wants to come on, our Kappa Sigma delegate would vote in favor of this expansion (following procedures of open expansion). Our colony and our alumni recognize the bigger picture here. That picture being that it is not all about us... but also for other students and organizations down the road. Within the next five years, FGCU undergraduate enrollment is projected to increase by 5,000 students (from roughly 10,000 to 15,000). It is estimated that roughly 80% of all Southwest Florida high school graduates are enrolling at FGCU. The campus is evolving at such a streamline pace... enrollment, organizations, buildings, majors, etc. Why not greek life as well? It really is astonishing that Greek Life is being so conservative in the wake of such growth.

Originally Posted by K∑_PZ_AEKΔB (Post 1913228)

The FOX coverage was not 100% accurate. We know how the expansion process works and do indeed plan to change it in favor of an open expansion model. Undeniably, it would be advantageous for all parties if the policies and procedure were ammended in such a way. So, having said this - if Sigma Alpha Epsilon hears of the change in IFC's expansion policy and wants to come on, our Kappa Sigma delegate would vote in favor of this expansion (following procedures of open expansion). Our colony and our alumni recognize the bigger picture here. That picture being that it is not all about us... but also for other organizations down the road. Within the next five years, FGCU undergraduate enrollment is projected to increase by 5,000 students (from roughly 10,000 to 15,000). It is estimated that roughly 80% of all Southwest Florida high school graduates are enrolling at FGCU. The campus is evolving at such a streamline pace... enrollment, organizations, buildings, majors, etc. Why not greek life as well? It really is astonishing that Greek Life is being so conservative in the wake of such growth.

Originally Posted by jennyj87 (Post 1913233)

Also if the FOX coverage was so wrong, maybe you should talk to them. Because their biggest pushing part of that story is that kappa sigma has "no idea why they can't come on campus".

Originally Posted by K∑_PZ_AEKΔB (Post 1913235)

We know of the policies and procedures. However, those policies and procedures do not make sense to us and any explanation recieved for them thusfar have been insignificant. The policies seem to have no root, no causation... at least no legitimate causation. Its like we are asking "Why?" and all we are getting in response is "Because." Would you be satisfied with such a lackluster reply?

Rules and regulations are meant to be challenged. If challenged (this case) and proven to be faulty or inadequate, rules and regulations are ammended. Historically, this is how it always has been. Why is this case any different? Shall we cement the current IFC bylaws in impenetrable stone??? I think not, we think not, Kappa Sigma thinks not.