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KSigkid 05-16-2009 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle (Post 1809701)
KSig, I spent about 1/3 of my childhood/teen years in New Jersey. Trust me when I say that the mindset of which I spoke was VERY evident. If I had a nickel for every time I heard "Well, at least we WON the war!" after being subjected to being insulted for merely being from the south I would be a very wealthy woman. It may be that as a southerner I was subjected to this, while you as a native born yankee were not. There have been more historians presenting more balanced views of the Late Unpleasantness since the 70s I think - perhaps things are better now. I hope so.

I'd still argue my logic is spot-on. If the primary premise is that 1.) Having slavery legal = racism, and the secondary premise is 2.)The Union had legal slavery, then a logical conclusion is that Union = Racism. You can plug in C.S.A. and get the same result - and my point is that no one would have had a problem with Upsilon Alpha (see what I did there? Union Army?!) coming past the AKA house in Union blue. (Although if you have read any of Sherman's very own reports in U.S. military records, you might think differently.) If I have unwittingly slipped into a logical fallacy please let me know which one. (Bear in mind I teach logic, so if you call my logic into question I am going to ask you to let me know exactly how it fails!).

You said it made more logical sense to be offended by Union blue than it did by Confederate uniforms. You never said the two were equal. If you said the two were equal, then I can understand that statement a little more.

ETA: I'll respect the fact that you teach logic...but I do know a little about the Civil War, having been a history major in college and studied under a scholar in the subject. So I guess we could probably teach each other quite a bit. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AOEforme (Post 1809712)
On the other hand, if I had a nickle for every time I heard that same exact phrase from Southerners, I'd stop worrying about paying for med school and my summer trip to Europe.

A lot of my family is from Mizzou, Georgia, and Alabama, and I'll hear that constantly from them or other people when I'm visiting. ("You know WE really won the war, right?")

Exactly - you hear things along these lines in both the North and South. I like visiting the South and have enjoyed my time there, but it never fails that I'll get comments from complete strangers along the same lines when I'm down there. To say it happens more frequently in one area than the other is incorrect.

SWTXBelle 05-16-2009 07:39 PM

To clarify - it makes MORE sense if you weigh the fact that the Union had slavery LONGER than the CSA. Sorry if I wasn't more clear - and while that makes more logical sense, my ultimate point is that it's silly to get into that particular contest, since both sides were guilty of the same sin. I didn't think you were rude, btw.

As to history - I met my husband doing living history presentations for local schools. (I played a resident of occupied New Orleans - he was a hateful Yankee a la Beast Butler's school of charm.) He is a history professor who is the protege of Tuffly Ellis, and is a published WBTS scholar. Not the same thing as having the degrees myself, but I am surrounded by a great deal of the stuff, and you'd be surprised at what constitutes dinner conversation 'round here.:rolleyes:

MysticCat 05-16-2009 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beryana (Post 1809700)
What you are thinking of as the 'Confederate Flag' is actually the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia.

Or the second navy jack -- same basic design, but rectangular rather than square and no white border.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nanners52674 (Post 1809696)
It very well could be my general lack of Civil War knowledge but I've never fully understood how the Rebel Flag came to be a sign of slavery.

As SWTXBelle says, it's not really so much a symbol of slavery per se. But thanks to the way that the battle flag/navy jack ("the Confederate/Rebel flag") was used/co-opted by white supremacist groups like the Klan and by those opposing desegregation, it became associated with white supremacy and Jim Crowism.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle (Post 1809701)
As a proud southerner I am appalled any time any symbols of the C.S.A. are used by any racist groups. I consider it an insult to the memory of my ancestors.

Ditto.

golfer11 05-16-2009 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticCat (Post 1809531)
I was with you until you got to the bit about the AKAs blowing it "WAY out of proportion."

they make a huge deal out of nothing. simply put the ka's picked up their dates on soroity row which is where the aka's house is. they got backed up in traffic and now the aka's are trying to make somthing out of nothing.

sceniczip 05-16-2009 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticCat (Post 1809610)
I love Gone With the Wind as much as anyone, but let's be real -- it is a highly romanticized, lop-sided view of the ante-bellum and post-bellum South. Dressing up like Miss Scarlet or Ashley Wilkes is to Civil War Reenactment as, well, fiction is to history.

lol no I'm definitely well aware that it was very romanticized and lop-sided (I'm an English major who is doing all of her liberal arts area gen eds in the history department lol) But I'm just saying that it doesn't sound like these guys meant any harm to anyone but just my opinion.

DrPhil 05-16-2009 10:33 PM

It could just be bad timing. That's unforunate for both the KAs (because they could be accused of something they did not intend to do) and the AKAs (because some of them felt uncomfortable).

That's my conclusion at face value.

At the same time, there could be racial issues on that campus, as there are on many campuses across the country, that led to this timing. I don't know. I don't make assumptions regarding racial antagonism without proof. A confederate flag isn't inherently proof if there's no contextual evidence.

PeppyGPhiB 05-17-2009 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSigkid (Post 1809716)
Exactly - you hear things along these lines in both the North and South. I like visiting the South and have enjoyed my time there, but it never fails that I'll get comments from complete strangers along the same lines when I'm down there. To say it happens more frequently in one area than the other is incorrect.

No kidding. Between my college boyfriend being from South Carolina, a ton of cousins in Georgia and Virginia, and my current boyfriend's family in Florida, I've been called Yankee more times than I can count. Um, I'm from Washington state, which wasn't even a state until 1889! Leave us out of it!

banditone 05-17-2009 02:03 AM

So how many boyfriends you sporting right now exactly?

Munchkin03 05-17-2009 10:36 AM

If I'm not mistaken, wasn't a cross burned in front of the AKA house at UA sometime in the not too distant past? If that's the case, I can see that there would be a level of sensitivity on both sides.

Seriously, people have been called Yankees? In all my born days, I've never heard anyone say that with a straight face. I grew up in the South, and have spent my entire adult life in the Northeast. The only time I hear anything about the Yankees, it's in reference to the unfortunate baseball team in the Bronx...;)

KSigkid 05-17-2009 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Munchkin03 (Post 1809815)
If I'm not mistaken, wasn't a cross burned in front of the AKA house at UA sometime in the not too distant past? If that's the case, I can see that there would be a level of sensitivity on both sides.

Seriously, people have been called Yankees? In all my born days, I've never heard anyone say that with a straight face. I grew up in the South, and have spent my entire adult life in the Northeast. The only time I hear anything about the Yankees, it's in reference to the unfortunate baseball team in the Bronx...;)

Haha, yeah, I've been called a Yankee a few times on my trips to the South (mostly to Mississippi). My first reaction is to wonder how they know I'm a fan of the aforementioned unfortunate baseball team ;)

Again, I've found it happens on both sides - you get Southerners who come up North and say that things are better down South, and you get Northerners who go down South and do the same thing. There are obnoxious people all over the country.

DrPhil 05-17-2009 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Munchkin03 (Post 1809815)
If I'm not mistaken, wasn't a cross burned in front of the AKA house at UA sometime in the not too distant past? If that's the case, I can see that there would be a level of sensitivity on both sides.

Welp, there ya have it. Thanks for the reminder.

DrPhil 05-17-2009 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSigkid (Post 1809826)
Haha, yeah, I've been called a Yankee a few times on my trips to the South (mostly to Mississippi). My first reaction is to wonder how they know I'm a fan of the aforementioned unfortunate baseball team ;)

Again, I've found it happens on both sides - you get Southerners who come up North and say that things are better down South, and you get Northerners who go down South and do the same thing. There are obnoxious people all over the country.

Some people are really serious about these regional loyalties. I think that's dumb.

On a lighthearted note:
Does anyone remember the episode of Sex and the City when Carrie was telling her boyfriend that NY women don't wear scrunchies? They saw a woman with a scrunchie in a club. The woman said (with a VERY strong Southern accent) "Oh mai?! ohhhh, nah...I'm from Nauth Currrlina. Honey, did you hear what that lady just said, she thought I was from NY?!" That definitely played on a stereotype.

MysticCat 05-17-2009 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Munchkin03 (Post 1809815)
Seriously, people have been called Yankees? In all my born days, I've never heard anyone say that with a straight face. I grew up in the South, and have spent my entire adult life in the Northeast.

Really? I've heard people described or called Yankees all the time, although as often as not if it's to the person's face, it's tongue-in-cheek (as in "What would you know about what tea is supposed to taste like? You're a Yankee, for Pete's sake!).

Otherwise, we just say that they're "not from around here." ;)

Munchkin03 05-18-2009 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticCat (Post 1809860)
Really? I've heard people described or called Yankees all the time, although as often as not if it's to the person's face, it's tongue-in-cheek (as in "What would you know about what tea is supposed to taste like? You're a Yankee, for Pete's sake!).

Otherwise, we just say that they're "not from around here." ;)

I should posit here that I grew up in a military town in the South. Therefore, most people "aren't from around here." ;)

srmom 05-18-2009 10:39 AM

I call my husband a yankee all the time, and it's totally tongue in cheek. He's from Chicago, but moved to Texas before I was born, so his comeback is that he's been here longer than I have. Then he says that I could technically be called a yankee for the years I spent in New Jersey, and the remnant of the Joisey accent :rolleyes:

My ultimate comeback is that he is old and will always be older than me!

We give each other alot of crap ;)

Ghostwriter 05-18-2009 01:25 PM

My wife was born in MN and has lived in the South for 43 years. I was born in SC and lived in the South all my life. She has more Southern traits then others who were born here but...

She likes to claim to be a Southerner but I won't let her. If you are born north of the Mason-Dixon line you will always be a Yankee no matter what.;)

We give each other a lot of crap, too.:)


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