Well, I went to a state school (what used to be called teachers colleges) and here are some of the major diffs from what I've read on GC.

-We never used recs (we got maybe one the whole time I was there and had no idea what to do with it)
-Rush before school started was unheard of
-Pretty much everyone who wanted a bid got one...maybe not to their first choice but if you wanted to be Greek, you could be.
-Like Erika said the legacy thing wasn't a big deal, we had them once in a while but didn't have entire pledge classes full of legacies.
-You didn't move into the house right away, all the houses were off campus and everyone was locked into housing by the time rush was over

Of course, this is just my experience...Penn State and the private institutions like Lehigh and Bucknell are totally different. But I would wager most states are like that.

33girl hit most of the big points. We would use recs if we got them but generally if there was someone coming through who was either a legacy or a friend, who was interested in our chapter, we knew about her in advance and didn't need the recs. One big difference from what she listed though is that at Kent, there was no way everyone got a bid. It was especially brutal the year I rushed because although Tri-sig figured in for quota computation, they did not actually participate in formal rush. So there were all these leftover girls at the end who didn't get bids, and Tri-Sig tried to snap bid everyone. But even after that year there would still be a lot of girls who didn't get a house. It seems to me that most of the schools described on GC had a number of "strong" or "popular" houses, especially if they were a big school, but then two or three times that number in other houses so that the members of the less prestigious houses don't feel so conspicuous. Not so at Kent. There were only 3 prestige houses, where most of the rushees wanted to go from the start, one mediocre house, and two weaker chapters. The prestige houses tended to get the higher numbers, and since there wasn't much else to choose from a lot of girls suicided/and or dropped out. I have a friend who went to the U of Wis. at Madison and she told me that they had like 2 or 3 super elite houses, then a huge middle tier, and then just a handful of really poor image chapters. That would seem to me to be the ideal situation. In the South it seems to me that if there are 10 houses, for example, 7 of them are very selective and prestigious and then the other 3 are the opposite.
Akron U, which is only 20 minutes from KSU, had basically the same setup we did except the chapters that were really hot at Kent (Chi O, Alpha Phi, Dee Gee) were not so great and then they had some houses that we didn't (KKG, AGD, ADII, Theta)

I've never given this deep thought before but the number of prestige houses on a big Southern campus varies greatly. In the seventies at the 3 schools I got degrees from, one school was said to have 4 high prestige groups, 3 medium, and 2 low; another campus was 6-5-3; and another, if you can believe this, was 1-3-2-2 (yes, one group was extremely high prestige as compared to the next 3 who were just "high").

Closings and openings of several chapters on each campus have since redone that a little but I'm told that all the high prestige groups on those campuses remain so and that there are still many rushees who wouldn't think of accepting a bid from any tier but the supposed top one. Sad! The middle tiers contain some outstanding groups.

Rush at my school was nowhere near as competitive as what I've heard about rush in the south. The sororities at my school pretty much invited everyone back after round 1 - that's how few people went through rush - out of 400-500 women in each freshman class, maybe 150 rushed. Sororities cut hard after round 2, but probably >90% of women got invited back to at least one house for pref, and most of the remainder were women who just gave rush a chance and didn't see anything right for them, so they were happy being independent.

It was unusual, though it did happen, for women to drop out of rush because they didn't like their returns.

I've never heard the sororities at my school described as prestige vs. non-prestige. If I were pressed I'd have to say there were 5 prestige sororities. :) (Fraternities are another story.)

We never had a legacy come through, and I don't think we'd have known what to do with a rec if we'd seen one... :)

The only similarity I've seen between my school and southern schools is that it's extremely difficult to get a bid past freshman year, unless you're a sophomore transfer.

From everything I have heard on GC, Kent State University is the ONLY school in the USA where being a sophomore rushee is actually an advantage!!!!!:D And I don't even know if this is the case anymore. But for quite a long stretch there, a lot of the really primo a-list girls were coming in and waiting, so they could get in good with the sorority they wanted and also with the fraternity guys who hung out with them. I personally hated that as an active, because then these girls got too hung up on one particular chapter and then you really had to fight hard for them even if the chapter they wanted dropped them. I have to admit we were pretty lucky because we almost always got the girls we wanted, but it still was irritating.

EricaXO: It seems to be that way at Bethany too. Sometimes we have women who would rather not go Greek than join a house that they didn't want. It's kind of sad, actually, because these houses will keep the women hanging on until they can COB.

This might seem really crazy...but there have been a lot of juniors & even seniors getting bids to houses here!

This would happen at Pitt, also. Rushees would start rush with their heart set on a certain sorority and if they got cut they would immediately withdraw from rush with the intention of rushing the next fall and getting the bid they wanted (worked maybe once or twice that I saw) or getting COB'd in January after some of the seniors graduated. Keep in mind, though, that I was there in the late '80's so I'm not too sure how things are now!

Yeah, the whole COB and deferred rush thing is big now. When I was an active we NEVER had to recruit beyond formal Fall rush. Once in a while the weaker chapters would have to do a spring rush to get numbers when they didn't meet quota....I guess basically the same thing you guys have been talking about was happening. A lot of girls if they got cut from the big 3 would drop out altogether. It really sucks for the weaker chapters because how are they ever supposed to get better if no one gives them a chance? It's been said before....it only takes one great pledge class to turn a chapter around. (And one lousy pledge class can do the same thing.) If a bunch of quality girls who got cut from the super-elite chapters banded together and joined one of the not-so-great groups, they could get very involved and really turn things on. But you never see it happen because everyone's ego gets in the way. "Well, I'M XYZ material and there's no way I'm going beneath me to join ABC!!!!" In a way, the rushees are as snobby as the sororities get accused of being.

It is really hard to let egos aside during rush. I remember my Rhochi saying that the houses knew where you belonged better than you knew where you belonged.

It hurts so much being cut and my school was pretty competitive so it sucked. That is why I find it so refreshing that some schools it doesn't matter what house you are in. They are all about the same.

I wish that rush was more of a draw thing. Kind of like getting picked form a hat. You are a Theta, you are Zeta, you are a Kappa but I know that would NEVER work.

And I know lowering quota wouldn't help either. So, I think it's getting better. At least where I went to school. When I first went through rush chapters could keep inviting as many girls back for each round of parties as they wished. That made the smaller/weaker houses suffer. And, YES, unfortunately, at my school if you were a small chapter, you were a weak chapter.

But now, the "stronger/better" chapters HAVE to cut a certain number after each round of parties. That way the stronger houses are stringing along those who would never get a bid but the sorority wants to pad the parties.

A couple of weeks ago, I was at a cocktail party. For the most part, every one there was an alum of a Greek organization at LSU. Several had written a rec for my daughter. A couple of things are interesting to note. Many of the men and ladies were members of groups that during their active years had different reputations than they do today. One of the men I spoke to was a Kappa Sig and they just got back on campus. By this time everyone was pretty well informed how rush went-who was cut and who cut their chapter.Because of the atmosphere and friendships everyone spoke freely. The main point was, if you have a strong Greek system, it's better to participate than to remain independant. The Kappa Sig was saying (and I've heard it a thousand times on GC) they, LSU chapters, need to promote "Go Greek" rather than individual fraternities and sororities. It has to be a "grass root" effort starting with alums and extending to the actives. Everyone was pretty torn with the legacy issue. On one hand, it was great if your child was a legacy of a currently strong house, but on the other, some of the legacies were not the best representatives of our area. The same thing is happening to our Krewes. One Krewe in particular has membership that is basically passed from mother/mother-in-law to daughter/daughter-in-law. At one time, the membership was entirely wives of doctors, lawyers, dentists and high profile ($$$) businessmen. These ladies had the financial freedom to do the "correct" volunteer work, ie; Jr. League, Cancer Society, THE RIGHT CHURCH.
Today, those daughters and granddaughters have married husbands with occupations that would have been shunned. You have parents paying for their kids' membership. Tax fraud, unethical behavior, swindlers just plain a$$es acting like they are important when in essence, they are really weakening the foundation. This is the loose comparison we made. I KNOW THIS SOUNDS AWFUL! The point was, alums need to take a more visible role in the initial recruitment process, (similar to those threads about famous national members) with our own local hall of fame. SEEK OUT INTERESTED INDIVIDUALS and get those recs out for the young men and women who meet a higher standard which we all want for our organization. Instead of a few ladies and men perpetuating the grandness of their own chapters, join in the effort to promote the concept of Greek life on campus. Many, many great girls dropped out because they were told by active members that their own sorority was the best or XYZ was the worst AND in a few sad cases, alums denegrated some of the chapters with "stear clear" statements and such. Once a person becomes involved, in MOST cases the benefits of Greek life completely over-shadows any disappointment that occurred during the rush process. As far as the legacy issue, there was no consensus. We all just hope that parents would raise their kids to exemplify the qualities we value and perhaps, while keeping the point system intact, just de-emphasize it a degree or two to make sure a bid is extended on the basis of the individual, not parents or grandparents.
I've got more to say, but fear I may have said too much already.

Well said as always, JustaMom! My sorority does hold legacies to a certain degree of esteem and we are expected to treat them with special consideration - up to a point. We are never expected to bid someone we feel would be detrimental to our sisterhood, and we are given plenty of time during rush to make such a decision before it reaches the point where we would have to have her top our bid list.

Speaking of legacies, I mentioned to my husband last night that Katie and CeCe are Delta Zeta legacies and he looked positively stricken. I said, "No, that's a very good thing" and he answered "But what about Flounder?"
"Huh???", I said
"Flounder, you know in Animal House. He was a legacy, right? Isn't that bad?"

Lord save us from the G.D.I.'s :rolleyes:

NO?
 

I was just reading through this thread and I have a question from a long ago post.

justamom said that most of the girls in her daughter's pledge class are private school or NO girls. What is NO?

I was also wondering about how many girls go through rush each year at LSU?

Re: NO?
 

i understood it to mean New Orleans, but I could be wrong.

KillarneyRose if your sweeties are anything like you, they will be the taost of the rush season! Boy is it stomach churning. I don't think I could take it TWICE-then, look at Carnation!!! I honestly think I'd be a wreck.

h2oot-Do you know much about fraternity rush? I was wondering if its similar in procedure to sorority rush. Do they need the letters of rec? I know I'll have a tad harder time ferriting out who was in what fraternity. It's not something that's talked about on the golf course. I can ask some wives, but I think the same situation exists where there are a lot of alums for one fraternity and few for another. We have friends whose son pledged-depledged, pledged the same again and depledged.
Also, another whose son cut one, promised to pledge another changed his mind and pledged one he had cut.(This is scetchy information) My son is a legacy to one you mentioned as strong and has a few contacts in others, but like my daughter, that would not influence his choice. This year was the first time in ages they actually had a decent sized group of young men rush from our area.

We're playing LSU in football next weekend!
 

Hey, we (MTSU Blue Raiders) are playing you guys next week! They have some pretty good bus and hotel deals for that game, but I can't even afford that right now with the rest of my dues I have to pay by next weekend.

h2oot-Thanks for the info.

ZetaLuvBunny-First let me say your name is darlin'.
That game is Homecoming for LSU! Here's wishing a safe trip to your players, band and supporters!

Oh, I wish I could go---I really do! But we have *Neophyte Night* and *Initiation*next weekend. :) If we play you next year I will try to come, though.

LSU rush
 

About the numbers of girls who went through rush at LSU, this year it was 890!!! Sadly, only 725 girls pledged.:(
Some were cut from all ten sororites and some dropped out after being cut from their favorites. Both are terrible situations because all sororities at LSU are awesome!! It was hard to see girls that were in my Rho Chi group there one day and not the next. I pledged Theta, and I LOVE it. I would have definately stayed in rush even if they would have cut me because, like I said, all sororities are awesome it's just about finding the one you fit in to.

ThetaLove, I heard the figure was 987 signed up. Now who showed up may be a different story. They are projecting it to keep increasing. That is so sad. I know some Moms have already started "dropping by" their houses with daughters in tow
to give the actives a heads up so to speak.
With the way many cut their legacies, MORE THAN A FEW are starting their preparations as we speak.

So interesting
 

Wow, Justamom, the recruitment at LSU sounds so interesting. It's definately different than what is done in California. I think I'd enjoy seeing how it works if I belonged to a sorority that had a chapter there. Do you know if, in general, members from other chapters are allowed to volunteer to help their sister chapters during recruitment at LSU? I imagine that with so many PNMs that LSU Panhellenic may have strict rules about that.



......Kelly :)

Already?! What if they aren't sure whether or not they're going to LSU?:(

navane-I don't know much about that end of it. h2oot may have a better handle on that information. I do know that some sororities welcome visitors from sister chapters at times and when girls or guys are in the area they are always welcome to stop by. I went on a bus trip to Auburn the Sigs invited our Sigs and dates to their house for a party.

AlphaChiGirl, LSU has the same dedication you see at UT or A&M.
There ISN'T a question (if they get the grades) where they will go. It is a "given" at birth from the little stuffed tiger to the LSU stripes on the Van. They KNOW they be LSU Tigers!

Justamom.....if you can believe it, there is some of that (thought certainly not to the extent down there) at Kent State. We are a "legacy" school particularly with the hometown kids. Just in my family alone, my parents, my husband's parents, my husband's brother, my cousin, my sister-in-law (for her MBA only) and countless kids who passed through my husband's class attended KSU. Kent has had to battle a very specific image for a long time....31 years to be precise. Who doesn't automatically think about May 4, 1970 when they think of Kent? (Incidentally, 5/4/70 was the very day that my mother-in-law found out she was having twins!!! Fortunately she was at the OB's office and nowhere near campus at the time. I guess my father-in-law was running up and down the street with a shotgun.) Kent was thought of throughout the 70s as a hard-core hippie school (the greek composites of the era further demonstrate this. A chapter was lucky to have 10 members.) In the 80s, a push came to change that position. Enrollment skyrocketed and when my mom was getting her MA in the late 80s there were over 30K students and the greek system was huge. For me, going to Kent was as natural as breathing. My mom didn't start college until I was 4....I can still remember walking around campus with her, sometimes at night, with her friends (she was drawn to young people always, and they gravitated toward her) and just loving it. This was not long after May 4 and there were still a lot of activist events there.....they had "Tent City" when they were going to destroy a beautiful, tree-covered hill to build the new gym. All these hippies camped out on the hill with their families....it was unreal. I hated going to the babysitter while my mom was in class, so finally she just started taking me along. The professors loved me because I was so good (not to mention breathtakingly adorable!!!LOL)...I would pretend to take notes, or draw pictures for them, or sometimes just listen. I was always fascinated by history and art (two subjects she took a lot.) In fact, one of her favorite professors, with whom she developed a friendship (that turned into a mutual love interest but this isn't the time or place for that!!!!) was MY professor a couple of times!!! I actually skipped out on orientation week, because I knew campus like the back of my hand and I felt no need to waste my time.
Brent and I are supporters of Kent. His grandfather taught there for 30 years and won the distinguished teaching award and the president's medal. Before he died he endowed an award to be given to a deserving business professor every year and my husband always presents it. He belongs to the Blue & Gold club, and he is a season ticket holder to the basketball games (ranked #15 nationally......yea!!!!!!) I would love nothing more than to have my kids go there. (Brent would like it too, but he has dreams of them going through Annapolis too.....big Navy family.)
By the way, did you guys see the thread on Indiana rush???? Good lord, 1600 rushees!!!!!!!! I can't even imagine!!!!!!!!! (They do it over 2 semesters!!!!!):eek:

Erika, LOVED your post. How interesting. I always think of CSNY
(Crosby Steels Nash and Young) when I think Kent State. I must applaud your Mom...That takes a LOT to "keep on keeepin' on"
when you have a child.

I HAVE been following that thread...unbelievable!

amazing....
 

to echo, justamom....
super post. i remember kent state when i was little and it all happened. i considered it when i was looking.
justa...your baby should be just about ready to be initiated, yes?
cheers and happy thanksgiving
mmcat
:p :D

I think that it is good that moms are dropping by with their daughters. All chapters take legacies seriously and my chapter always documents a damn good reason for releasing one.

It can be very irritating as an active to never hear from an alum until her daughter goes through rush. Then we are expected to be chomping at the bit to offer her a bid. If mom isn't active why would her daughter be? Women need to ask themselves "Would any of the actives at the nearest chapter vaguely recognize me from alumnae activities?" or "Do any alums in my area know I'm an XYZ?" If the answers are definitely "NO" then the woman should think about reconnecting with an alum group or helping the nearest chapter. We need active alums so we try to pledge girls who will be active after graduation. If a mom is not active then we often assume that her daughter will not be either.

I'm probably preaching to the choir. Anyone on GC is more active than the average alum.

I have NO IDEA when they get initiated! THAT GIRL! I swear she is like "Late Breaking News". I have to laugh though because sometimes she acts like she told me and I KNOW she didn't!

They did go on a retreat so it is probably getting close. I know she's looking forward to wearing the letters...wasn't that the GREATEST feeling- the FIRST time you could put them on!

lyrelyre-Only those that "know" go to that extreme. One of the Mom's told me it was time for her to get involved since her daughter was going through in a year. We have some nice girls who will sign up and I expect quite a few will be placed. LOTS of legacies again. My son's class has so many boys who are legacies-most to K-Sig, SAE and Sigma Chi. I think SAE was closed down. Anyway, the next two years will be really interesting and exciting since I know so many of the kids.

born and bred to be an aggie
 

As Justamom said you know from birth whether you will be a longhorn or an Aggie. I remember watching the A&M football games at my grandfathers house in the 70's-he graduated from A&M in 1923. I knew from the time I was 4 years old that i was going to A&M and eventually become a veterinarian. If I have kids they hopefully will be aggies too:D

Justamom.....does this mean you have a little boy going through all this in the near future????? If so, relax, it isn't nearly as bad for the guys as it is for the girls....but still, I imagine down there even the fraternity rush is pretty intense. Sounds like you have the same family dynamics I do....the daughter and then the son just a couple years behind. Mine will only be one year apart in school so it will be a wild ride!!!

ERIKA, Yes, my son is a Junior this year. He NEVER had an interest (due to lack of fraternity interest in our area) but things have really changed this past year. With his sister involved, he had to listen to EVERYTHING during her rush, Now he hears about the "fun" stuff and he and his friends have decided to go through the process. It's funny, those guys look at the "trappings" the same as the girls do. He's heard about the KA's and their formal and thinks that's pretty neat (NOT HIS WORD-MINE) He also wants to know who has the highest GPA and of course they ALL are into the GQ image thing... He won't ask his sister directly-too cool for that, so I have to ask then and supply what info I can. It's pretty funny because he doesn't want to appear too interested.

Yep-we have just about the same situation. Had it not been for a school transfer in Kindergarten-public to private (with the classrooms being full I had to keep him in Kindergarten twice) he would be a SENIOR!!! Never lets me forget it when it comes to curfew requests... H2OOT said it's competative between the "top" houses for the guys, but more relaxed amoung the other fraternities. I'll find out soon enough.

I will be a lonely old lady when my baby boy leaves...Thank goodness my Hubby and I are FRIENDS as well as "loves". I might otherwise spend my time pushing a shopping cart along deserted streets!

Awwww.....I can't imagine ever being there but then I couldn't imagine the day coming when I would be driving to my first parent-teacher conference--and that day came yesterday!!!!

It will be interesting if my kids do go to Kent. I will probably still be involved with Chi O at the advisor level or at least with house corp or alumnae action. So Paige is going to feel a little legacy pressure there. The other chapter that she is a legacy (3 ways) to is not on our campus (AGD) so that won't be an issue. Coulter will have a different situation. Not only were his daddy and his grandpa Delts, but his great-grandpa was a SigTau and his uncle (daddy's identical twin) was a SX. Paige will probably go Delta Gamma and Coulter SAE!!!!!!!:rolleyes:

Just out of curiosity, on what are those predictions based?

Yeah I guess I kind of left out the background info, didn't I? :p Just before my husband and I got together, he was dating a DG and I was dating an SAE....SAE was the main rival of the Delts at KSU. I had a knack of either dating exes of DGs or getting pursued by guys (usually SAEs!!!!) that DGs were interested in....(I guess we have similar tastes!!!!) so I was not the most popular girl around their house. One of my SAE exes and his cronies made disparaging remarks about my husband to me, so things were pretty awkward there. It was all just ugly.

The good news is that in the end Brent got to be friendly with some of my cooler SAE buddies. And I ended up becoming very close friends with a DG, who actually HAD been a very close friend of Brent's ex!!!!!

Actually, I must edit my post.....now that I think about it if they find out that they're OUR kids, they'll get dropped by those houses so fast heads will spin. That's ERIKA'S daughter????AAAAGH!!! LOL:D

Erika....
 

Do the Chi-O's and Delts at Kent State seem to hang out with each other more than with other houses? You've mentioned that your husband is a Delt; did a lot of KSU Chi-O's end up married to Delt brothers?

One of my best friends from high school was a Chi-O at Kent State (she graduated in '90, so I'm thinking she was probably before your time) and she was a little sister at Delta Tau Delta and I seem to remember spending a lot of time with her and her sisters at the Delt house when I would visit her.

Tracy, I pledged in '90 but I still might know who your friend is....no I was one of the few Delt girls. There were a couple of Delt girlfriends, including a Delt Sweetheart who ended up pledging Chi O my last year, and a group of the younger girls hung out there then because of them. There always seemed to be different "phases......" My freshman year, for instance, we hung out with the Delts and the Phi Delts. The Alpha Phis had a virtual monopoly on the Sigma Chis until my senior year. The DGs hung out with the SAEs and to a lesser degree the Delts. Then my sophomore year, we started to get very tight with the SAEs (though there was still a very strong Phi Delt contingent.) The SAEs were pretty popular with the girls in general, most of the sororities had little SAE groupie cliques. But the DGs kind of moved in on the Phi Delts that year. We were still tight with SAE my junior year, but some of the girls started infiltrating the SX house. Then my senior year the older XOs were all about SX and the Alpha Phis had moved on to the SAEs. Strange. After Brent and I graduated the Delts really took a nosedive. They had been top 3 for a long time and all of a sudden things really got shaken up. SX stayed strong but SAE ended up getting booted for a few years and Phi Tau and DU took over as the top houses. I think the Delts are bouncing back now, they seem to have a good group of guys but their numbers are weak. Back when Brent was an active they were just awesome....they were the big strong jock guys who had fantastic parties and loved to fight.

It really is interestng how the line ups change. That's why I believe a couple of great pledge classes (I used to think ONE, but now I think you need two in a row) can turn things around.

Do you guys think it's easier to build up or fall down? There is some speculation about next years rush and who may have an easier or more difficult time due to their recent pledge classes. Either way, it a slippery slope. From what I've gathered, so many say "When I was active XYZ was #1 but now we aren't so strong (or it goes the other way-they got stronger) It seems here that the only "untouchable" strong house is KKG, perhaps because of it's history.

Another question, do ALL sororities have a final vote prior to initiation? I don't recall AXO doing that, but I "heard" some girls have been released from their pledgeship and will not be initiated.
BTW, this is not connected to grades. This is one area that has both good and bad points.

It amazes me that I know MORE about Sorority life now than I did as an active!

I think if you are in a middle of the road house you can go either way-build up or fall both in my opinion would be easy

if you are in a weak house-just from seeing this at A&M it is pretty much impossible to build up and the 2 weak houses that were there are now gone (weak meaning very low numbers, rushees could usually tell who was weak as these houses had 2 rushess per rusher during rush)

voting
 

justamom-we don't have a vote as a chapter but the CRSB can vote to release a girl if she has broken too many rules or has proven herself to be undesirable. My chapter released 3 girls in this manner this year. Basically it is like depledging but at the chapter's discretion. When we went to this setup I was a bit worried but the chapter fully supported these three decisions. As far as the entire chapter voting I haven't heard of that in AXO.

That brings to mind another question: Do most chapters vote as an entire chapter whether to invite or release a PNM?

I think it is much easier to fall down than to build up. It's so hard to build up (especially with sororities I think) because the preconceived notions of a group are so ingrained in everyone's mind. Often you have many generations of family members going to the same university and there is so much pressure to be an XYZ or an ABC because those have always been the "good" houses. In the end it all comes down to perception and even if a sorority winds a million awards it takes something very drastic to see the image of the house as changed. This is from my observation anyway...:)

My AOII daughter says that in her chapter, they do release girls who keep doing things that are undesirable for the chapter's reputation but they don't take an all-out vote on everyone. I guess it's involuntary depledging, just like we were able to do although we didn't while I was active.

Although one very good sorority at Arkansas released one of the other cheerleaders while I was there... seems she ran stark naked from her boyfriend's car into the sorority house. Too much, even in the wild seventies...
:rolleyes: