I agree with all of this post.

Add, to the bolded, the fact that blacks are more likely to be the "token" in an all white environment than whites are in an all black environment. So people are a lot less interested and impacted by something that is a lot less common. Plus, many whites feel as though there is no lasting effect to "mean words" because once they leave that context, they are back to being white, the power and numerical majority. We've discussed before, whites will often say "I don't care if I'm called a h****," etc because hurt feelings mean nothing in the grand scheme of things. If people can't keep whites from opportunities (denying membership into a high school or college group doesn't count) outside of that setting, it is just a momentary inconvenience rather than a life altering event.

I don't get that about El Paso. Why is everybody always bashing on Ft. Bliss and the BILLIONS of dollars they pump into this economy?

Don't ask me, I shred that girl a new one when she mentioned it. lol.

I haven't really heard any bashing about Ft. Bliss (i've heard comments about the military in general) but people are always gonna say something. I've learned to ignore, especially in this community, Mexicans are so ignorant most of the time.

Kind of funny in this thread.

ETA: my results from the Harvard thing: Your data suggests a slight automatic preference for Black people over White people
(or a pretty internalized fear of being thought of as racist since I think I have a slight automatic preference for White people actually.)

Your data suggests a moderate automatic preference for Barack Obama over John McCain (Sure, but give me Sarah Palin vs. Obama and we'll see where that gets us.)

Eh. Well, it's true.

I've pretty much decided that I don't want to raise my children in this area. I don't want them growing up with the mentality I did. People here (family included) need to grow up and educate themselves more.

LEAVING EL PASO?? Where is the real eppie, and what have you done with her? ;)

Hahaha....i know it's like blasphemy! I need to venture out and "see the world" for myself! lol. We'll see what happens.

They are, generally speaking. And it is highly irritating. The justification is, usually, that because anyone who wasn't white had to endure much, much worse up until very recent times, it's "time to turn the tables". This makes me angry because what someone did before I was born is not my fault, so don't punish me for it.

It would be nice if eventually racism died out, but since it's been around since the dawn of time, it probably won't.

There isn't really anything to be done about it, though, except to lead by example...it isn't ok to make racist comments about anyone. So speak up when anyone of any origin makes a racist comment (not saying that you don't do that).

I guess I don't see what's "racist" about any of these terms - would "black girl" or "Christie" (I think that's the black Barbie doll?) or "chocolate/mocha" or "cocoa puff" or "looks like we're finally getting a fondue pot on campus" or "gospel choirs are like Kenny G for black people" really be racist? I mean, they'd be stupid and racially motivated, but that's not really the same thing as "racist" . . . maybe you picked a bad example, but I don't see how it connects with your conclusion. This is without getting into the fact that, although the movie probably sucked, it's fine to portray an 'outsider' being treated as such - in fact, it's probably good.

With that said . . . racial cracks against white people are "OK" (read: accepted) because they carry no power. It's just like why there aren't any 'slurs' against heterosexuals - it's not like there's been 'straight oppression' at any point. Hack comedians like to joke that blacks get February for Black History Month because whites get the other 11 months, but that's basically true, and it kind of explains something I think you're missing.

Here's the thing: most people (especially white people) think that the true pinnacle of racial equality will occur when people simply do not see color. This is kind of stupid, since it's almost impossible for it to happen. True equality will be equality in every way - such as making race-based jokes about white people, and removing the power from similar jokes about minorities.

Yeah...I really appreciate KSig RC.

Indeed.

Once people stop 'seeing' color, they will find something else to be prejudicial about.

In some cultures that frame of mind already exist.

Humankind has a habit of wanting validation.

We will always have a need to find a way to be distinguishable from someone else.

Dayum that's a deep comment on so many levels... :cool:

They do carry power because some "White people" find them offensive. I don't understand purposefully offending or hurting someone.

It's not that kind of power.

It doesn't matter what species of power, it still hurts people. I don't need a speech, before anyone gives on. I understand the difference. I don't understand that attitude that "white people" can just suck it. I don't understand hurting people on purpose.

Now you know how I feel as a Black woman sucking it, up...

No, sweetie. What you don't understand is what we're talking about.

I don't understand how KSig RC can say that racially motivated jokes or name-calling aren't considered racist. Racially motivated remarks are racist, no matter what race they are from or against. I don't think anyone would be ok with my walking up to them on the street or in the mall and saying "Hey there, Count Chocula" or sneering when they walk by and making some comment about fried chicken and koolaid. Negative comments about another race, gender, sexuality, nationality, etc...shouldn't be tolerated, and I don't find them at all amusing.
I think it's just as bad that people can't comment on someone's race or skin tone without others automatically saying they're racist. There's nothing wrong with identifying somone by saying "The blonde over there" or "The boy with the red hair"...but as soon as someone says "The black girl with the blue coat," people just think, "Oh, you aren't supposed to say stuff like that." Why not?

Well, let's try this via analogy . . . do misleading statements or actions constitute fraud?

Well, they could . . . or not. It depends on context, intent, injury, etc.

I'll start there - if that helps eliminate confusion, then we can talk about the rest.

Also - do people really need me to explain why being offended is not disempowering in and of itself? Really? How do you explain stand-up comedy?

The problem is different interpretations of the word "racist". If "racist" is used meaning anything which differentiates on the basis of race, that's one thing. If it means anything which an empowered group uses to demean or belittle an unempowered group on the basis of race, that's something more finely nuanced and obviously far different. Most of the "racial" disagreements I see here on GC seem to hinge on these two different designations. I'm not weighing in on it ("where angels fear to tread . . .") other than to point out that in order to discuss it you may wish to define your terms.

Just to be technical about it - here it is from Webster's - (I find it interesting that they only date it to 1933)


Main Entry: rac·ism http://www.merriam-webster.com/images/audio.gif Pronunciation: \ˈrā-ˌsi-zəm also -ˌshi-\ Function: noun Date: 1933 1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race 2 : racial prejudice or discrimination
— rac·ist http://www.merriam-webster.com/images/audio.gif \-sist also -shist\ noun or adjective

Is it possible to communicate without being condescending and rude? I do understand what I am talking about. I am not stupid. It is WRONG to treat someone badly because of their skin color. ANY term that hurts someone has power. And again, I do not understand why anyone enjoys hurting another person.

3 lefts may make a right, but two wrongs do not.

Two wrongs don't make a right, but it sho does make it even...
~Sistah Soulijah.

Being offended is not disempowering in and of itself. That you are right... Ultimately, people choose to be what they want to be. I choose to be pissed off on General Principle right now. It is what I do afterward that makes a difference...

I think the disconnect, from a psychological standpoint only, is that when you are hit from all different sides. Like a very bad country music song. My dog left me, the light cut off, there's not heat, and etc. Then when you least expect it, some says some chit out of the clear blue sky that is solely based on race, and it makes your world worse...

Unfortunately, we are going to see racism as a construct becoming a psychological issue, i.e. what happened to you is all in your head you crazy idiot... Then when some ugliness happens like that seen of Bradley Schlozman who worked in the US Civil Rights Division, you wonder, was I all that crazy or idiotic at all? :rolleyes:

Excuse me for thinking "getting even" isn't a good attitude to have. Getting even never ends.

You are right. It is an absolutely FOUL attitude to have... Define "attitude" legally? Revenge is not about ending things... It is about leveling everything where no one can play...

Doesn't mean I actually have that attitude. LOL... Used, just to make a point. IMO.

Ask me what I think and feel, I will be happy to let you know...

Which is what I said back on page three. We are not in disagreement here.

Take a deep breath and calm down.

Sure, go ahead, I'd be interested to know. Though forgive me for assuming that you believed what you posted.

Don't be condescending and we'll get along fine. Rudeness isn't going to inspire me to be particularly "sweet".

I get a bit prickly when people come at me like you have.

Bring the discussion over here if you must, but the insults didn't begin on this keyboard. I will give what I receive.

To be honest, I have not chosen to follow what you have been saying because I don't get into that logic. However, I was very impressed with KSigRC last comment, which I positively commented on.

When you pronounced that you do not understand the difference and preciousjeni as well as others say, we are not discussing the same thing, the only method we can use to get you to think before you post is something called a "shock and awe" method. Saying something asinine and paradoxical that you HAVE to think to make sense of it. Sometimes is works, sometimes it does not.

Now for some background. DS found the news article from another situation and he posted it over here.

Here is the actual article in Science Magazine. I do not get access to the entire articles anymore, so all I can see are the abstracts. From what I read, they have a rubric as to establish was is a blatant racist act vs. what is not??? IDK? Such as 1:10 times, when someone reports a racist act is it one? IDK? Since I cannot see their results, I cannot discern how they did that or add any professional validity of their methods. Nonetheless it raises the question, what do you do when you see an overtly racist act in this day and age, besides report it?

Overt acts are raising nooses in areas around schools... Outright shooting a black victim while arresting him and he is not resisting... Outright Not selling property to those who can obviously afford it because of their outward appearance... When you are a manger/director/boss and you call any professionally degreed person of color an "affirmative action hire"... To me that is racism...

I have no idea what keyboard was in use, but here is where the attack began. Whoever was using the keyboard at the time flew off the handle for no apparent reason.

I'm reminded of that thread "The Term African American." ;)

OMG... Let's not go there again... I don't have enough HCT-Triamterene or Atenolol to handle it anymore... LOL... Gawd, I'm old...

I do think before I post. The reason I get irritable is that I do not react kindly to being treated like an idiot because I believe in treating people nicely. I believe when making a personal post it is helpful to actually read what has been written.

I stated that I DID understand the difference. I do. I DO NOT understand the blatant use of slurs (racial, religious, gender-related, etc.) to hurt someone. I understand why people do it. I do not understand the appeal. It's just as sick to do it to a white person as a black person as a hispanic person as an asian person...etc.

As to the second part of your post I am fortunately rarely in a situation where I experience or witness any truly nasty examples like those you listed. (I haven't in fact witnessed or experienced any of your particular examples, though I have seen things that I feel are blatantly racist). I, like most people, frequently hear slurs. Personally, I attempt to respond in a way that, at the least, prevents the person from doing it in front of me again, but hopefully at least makes them think before they do it at all. That's the best anyone can do. I do not say it to bolster my ego, but because it is an area that I feel strongly about. I believe everyone has some prejudice in some area. That's from personal experience, not statistics. But I believe it.

That wasn't an attack. And note I used the word "insult", "big girl".

This is so clear and concise that nothing else needs to be said.

But I will add that "intent" is not a necessary condition in racism and racial and ethnic discrimination.

Firstly, I am a strong believer of that people choose the way they want to feel. I admit there are "trigger words" and believe me, I have been triggered... And I cannot tell you how to handle it...

Secondly, people say that because you are a newbie on GC. You came here very opinionated and we never heard of you before or seen you before. So, folks are either whatever or combative. I'd say more of the latter, IMO. Not only do you have to think you should wait, too.

Welcome to the Web 2.0...

I don't understand why people use slurs to describe other people or themselves. I don't see the appeal either. But as a biomedical research scientist, I can guess that on average, aside from the sociological underpinnings, environment and cultural things people do, the reason is also likened to Tourette's Syndrome. People use these profane terms because they realize it is offensive and they are incapable of using any other term and a get a "kick" off of pissing people off. IDK? But, that is what the latest neuropsychatric research with fMRI is suggesting...

You will probably witness a lot more ignorance before you see the end of it. Most people are fearful of those cultures they do not understand or open to. So they say anything harmful.

Overtime the more harmful they get, the more it is enacted upon the "target group". Then the targets fight back and it comes as a shock to a lot of people. The reality is, everyone ignores what happened in the first place and how the deep rooted feelings of ill will germinated and were left to fester...

Eventually, all things end over time. This is just one of those things that are ending...

Only because in your world, you're right and the rest of us are wrong.

If you're referring to my use of "little girl," that's what I call female children who throw a tantrum. If you act like a child, you'll be addressed like a child.