Well, I don't really think k-12 education should be federally funded, and I think college and university funding should be strictly tied to some national goals.

The only k-12 school funding that makes sense to me is when military bases put a big burden on the local schools without really paying into the property tax base. (And I think that the free and reduced price lunch program is probably as especially effective way to make sure kids in need get fed.)

About the planetarium, it's not that we shouldn't fund it; it's just a question of who should pay. (Three million is a figure that could be handled in a state budget. The Illinois state budget was apparently about 65 Billion for 2008 http://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/pu...nor/budget.pdf) It doesn't make sense to me, unless there's some original research involved (which probably isn't related to the projector honestly, even if there is some going on at the facility), to fund a city or state planetarium with federal funds, particularly if it was an earmark stuck on to a different bill rather than something that was debated on its merits.

Exactly - Jono, you're making quite a logical leap.

Dude it's a planetarium. To paraphrase a smarter man than me, how many kids have textbooks that refer to the civil rights movement as "Trouble Ahead", and we're using a planetarium as an example of support for the sciences? Jesus - I worked in a tier-1 gene therapy lab and spent 55% of my time digging for grants. This is nonsense, no matter what Jono wants to use as his angle.

Sorry, but I didn't think I had an angle. I was just explaining how the debate changed my opinion of both candidates.

People may want to check out the Obama tax cut calculator on his website.

According to the calculator, under his plan my tax cut would be:

$1225
McCain tax savings
$150

Plus, under Obama, you may be eligible for

* 50% tax credit for up to $1000 for retirement savings

I'm saving this for posterity so that when Obama wins, I can check back to see how that worked out for you.

There's no reason why it shouldn't right? The Democrats who are behind him will control congress, so you should be able to expect this in what? two years?

I'm saving it for the same reason! I do know that my Bush tax cut came to exactly $150. This year is a total anomaly for me because of having to pay taxes on my mom's investments. Next year will just be straight again though. No huge charitable donations, no huge income changes (probably no income change as the rumor is, no raises coming next year), the only other variable is the mortgage interest.

Obama tee
 

Ha ha.. I saw a girl wearing this at the mall today:

http://rlv.zcache.com/obama_im_votin...2582an_125.jpg

I suppose it is possible that we'll see the Obama cuts and he'll deliver the programs. We'll just see even bigger deficit spending*.

What I don't see happening is raising enough money to pay for everything he's promising.

*Deficit spending is something that really bother people when the other party does it but not so much when it's their own party doing it for "good" reasons.

I agree and have voiced that as my main concern with him. Realistically, you can't do it all in 4 years or even 8 years. Some of his aims seem very long term but if we make even baby steps toward them, I'm good with that. Everybody thought Kennedy was nuts when he said we were going to send a man to the moon. He didn't live to see it, but we did it. Some people still didn't believe we'd done it even when we did. I think we have to dream big but take smaller steps to get there. Medicare prescription coverage is a good example. The current plan really doesn't help most seniors, but it's been a step and hopefully it will continue to improve. Reagan dreamed of the Star Wars defense program which led to some of the anti-ballistic missiles that exist today. People laughed at Reagan for that one, but some good ideas came from it and have protected some of our troops from being killed. We can go around saying "We can't do that" but we definitely can't do it if we don't try. Will any President ever get their whole agenda in place and fully functioning exactly the way they hoped? No. It doesn't mean they can't take steps toward it. I think that was the biggest problem with Hilary's health care plan. It was too much change too fast and just got shot down and dropped. But SCHIP was created in 1997 to at least get more kids insured. Medicare prescription coverage is a start, but is not far enough. My mom was told she had to resign from her job as a bank teller in 1961 as soon as she became visibly pregnant. At that time, nobody would have predicted the Family and Medical Leave Act which guarantees a new mother that her job will be held for her if she's gone less than 12 weeks for maternity leave. It's a step! We take these steps, little by little and eventually, things change. Little by little, women are shattering the glass ceiling. Someday we will probably have equal pay for equal work. Obama wants to see it happen during his term, but it probably won't. If the difference continues to lessen, then he's making progress.

40 years after Martin Luther King and Bobby Kennedy were assassinated and 41 years after riots destroyed Detroit, we have an African American man who has a very good chance of becoming President. If we don't dream big, things don't change.

Dreaming big is one thing; tax-cut calculator seems like a promise of something that ought to be tangible. And delivered in one administration.

What do you feel like Obama has offered on the level of going to the moon or King's dream or the star wars defense system?

Since I'm cynical about politicians, I'd rather have a Contract with American type plan rather than a big dream, assuming that the plan was made reality.

The problem is, it's a government of the people, by the people and for the people. We never know what crisis will arise with the people and therefore, a contract is not doable. We didn't intend to get involved in WWII until Pearl Harbor was bombed. We didn't predict 9/11. We didn't predict Katrina (well, some people did predict that it would happen eventually but.. it's kind of like The Big One that will hit California, impossible to be prepared for on a daily basis). We didn't predict the OK City bombing. There are too many other players, too many unknowns to say "I guarantee that this will happen". Even though neither candidate would be straight about what would be cut due to the bailout, we know that something is going to have to be delayed.

I see every person in this nation having equal access to reasonable health care as a very big dream. I see the goal of being energy independent by 2020 as a goal on par with going to the moon. I think his goals for education, especially secondary education is big. (Create the American Opportunity Tax Credit: Obama and Biden will make college affordable for all Americans by creating a new American Opportunity Tax Credit. This universal and fully refundable credit will ensure that the first $4,000 of a college education is completely free for most Americans, and will cover two-thirds the cost of tuition at the average public college or university and make community college tuition completely free for most students. Recipients of the credit will be required to conduct 100 hours of community service.)