But, in their context, the move to have "dry" houses is an apt analogy. It was smart of many of the "white" NIC groups to make these programs voluntary, although there has been a lot of resistence to them.

First of all, congratulations to the Bruhs for stepping up and re-embracing the ESSENCE of the pledge process while instituting appropriate risk management guidelines.

Second, Senusret, I have been thinking about this life long learning approach. Initiation should NOT be the last learning step. I believe that there should be a formal process to move from collegiate to alumnae membership. I believe that there should be a formal movement from NEO to Pro. There should also be formal learning milestones throughout our lifetimes.

For a more constructive response to your conception of a values-based incorporation process for Greek-letter organizations. I agree in spirit with everything you've laid out. In fact, in many ways there are "unofficial" prophyte ceremonies practiced. The problem is that they usually are not fully integrated into the values-based scheme you epsouse. And some sort of ceremony for those transitioning to graduate status may be helpful; but how that would be received by those being transitioned is "iffy". Some see graduate status as a diminution of the level of commitment and ardor for the organization. Maybe this is tied into the all-too-often stereotypical views about what the fraternity is and what social and personal transformations which occur as a result of becoming a member. It's on this deeply symbolic level, though, not so much the programmatic one--like all rites-of-passage processes--that young men and women are impacted. That a much better job could be done by shepherding neophytes to embrace fully the principles and precepts of thier organization is not even an issue.

I do have a real concern. I do think there needs to be more social, cultural and life skills remediation incorporated into these programs. Let's face it, the institutions which support fraternal social values--family, community, church and other support systems--are not as healthy as they should be in out society, esp, in the African American community. And the fact that young people are bombarded with consumeristic and individualistic messages in popular culture from the cradle means that there may be social deficits which have to be addressed. Much of this has to do with selection, which the new Lampados Program emphasizes; but it's not the '40s and '50s. The socialization of those with positive support systems now is not what it once was "back in the day" but many of our intake programs operate as if it was in a previous era.

I'm in agreement that we've got to do better; but with the constraints of incraesingly hostile college administrations and risk management issues on ther one hand and those who yearn for the halcyon days of old when they pledged for a whole year and did everything short of killing a pledge (Brothers made in the '30s and '40s have related these to me), solutions that will satisfy all won't be possible.

So by remediation, do you mean there should be classes and workshops on etiquette, how to tie a tie, how to enjoy the opera, etc?

The one thing I haven't "worked out" in my mind is whether alumni milestones should be commemorated organically (weddings, births of children, etc) or whether it should be some sort of ongoing incentive-based system (such as a combination of years of service and active participation).... or all of the above.

Well, since it did not happen with my line or recent lines from my chapter, there should be something written to actually enforce this rather than make it simply tradition.

Yes, etiquette--personal and business, communication skills,etc. But it's even deeper, having to do with social skills that are essential for the healthy functioning society--things that I took for granted growing up as a black Southerner. And male-female relationships, STDs,etc.

I disagree. Not everyone is of the same faith or any faith. To mandate that someone attend a church service is a violation of that person's rights.

Yes, but on a volunteer basis.

As I agree that it should be.

I would have had major problems being asked or expected to attend a Christian church service as part of my intake process.

If memory recalls, we attended church together on a voluntary basis. We so happened to all be of the Christian faith. Since there were different denominations among us, we attended services that were nondenominational. Good experience.

As an aside: People also have to remember the difference between voluntary and "voluntary." Don't tell people they have a choice if they realistically don't and will be treated differently if they opt out.

Your response reminds me of a menacing, sarcastic refrain we would constantly hear while I was on line: 'You ain't gotta take this s@$t!'

This reminds of an incident at a District Council meeting I attended when I lived in the Los Angeles area. An undergrad came to the meeting dressed in street clothes (a nice pair of jeans and a shirt) and he slouched in his chair when he sat down. The chair stopped the meeting and reminded him that the attire for the meeting was business (suit and tie) and then and the Brothers went on to speak to him about how to conduct oneself in a business context and to be a proud, black professional man.

And I had a long conversation the other day about acculturation issues and "shifting" with a Brother in my present chapter who struggled with this. What helped him resolve this was his LB. His LB, who is a VP at TIAA-Cref in NYC, is an "owt Bruh." He'd never seen him outside of a Fraternity or social context. When he saw him in his business environment, he thought that this was a different person. This helped him resolve some of his ambivalent feelings surrounding some of things he'd faced. The fraternal context is a perfect place to broach this issue (and others!)

Yayyyy us in this thread two years ago. We could have saved Greekdom if they had listened to us. :(

lol

One of my fav threads. I was just referencing this program a few weeks ago in a convo with a Soror.