Aw, come on now, leave 'em alone. I did look at their site and hey, I saw sperries and croakies and polos and khakis and collared shirts and even guys shooting guns. So that passes the mustard, right? And they always seem to have cute girls around them so they can't be doing too bad. If he wants to make a rushee feel welcome to come by during rush, then more power to them. That's called opportunistic marketing, not a bad thing for an organization in a competitive market seeking growth, and skills he'll use later in life. Go on about your business there, ATO, good work, don't let the fratties at other schools get you down.

I, also, saw hilfiger polos, cargo shorts, and big sausage fest on a water slide.

LOL. See? Different audience, different prism, I guess.


ETA: I also meant to put in my post above that they seem to do a lot of service and philanthropy, which is commendable. I'm not sure where that falls on the "fratty" scale, but regardless, it's impressive and it's what groups with manpower and brainpower should be doing, in addition to being awesome and revered and dressed right and all that.

Whatever happened with ATO at State?

Yes, I've seen the thread. :confused: Are you trying to equate the "nationals and their awards are useless" with my statement that a group of healthy, able and fortunate young people are right to put that combined power to good use for their fellow man? Because I think they're two different things. Not caring about your national's policies or end-of-year awards has nothing to do with giving a group credit for contributing something. And to try to make that seem "uncool" would reflect poorly on those doing so.

As far as service. A chapter can win every accolade possible, but at the end of the day, they could still be a group of social misfits.

Since we're quoting me, I'll chime in on this. Doing community service isn't what makes a chapter good, and it doesn't make a chapter bad.

Most/all IFC houses weren't formed to be community service groups (I know some other groups are, but that's not what we're discussing), so no, performing community service isn't one of the big things to judge them on.

On the other hand, as a man of character, you should see some responsibility to do something benefiting the community, particularly if it is something as easy as getting drunk and going to a philanthropy event where the $5 you pay to get in and the $12 you pay for a t-shirt go to a good cause.

Balancing the two, yes, it is possible to be a top-tier house and not participate in community service, and no, doing a lot of community service will not make up for other short-comings with a house.

So to conclude, if you feel that it is your responsibility to do something good for your community, you should probably do it for the good attention it brings to you if nothing else, but no it is not at all one of the things that defines what houses are top-tier.

This is what I was talking about.

Not this -
or this -
I'm not assigning "tier" to anything service-related, just pointing out that doing good for your fellow man is a good thing no matter what, and while it may not make someone 'cooler' in your eyes, it certainly shouldn't make them 'less cool'. And the next time one of you bristles in your ultra-conservative views at the idea of the government using taxes to fund agencies to provide human services and gives the argument that private citizens can donate directly and provide those services themselves, I'm going to remind you that you have a house full of healthy, smart and apparently well-off guys that could be out there making a difference and showing the government how it could privatize social services.

And one last thought, I get why you guys go after others that go after you, your school, your region of the country, your dress code, etc., but why go after a chapter at a school other than yours that has nothing to do with you or your brotherhood and who didn't come on and say something untoward first? We get the tier thing, really, we do. And everyone knows it's awesome at the top and all that, but keep in mind, there'd be no "top tier" without the other tiers to compare it to. So just because you're where you want to be doesn't mean the other guys aren't where they want to be, because they obviously wouldn't do well with you guys in your houses anyway. But why spit off the balcony for sport? (and yes, Nate, I'm talking to you)

I see.

To brendan10013, do not be afraid to rush at Miss State. I am well acquainted with the greek system and know many of the people involved. While many of the Greeks there are from MS and the surrounding states, you have to take into account that the majority of the student body is from that area so naturally many of the greeks are local. The best advice I could give you is go in with an open mind. If you have crackerbarrel's mentality that it is a redneck school, then I would have to say that your chances are slim. Who would want to pledge someone with that attitude? If you are a cool guy and are genuinely interested in going greek, I really think you will have no problem finding your place in the greek system.