I agree, I thought you were responding personally to him.

You've lost all credibility. FSU Pikes is one of the highest-achieving fraternities in the nation. Check out this page for proof... http://www.fsupikes.com/chapterachievements.htm
They've won 6 consecutive Smyth awards from their National Fraternity and you say they are not "top-tier" at FSU? They've won the all sports trophy all but one year since their 2001 recolonization and you say they are not "top-tier". Are you nuts?

My chapter at Northern Illinois www.SigmaNuNIU.com is a top 5 out of 15 fraternities in just 4 semesters after our recolonization. Two of the last three student government presidents have been a Sigma Nu. We've been #1 or #2 in GPA each of the last 4 semesters. We are the 5th largest fraternity in just 4 semesters. To say that a colony "is going to suck for a pretty good period of time" is just silly to say. It's simply not true.

I'm going to chalk up your perceptions to the likelihood that you are young and have limited perspective and experience with Greek affairs. I've been Greek for over 20 years, worked for my national organization, traveled and been a chapter advisor for over a decade and was the primary alumnus spearheading our recolonization effort.

We've got new chapters all over the country that are reaching critical mass and becoming top chapters on their respective campuses.

Recent (June 25, 2008) article about Delta Tau Delta re-colonizing at Kansas. They will be housed, and reportedly met their goal for chapter GPA last semester:

http://www.kansan.com/stories/2008/jun/25/delta/

FSU Pike was underground as the "firemen" for the entire length of their suspension, that is why they are the exception. Has your chapter at Kansas been underground? I doubt that your nationals would tolerate it... from what I've heard they are some of the most controlling out of all of the IFC fraternities.

You're a Yankee... you wouldn't understand why FSU Pike isn't considered top tier.

Name-calling is an easy way to identify who has won and who has lost the arguement. Perhaps you can explain such things to a "yankee" like me. Looks like the Pikes at FSU pretty much dominate in all measurable areas. Where am I wrong?

You WOULD post a link up from the website of "one of the highest acheiving" fraternities in the nation. Dont you think if they were THAT damn good they would've updated the website more often than umm.......FOUR YEARS ago? I think that Phi Gam and myself would have a better opinion than any of the people that have posted on this thread bc we are a part of greeklife here at FSU and its not like we are hating on PIKE (I have plenty of friends that are pikes). Yes they are a "good" fraternity but if you have 23 fraternities on a campus there are going to be plenty of those. I would consider "top tier" as top 5......and they dont make the cut. The only reason they are recognized now is bc they have one of the biggest houses on campus and too big a number......thats it.

OK, I am old, and a northerner (not a Yankee since the Pirates just BEAT them last night LET'S GO BUCS!!) and I'm going to play devil's advocate.

Winning awards from your national fraternity, your school's administration or accolades that often come easiest to the group with the most manpower (i.e. intramurals - of course you can get a good intramural team w/ more guys to choose from) doesn't necessarily make you the best or most popular fraternity where it counts, in the eyes of the students and rushees.

They have won their National Fraternity top award (Smyth Award) six years in a row. I find it hard to believe they have accomplished this and are not a top 5 house at FSU.

How many times has FIJI won your national fraternities top award at FSU?

Not sure, I'm actually not too fond of my fraternity's nationals (Fun Police). I know we've won shit but its not something that we brag about. Pike is good at IMs because they give bids to kids just because of their athletic ability, even if they're huge tools. They have three high school all americans that play for them in football alone. I'm not going to talk bad about them for my entire post though. Pike here is (too) big and has a cool house but they aren't respected among the traditional fraternities. I'm not going to try to explain how things are different down here so you'll just have to take my word for it. Being big, winning IMs and national awards, and slaying a bunch of TCC girls is probably fun and all but there's intangibles to being top tier that they don't have.

They might have been the best or in the top 5 but NOT ANY MORE. They won all those awards 4+ years ago. Yea they do good in IM's but so do alot of other fraternities, what else do they do?

And no FIJI here hasnt received our nationals top award, but we have numerous other awards from our nationals and the university. but we're not talkin about FIJI @ fsu.

like you said top tier is based on the students opinion and the other members of greeklife....... Its not as "blessed from god" as you may think

National Awards (particularly THE top-house) generally mean the exact opposite, that you almost certainly aren't a top-tier house. If you are doing all the stuff that keeps your nationals happy I can 100% guarantee that you aren't having nearly enough fun.

I know as a Yankee and someone that loves their nationals apparently you are going to disagree with me, but the absolute best houses are generally those that are a big pain in the side of their nationals. They refuse to institute any of the new national "suggestions" which completely change what it means to pledge or be in a fraternity, they are generally in and out of trouble with the school for things like unregistered parties, and the nationals would love to pull their charter, but they can't because it's a 85+ year old chapter that has some of the best alumni support of any active group in the fraternity and is generally seen as one of the flagship houses for that organization.

This post is 91% in line with mine.

Winning some national trophies is not indicative of top tier.

Generally it means you're somewhere up north, you cave to nationals, and you're probably upper-middle tier there.

The best chapters generally get no recognition from their nationals and wouldn't have it any other way.

The only excellent Sigma Nu chapter in the SEC/ACC is Ole Miss', that I can think of. The Arkansas one isn't terrible anymore.

edit: And I'm in over 91% agreement with CB/Phi Gam/etc.

well it seems like we have come to the conclusion that just bc you've got trophies, it doesnt mean that you're one of the best. So Theta Dancer....you can tell your brother that when the fraternities start filling his ear full of "we've won this" crap to just let it run out the other ear and actually rush for the right reasons.(ie. if he feels comfortable at the house, gets along with the brotherhood, if they have things that appeal to HIM, etc)