Another great thing is the ability to boycott a Dixie Chicks album because you disagree with them going to a foreign country and voicing disapproval with our president.

They got slammed because of 1) the timing of their comments as 9-11 and the war were relatively fresh and 2) the political alignment of their fan base who felt they were being saturated with liberalism and anti-American sentiments.

Of course this view isn't limited to nonwhites. However, the reason why understanding black patriotism is an issue is because of the belief that whites can express certain viewpoints and, in most but not all contexts, be called critical and reflective whereas blacks are called ungrateful (Pat Buchanan said it best :p) and unpatriotic. This is why the Black Church and other pillars of the black community have been a political, economic, and social strong force. This is why Jeremiah Wright, for example, was able to expouse certain viewpoints behind the pulpit, although not every Black pastor chooses to use the pulpit in that manner. But using it as such is common place and Wright's recent and old comments wouldn't have been a topic of much discussion if it had not been for his relationship with Obama.

...you did say "arguably," so I'll ask you to expound -- how do you arrive at the conclusion that Obama's love of country is somehow "contingent" on progress? It seems to me that Obama's thesis has been that despite its halting dance with race relations, he yet finds the nation enobling, becuase it's given him the advantage and opportunity he enjoys today.

...also, as to your "contingency" argument, if this were the case, are you suggesting that would somehow be wrong, or "less than" any other expression of love of country?

You know in some places...you would be accused of having a 'chip' on your shoulder...or being an 'angry black woman."

Yeah, I was feelin' this.

Yes, you piss me off all the time! :D :p :rolleyes:

I am looking for that full quote, please let me know if you find it.

I don't even know the name of the man who said it and I probably added a descriptive. I think the only way to find it would be to listen to the entire links to the show from Baisden's site.

I try....;)

Dr Michael Eric Dyson

I didn't even know he was a guest on the show that day because I caught it mid-discussion. Thanks.

Hey sorry I didn't get around to this until now.

Your assessment of Obama may be exactly correct. I don't really arrive at any conclusions, I have no idea what Barack's motivations are or how sincere his affection is.

But, I think it is reasonably valid for people to wonder about his love for this country when he's so focused on progressive politics. Actually, this is true for any far left "progressive," not just Obama. I think we all look at America, or should, and see things that could make the country better. But if you're someone who possesses arguably-radical ideas about what America should be, and most of your expressions of affection refer to that, people who love America the way it is may question that.

Ideally we'd all look at slavery or racial discrimination and recognize that shifting away from these things, or at least making strides in the latter, are good changes that have made America better. But is infringing on the free market good? That is a lot more disputable. Both sides are presumably patriotic, they just love America for different reasons. So yeah, I think it is reasonable for someone to say "well, do you love America now, or do you just love the progress we've made and what you think it'll be like after?" I wouldn't say that is my view of Obama, but people who are staunchly opposed to his vision of America are likely to ask such questions.

Lets say he does only really love what America could be, is that less patriotic? I dunno, patriotism is something I have trouble wrapping my brain around. I certainly would adamantly disagree with him, but there are plenty of patriots who I think would destroy America. Personally I'm not really concerned about his patriotism, it is much too broad a concept. I don't really care if he loves his country if i think his vision of that country is fundamentally opposed to mine.

It see that many do not know history?

Blacks fought on both sides of the Civil War.
Blacks became known as buffalo soldiers as the protected the West duiring the Indian Wars.

Harrys S Truman edicted that Blacks in WWII were able to finght and have equal rights in the Military.

The Tuskagee Air Men were one of the most highly decorated fighting squardrons in WWII.

A lot of people know this but it doesn't change this discussion.