I challenge that proposal. One of my best friends is a girl. We aren't dating, we haven't had sex, we won't have sex (I don't feel strong enough of a sexual chemistry between us) but we make out all the time. It's just fun and it's college. We both sleep with other people and there's practically no jealousy or anything like that. We're friends with a spark of shallow attraction that has no deeper meaning.

You're gunna blame a guy for considering his sexual options? Who do you think he is? Jesus?

That's not platonic. :)

You'll understand what I mean when you finally have an adult relationship with a significant other. That "this is my platonic friend that I make out with all the time" excuse won't work unless you're swingers.

Yes and he would blame me for the same. There are emotions and potential actions that go into even "considering" sleeping with someone. That's more than a passing thought.

But we're also 30+ and feel like we've "been there done that" with most of this silliness. You either do or don't, at this point.

Co-sign with Chaos, and Chief, fyi, your make-out partner likes you. She's most likely sleeping with other people to try to act casual and get your attention, but women think much differently about these things than men do. She probably does have feelings for you, whether you do for her or not. Tread lightly or you may really end up hurting her.

Well, surprise surprise, I feel that men and women can equally have casual relationships like the one Chief describes. I don't assume the woman likes him because, to be honest, his characteristics may pale in comparison to those of the other men that she's also dealing with. Men and women get into casual relationships for a number of reasons, including just passing time until something better comes along or until they're ready to make a decision on who to choose.

But if Chief was to actually be in a monogamous relationship with someone, not an open relationship, this person shouldn't be tolerant of his not-so-platonic dealings with others. That includes emotional and physical cheating, the appearance of cheating, and placing yourself in compromising situations. Don't trust it.

me? monogamous relationship? no way jose =P

I agree here, but it depends on what it was.

Also, my original post wasn't referring to my relationship, I just thought it would be something to chat about. This is happening to a classmate of mine who's living with her bf and engaged to be married to him. I think she's too young, but who am I to tell her that. I don't think he should have gone to dinner with his co-worker, but I don't think she should just dump him for going either.

I would appreciate the honesty and we definitely wouldn't be over. But we'd be re-evaluating a couple of things, tightening up some restrictions and clarifying the fact that private dinners are for me and only me. Who knows, the whole thing might dissipate--the thrill will probably dull once the girlfriend knows. I'd stick it out, but he'd better watch himself and then set the other woman straight so that she knows the jig is up. It's one thing for him to get it together, but he also needs to make it clear to her that the boundaries have changed.

I disagree with those of you who said you would give this low down joker a 2nd chance. This applies to a man and a woman, but since the OP is talking about a man, I'll talk about him.

First of all, he doesn't respect or value his relationship with this woman of his. You have to remember that your values are the architecture of who you are as a person. Your values are comprised of what you believe is most important in life, and how you conduct your life in accordance with these beliefs. I even believe that values are sometimes worth living or dying for, and are damn sure worth dating and breaking up over. That's why opening up your values are so critical in a relationship, even though they cover many aspects of your life beyond relationships.

Character is also important in a relationship. This joker doesn't have good character at all. You can tell a lot about character by how a person operates in the world. I think a lot of times people give trifling jokers like this a 2nd chance to keep from being alone. Having a fear of being alone makes you get involved in relationships that are not going to last. It also keeps you from being alone long enough to grow into a person who doesn't have to be in a relationship to be happy. I believe to be happy in a relationship, and to pick the kind of relationship that's going to be the kind you desire, you've got to be happy without one first. If you have to be in a relationship or married in order to be happy, then you are dependent, and you'll never be happy with whatever person you find. What happens here is the dependency keeps you from being selective enough to find the kind of person who will be good for you, or it can keep you from being able to fully realize a good relationship with a healthy person. When I say healthy, I mean a person with good moral character. Someone who respects and values themselves.

Some of you ladies mentioned that you respect his honesty. To me, what he did is not honest at all. OK, so he told her. Who cares? The fact of the matter is he still disrespected her, himself and the relationship. Never, ever commit yourself to someone who is incompatible when it comes to respecting the relationship, while at the same time trusting that they'll see the light and change.

Remember that values are a major part of a relationship, and a man or a woman who doesn't have any regarding his or her relationship is the wrong person to get involved with.

I'm aware of that. It could very well happen that way (and has happened that way to me). I understand that you can't always "tell" with a person, but I guess I'm thinking on my terms--it would take me knowing your heart and mind inside and out, to the point where I could see straight through you before I'd even consider marrying you. And I wouldn't be engaged to someone if I had any inkling that he'd go that way.

PB, there will come a time when EVERYONE will disrespect themselves, their partner, and their relationship. You will do it one day if you haven't already and, if you think you haven't, one of your past girlfriends might disagree.;) I have been tempted, realized I was wrong, and "tightened the boundaries" to make my committment stronger all the way up until we parted for other reasons. Does that make me a "joker with no values?" Nope. Ish happens and you learn from it and don't pull stuff like that anymore. You cannot possibly have a long-standing relationship where you will never flirt with temptation, accidentally or otherwise. Everyone in this world who has ever had a partner has, is currently, or will in the future disrespect what they have with another person, either because they meant no harm or because they knew better but thought the "20 was worth leaving the 80" so-to-speak. I would take that into account before deciding to leave who I have been convinced is the love of my life. Depending on how it goes, I might have to leave later, but for a few dinners before he just cut it off himself? No. Really, it's the "jokers" who can be left behind but I would hope that if this girl thinks highly enough of this guy to marry him, then he is not a "joker" but an upstanding guy who has proven himself worthy of some grace and that it doesn't take a cancelled wedding to deal with him. If it's that serious, then she needs to re-evaluate who she deems worthy of marriage.

You've made some valid points, but I don't agree with all of them.

christiangirl. Because of the very nature of human beings, relationships will be imperfect and there's no such thing as the ideal relationship. You are always going to be dating somone with flaws. But, remember, there are flaws you can live with, and those you cannot. Those ones that you can live with can teach you a lot about patience and acceptance, as well as intimacy and working through conflict. But serious character flaws can destroy and cripple the relationship. To me, what was said in the OP is a serious character flaw that destroys relationships by causing insecurities.

In a relationship, if you are dealing with a joker who hurts you, leaves you feeling bad about yourself, the relationship and hurts you in other ways, then you are dealing with things that you should not be allowing. If you're feeling a lot of bad things as a result of being with this person, let that be a sign that he isn't the right one.

Ultimately you'll get what you value. If you value a relationship where your man has been giving his time to another woman he has feelings for, rather it's over dinner or whatever, then do what you have to do to stop the destruction. I wouldn't get involved with a woman who gives her time to another man she has feelings for. If I was already involved with her, I would leave her and wouldn't look back.

Going to dinner with another woman/man where feelings are involved isn't flirting. I call that emotional cheating. CG, when I'm in a relationship, I don't flirt with other women, and if I have by mistake, or she feels that I have, I cut it off before it turns into something unsatisfactory. I value good things and say no to things that destroy. I don't see a woman that spends her time with another man who she has feelings for as the "love of my life."

Good luck to you.:)

This is where the disagreement lies. The statement would be true if we knew that the OP's friend is now insecure about her relationship. And, if she is, my opinion would still be different because we have different opinions about what constitutes a major character flaws, as well as what circumstances would breed insecurity. :)

If it were no big deal and she wasn't having some feelings of insecurity about it, then she probably wouldn't have shared it with the friend. I think she has a dilemma, she loves him enough to be engaged but would probably walk away if there weren't a wedding involved. I say couples premarital counseling is needed to get to the root of what is causing him to be so unsatisfied that he would act on his attraction by, effectively, dating this woman.

Since this thread got bumped, my former classmate is no longer with him, he cheated on her. Oh, and he cheated on her with the same girl mentioned in the original post from two years ago. Anywho, moving on to the other really old D&R threads our newest member keeps bumping.