I love being in an indoor clean air state.

COOL, how much more morality are we going to regulated in?:mad:

Oh, remember the Government professes that the NON Smokers will not pay for tax increases and the tobacco banners say it will help us.

Did anyone ever think of when all of us SINNERS quit this horribal adiction and the Billions of $$$$ are not collected where in teh hell is the tax money going to come from to make up for the loss of tobacco tax money?

How many thousands of people will lose their jobs and how in the hell do they pay for living?

Da, sorry dumb asses, YOU!:rolleyes:

I cannot afford to retire and if I do, my employee cannot work, he cannot pay his rent and buy food! He and his family starve as I have to kick them out of where they live!:rolleyes:

The thing I love most is do rightous people!

They are going to save me! Oh maybe save me from you all cause you are good!:D

This may be true (or also may not be), but it really has no effect on the overall 'market force' argument - it's simply not explicitly true to say that, if most people wanted bars to be smoke-free, they would already be smoke free.

There's no doubt your iron workers' local hang-out will be adversely affected, but that's not really relevant to the point I was making.

When I say "realize potential" for what would happen w/out smoking, I mean it in the sense that almost no bar owners have any reliable way to measure the effects of going to a non-smoking establishment, and as such the 'market' (as it were) can't really drive that way. You provide two exceptionally extreme examples, and even there only the iron workers example gives much surety.

Don't you think this amount might be, y'know, offset by:

a.) the fact that smoking will still occur, just not in bars or restaurants (see: smoking in NYC and Boston has not exactly ended)
b.) lowered public burden for smoking-related illnesses, especially in non-smokers or children of smokers?

Seriously, there's more to this argument than some nebulous economic hit to "the industry" or your store, Tommy - people die.

The issue I had when this came up in Pgh were all the people saying "OMG I will SO go out to bars all the time when the smoking ban comes along." For some people that's true, but for a lot of people, not so much. Once the ban is passed, they'll say they don't go out because of parking, or because it's too expensive, or because of the music, or blah blah blah.

A lot of people are just big party poopers, and like to blame their lameness on things that aren't their fault.

Heroin and other such drugs weren't always illegal - they lost their legal status when it was shown that their negatives were greater than their positives. If tobacco is such a horrible drug, why hasn't it become illegal as well? (Yes I know - tobacco lobby blah blah blah.) You can't demonize something and continue to profit from it.

Uhhh what about my personal freedom to not have to inhale YOUR second-hand smoke while I enjoy my burger?

Be happy that you don't live in Texas, where it is WAY more than 10 minutes to get to a state border :)

The "high end" clubs and restaurants can just declare themselves private clubs can't they? Pretty much every region with a smoking ban has a legislative provision for the establishment of private clubs with private memberships in which smoking is permissible - most of the Men's Clubs or higher end places catering to the cigar crowd went that way up here when the ban hit years ago...

PS> For the OP - no the quoted bit by me was directed at the guy in the article and not you, which is why your name wasn't at the top of the quote ;)

So you agree that you shouldn't be allowed to smoke in you car with your kids because of health concerns.........but you think it's ok to smoke indoors in businesses, bars, restaurants, etc. where your second hand smoke is unhealthy to everyone within your vicinity?

Not sure if Illinois left a provision for private clubs or not. Arguably the employees still have to work there...

ETA: according to a google news search: Private Clubs are NOT exempt.

Pulmonary Grand Rounds
 

Here is your healthy lung:

http://library.thinkquest.org/trio/T...althy-lung.jpg


and here is your lung on smoking tobacco:

http://medicineworld.org/images/blog...lung-22312.jpg


Here is your cancerous lips and mouth caused by smoking tobacco:

http://library.thinkquest.org/trio/T...pcancer_cr.jpg

http://library.thinkquest.org/trio/T..._cancer_cr.jpg


Now as a taxpayer, should I have to foot this kind of health treatment when I can attempt to prevent it by longterm cheaper cessation program?

Dr. AKA_Monet
Chief of GC Hospital

Idiopathic Interstitial Pneumonia; Cryptogenic Fibrosing Alveolitis
 

More photos for the smokers! YAAY smokers!!!

http://www.pathology.vcu.edu/educati...mages/2i-e.jpg

We are almost ready to start Case Conference for those studying for the USMLE! :)

I didn't even catch that from the OP.

That makes absolutely no sense at all.

And AKA_Monet, I <3 U!

If smoking and nonsmoking sections are created PROPERLY in restaurants...and if common sense is followed (i.e., not walking thru the smoking section to get to the nonsmoking) this isn't an issue.

I never said you shouldn't be allowed to smoke in your car with kids...I meant any responsible parent should know not to do it. A 10 year old kid doesn't have a choice to ride in a car with their parent or not, people do have a choice of what establishments support.

Fiscal Note (Dept. of Revenue)
The Department of Revenue estimates that SB 500 would reduce tax revenues collected under the Cigarette Tax Act and the Cigarette Use Tax Act by approximately $24 million to $60 million per year and would reduce Retailers' Occupation Tax and Use Tax Revenues by approximately $3.5 million to $8.5 million per year.

Taken from: http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/Bill...51&LegID=28191

Monet,
This is not a personal attack but your post reminds me of PETA. Taken to the extreme and showing the worst-case-scenario.

And Texas,
You are right, I am lucky. Where I live is 10 miles away from Wisconsin and where I go to school is about 10 miles away from Kentucky...places where personal freedoms are still respected.

I didn't quote it but to whoever asked how many bar owners I've met...I've met quite a few. Actually, I deliver for Miller beer so I've met most of the bar owners in Northern Illinois. Yes, many are not the smartest but they don't last. They make bad business decisions and close down. It's not the big "nightlife" type bars and clubs that we are worried about either. It's the small neighborhood bars that are in danger. It's only been a few days but we have already had 3 bars close down. It was the ones that were barley hanging on to begin with and the ban was the straw that broke the camel's back.

I'm lucky that I only have one semester left here before I move back to school. We had a meeting at work yesterday and my manager told us that if the trend continues with bars closing, layoffs will start next month. Business has already slowed considerably. I went from working 60 hours a week to working 35. I can no longer afford to live in my apartment and at the end of the month, lucky me, get to move back in with my mom. So for all of you that think the ban only inconveniences smokers, guess again. It goes a lot deeper than you think. A lot of good people are going to be standing in the unemployment line quite soon.

http://www.illinoissmokersrights.com...uldyoutell.jpg

http://www.illinoissmokersrights.com...notwelcome.jpg

^^^Having family members lost to lung cancer I'm not going anywhere near this smoking discussion, but jmag, I just noticed your signature link and clicked in. Watching your brothers do the *shimmy clap* to "Thriller" cracked me up!