Originally Posted by BlueNYC2 (Post 1526778)

wait...let me get this straight...dude was on line, dropped, snitched(b!tched), then became a member? yo, its one thing if you're a skater or paper...but at least you aint snitch/b!tch to get into the org. I dont care how one got in, whether its pledge/skate/paper, but to snitch and force your way in is not wats up in my book. THATS when i have no respect for you....

Originally Posted by Kevin (Post 1527327)

How else would we be able to stamp out the sort of behavior which could potentially threaten our organizations' existences? It takes a lot of courage to be a "snitch." Far more than it does to simply go along with whatever [illegal] program one's organization has put together. In most states, hazing is a crime. At a minimum, by "snitching," one is saving future generations from having to risk potential jail time/fines and blemished records.

I typically am not one to judge what other organizations are doing. NPHC least of all. But with all due respect, your attitude and the attitudes described by the individuals in the community described by PrettyBoy are pretty disturbing.

NPC organizations have by and large been successful eliminating hazing. NIC organizations have had success, but to a somewhat lesser extent. Are NPHC organizations having a more difficult time? Why?

Originally Posted by PrettyBoy (Post 1527349)

Originally Posted by MysticCat (Post 1527462)

Let me get this straight. The chapter required 8 more weeks of "underground" pledging after these guys had already been initiated per the national ceremony? And after the national initation ceremony, the chapter lied to the newly initiated about fraternity symbols and secrets and withheld the correct information until these guys had completed the chapter's additional 8 weeks?

Wow.

Originally Posted by amanda6035 (Post 1527440)

I think i understand what BlueNYC is saying though....If you're going to snitch on someone, why would you still want to bully your way into the organization?

Originally Posted by Senusret I (Post 1527405)

That's really despicable.

Originally Posted by Kevin (Post 1527487)

By informing your HQ, you're showing yourself to be a more loyal member than anyone directly violating their HQ's edicts are. As we always sway, our organizations are for life, not just for college. Why should you allow yourself to be robbed of this lifetime experience because some people were violating the rules and you called them on it?

That's hardly "bullying" your way in. That's showing that you have what it takes to make tough choices and then being accepted by an organization which should be grateful to have such a dedicated and loyal member -- someone who is willing to put what is right above what is convenient. The organization is lucky to have such a person.



But that's the thing. No organization condones hazing. That chapters do it against their national policy is unfortunate. If the organization takes swift action and deals with those who were hazing, how could you possibly maintain that the organization supports or condones hazing?



No one respects someone who turns them into the authorities for breaking the law. Who in that equation has the moral high ground though?



You say "bullied," I say "did the right thing."

Originally Posted by amanda6035 (Post 1527493)

Yes, he did the right thing for snitching - but why on earth would he still want to join? That's the point of view I'm looking at it from. And why did these guys still initiate him if they werent going to respect him? Something about this story/situation doesnt make sense.....

Originally Posted by amanda6035 (Post 1527493)

Yes, he did the right thing for snitching - but why on earth would he still want to join? That's the point of view I'm looking at it from. And why did these guys still initiate him if they werent going to respect him? Something about this story/situation doesnt make sense.....

Originally Posted by Kevin (Post 1527504)

What Senusret said is true for NIC organizations as well -- membership is bigger than just the chapter. It's for life, not for college. Doing the right thing isn't easy -- and it certainly shouldn't cost you your membership. I can't speak for another organization, but had this kid been a Sigma Nu, he would have in my eyes been more qualified for membership than anyone who stood by and did nothing while the chapter participated in illegal activity which could jeopardize the entire organization.

If I found out that my chapter (which I am a founder of ) was hazing, I'd personally see to it that they were shut down. My loyalty is to my national organization above all. I am a Sigma Nu first, a member of my chapter second.

I know others feel differently, but I think this kid did an incredibly courageous thing. Instead of the easy/popular route, he decided to do the right thing which resulted in him being a marked man wherever he went. I can only hope I'd have as much strength to do what is right if placed in a similar situation.

Originally Posted by MysticCat (Post 1527462)

Let me get this straight. The chapter required 8 more weeks of "underground" pledging after these guys had already been initiated per the national ceremony? And after the national initation ceremony, the chapter lied to the newly initiated about fraternity symbols and secrets and withheld the correct information until these guys had completed the chapter's additional 8 weeks?

Wow.

Originally Posted by Drolefille (Post 1527470)

But it was tradition!!

Originally Posted by Drolefille (Post 1528097)

Yes well when lying to national headquarters comes back in style, do let me know.

Originally Posted by Senusret I (Post 1527405)

That's really despicable.

Originally Posted by PrettyBoy (Post 1528069)