The handsigns could be a joke. My chapter used to have one that started as a joke. One of the sororities always does a "woo woo" thing with one of their chants. One of my sisters noticed that when you watch sports games, it looks like people are saying "woo, woowoo" so we started doing that. They don't always start because of NPHC, some just start as a joke.

Nothing, I just don't understand why you would want to do something that makes you look like you're biting off another group.

NPC/NIC groups have had jackets and such for years, but the things I'm talking about are fairly recent - they're not long-held traditions for them or something. I was under the impression crossing jackets were so correct me if I'm wrong.

I understand what you're saying.

NPHC organizations have shared ideas and practices with NPC and NIC orgs for a long time. Sure, crossing jackets as we now know them may have been around since the 70s. But to me, it's just a jacket.

And don't forget.... just because one org in the NPHC does things doesn't mean it was truly meant to be shared by the entire NPHC. Ten years ago, I only knew the Ques to wear painted boots and it was more or less a national thing. Ten years later, I've seen Alphas with one black boot and one gold boot, Sigmas with blue boots, APO members at HBCUs with gold boots with blue laces....

I know that was a long tangent to just say that it doesn't matter, lol.

Agreed. Blacks Greeks can't be myopic about this. We basically took over much of the structure, terminology and traditions of existing GLOs in founding our organizations.If my understanding of history serves me, members of white GLOS gave founders of some of our BGLOs their ritual to help them on their way.And the founders of my fraternity did library research on fraternities to help them when they decided they wanted to form a fraternity. So, in a sense, there has been some interchange of traditions. Similarly, GLOs took over traditions and practices from the literary and debating societies, which in turn drew heavily on practices and traditions in the guilds of scholars of the Middle Ages.There's no place for any hatin' in this game!This is the way it's always been, if you see the big picture.

Doesn't bother me. In fact the term sands means different things within org in the NPHC depending on the chapter. Where I pledged in IL., we didn't use the term at all. We used a different one to denote someone who crossed with you in the same chapter.

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

If you borrow, just give respect to where you got it from. If you don't know, find out.

Similar to the respect that GLOs that came before the NPHC orgs should be given for the things the NPHC learned and "borrowed" from them.

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As far as why NPC members wouldn't just join an NPHC org if they like the way we do things:
Many traditions aren't attached to our specific founding purposes. So women who don't want to be in an organization with a starting purpose of being a vessel for black college women and servicing the black community, don't have to join an NPHC sorority just b/c they like to wear "line jackets" or call each other "sands."

That would be superficial and an insult to the depth of our organizations.

Very true!

People borrow, steal, adopt, adapt, and all sorts of stuff.

What's funniest is when people debate over who REALLY started certain traditions. Like who stole the cane from whom. Wake me when that debate is over.

Exactly! That was a very offensive remark.

I think its not that big of a deal. I think there is already too much division amongst fraternities and sororities based on race. These phrases are not copyrighted. If its a major problem maybe the NPHC should file to have them copyrighted for their private use. I mean we say by becoming initiated you have been welcomed to the brotherhood but thats not copyrighted.

I went to a black college so only NPHC GLOs existed on our campus. I can't speak for other GLOs but only our founding fathers created our rituals. We weren't jump started by another GLO that already existed.

Personally, hearing this surprised me. I always thought NPC/IFC had done their own thing while we did ours. Now that I know this, yeah it does kind of bother me. This is a personal opinion so I hope I'm not offending any other organizations, but I think NPHC GLOs are unique in our own way. Our traditions imitate no others. I think we are often imitated but never duplicated as far as stepping, and greek clothing, and now from what I'm hearing, other GLOs calling each other sands? and now using the term crossing?

Lets not forget, we were started because we were not excepted into NPC/IFC GLOs, so in turn we started our own. African American students didn't have support groups back then. On the white campuses like IU and Cornell, black students would go weeks without seeing another black student, so with NPHC GLOs starting, they made great support groups for black students, so I don't see us actually copying anyone at all. We've done our own thing for the past 100 years and will continue to do our own thing. Basically, no I don't like to see any sororities or fraternities within the NPHC umbrella group imitated at all.

And again, when did the NPHC become a monolith? Alpha has more in common with Malik Fraternity, Inc., than some NPHC orgs.

NPHC traditions DO imitate others. Greek letters, rituals, grips, passwords, and handsigns didn't get created in a vacuum. The organizational structure wasn't unique. And as our organizations matured, we assumed the characteristics of our communities.

Where I'm from, the neighborhoods have calls and chants. Did NPHC orgs do it first? Does it really matter?

Did we have crossing jackets in 1906 or did they evolve over time?

We need perspective here.... sure, I agree with Chaos when she says traditions need to be acknowledged. But everything else is literally just a facade.

It's funny you should mention this. When I was in undergrad, BGLOs did not have calls or handsigns (nor did Deltas collect elephants.) But Black students from various states did. The Delta call sounds very similar to what was then the New York call.

I don't think anyone said that the Founders of our orgs did not create our rituals, but maybe the rits were influenced by other orgs such as the Masons, OES, or even other GLOs. Unless you talked to your Founders personally how would you know this didn't happen?

Just how unique are we? And to say our traditions imitate no other is incorrect. In fact the history of stepping did not start with BGLOs. And many of the traditions to which you refer began in the last 30 years are less--crossing jackets, hand signs, calls, etc. And as I said before even the term Sands is not universally used the same within the NPHC.

Interesting analogy since most of the NPHC orgs were founded at a HBCU. And if Black folx went for weeks at a PWI without seeing another Black student, how in the heck were they able to form a fraternity/sorority? There had to have been some kind of mechanism for them to come together.

Do you think some of this could be a trend based in part on the universal appeal of hip-hop culture among young people? Sometimes I'm surprised by the music/dance/language/clothing that suburban kids of all colors enjoy today that would have made them posers when I was in high school/college. But they all seem to be okay with it...so isn't that a good thing?