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Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticCat (Post 1401761)

Lots more than 2 -- around 20, actually. The the claim that "all but 2 U.S. Presidents since 1825 were Greek" is a Greek urban legend that can be debunked in about one minute's worth of research. The first general (social) fraternity was Kappa Alpha Society -- founded in 1825. So a college student would have had to have been elected president that year for the statement to be true.

I've posted this before, but for the record, the following is from Center for the Study of the College Fraternity in Bloomington, Indiana:

The North-American Interfraternity Conference has also compiled a list of U.S. Presidents who were/are fraternity members. Contrary to the statistic quoted above ["All but two U.S. Presidents since 1825 have been fraternity men"], no president prior to 1877 was a fraternity member and seven presidents since then have not been fraternity men. Presidents who were fraternity members are:

President/Years in Office/Fraternity
Rutherford B. Hayes 1877-1881 Delta Kappa Epsilon
James Garfield 1881 Delta Upsilon
Chester Arthur 1881-1885 Psi Upsilon
Benjamin Harrison 1989-1893 Phi Delta Theta
William McKinley 1897-1901 Sigma Alpha Epsilon
Theodore Roosevelt 1901-1909 Delta Kappa Epsilon/Alpha Delta Phi
William Howard Taft 1909-1913 Psi Upsilon
Woodrow Wilson 1913-1921 Phi Kappa Psi
Calvin Coolidge 1923-1929 Phi Gamma Delta
Franklin D. Roosevelt 1933-1945 Alpha Delta Phi
Harry S. Truman 1945-1953 Lambda Chi Alpha
Dwight D. Eisenhower 1953-1961 Tau Epsilon Phi
John F. Kennedy 1961-1963 Phi Kappa Theta
Gerald R. Ford 1974-1977 Delta Kappa Epsilon
Ronald Reagan 1981-1989 Tau Kappa Epsilon
George H. W. Bush 1989-1993 Delta Kappa Epsilon
George W. Bush 2001- Delta Kappa Epsilon

Even if Warren G. Harding and Jimmy Carter (for Phi Alpha Delta) and Bill Clinton (for Alpha Phi Omega) are added, that is only 20 out of 42 presidents -- not even half. (Yes, I know the current President is #43, but Grover Cleveland was both #22 and #24, so only 42 people have been president.)

Jen needs to add this to her Greek Urban Legends page.

Richard Nixon wasn't greek but he started The Orthogonian Society at Whittier College. Whittier College banned greeks in the early 1900s and students revolted by forming their own non-greek lettered local fraternities and sororities. So while Nixon isn't greek, he had the fraternal spirit.

this is possible

I know i phrased it differently...but if it reads all but 2 us presidents since 1825 were in a fraternity...when you define fraternity, you are saying brotherhood...its possible that this statistic could include presidents who were part of the masonry..im not saying that this statement is true but it is definitely possible..and you are correct i will retract my statement for lack of a source

^^^ You are right that Freemasonry is a fraternity ("brotherhood") in the broad sense, and I have no idea how many presidents have been Masons, but I think when a statement is made along the lines of "all but 2 US presidents since 1825 were in a fraternity," the almost universal understanding is going to be a collegiate, general (social) fraternity. This is especially true since this statistic is usually cited in rush materials or responses to criticisms of the Greek system.

This urban legend has been around a long time, and it pops up on GC from time to time. Funny the "myths" that grow up around GLOs.

yeah, well at least I know now..I just always heard it so assumed it was true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticCat (Post 1404470)

^^^ You are right that Freemasonry is a fraternity ("brotherhood") in the broad sense

lol... "in the broad sense."

Masonry as a fraternity preceded college fraternities as we know them today. Many founders of IFC fraternities were Masons and used Masonic principles and ceremonies in founding their own orgs.

Sure, there's a semantic distinction between "college fraternity" and "any fraternity," and it might be slightly misleading to people who don't know about or understand Masonry, but Masonry was a fraternity LONG before your org was ever founded; know where you came from. ;)

^^^ I know quite about Masonic history and the history of GLOs in general and particular. Thanks all the same. ;)

An understanding of connotation and common usage are key. While Masons and masonic writing frequently refer to Freemasonry as "the Fraternity," the general public doesn't. Indeed, you say "it might be slightly misleading to people who don't know about or understand Masonry." That would be the majority of Americans. Ask the average American what a "fraternity" is, and you're going to get a description of a college GLO. Anything beyond that would be viewed as a fraternity "in the broad sense" of the word, not the narrower but commonly assumed sense. That's why I said:

"when a statement is made along the lines of 'all but 2 US presidents since 1825 were in a fraternity,' the almost universal understanding is going to be a collegiate, general (social) fraternity. This is especially true since this statistic is usually cited in rush materials or responses to criticisms of the Greek system."

If the claim that "all but 2 US presidents since 1825 were in a fraternity," was meant to include Masons, then anybody wanting to be understood would say "all but 2 US presidents since 1825 were in fraternities and/or were Masons." Otherwise, it's a trick question.

Being in a Fraternity is not ment to be just Social Greek Organizations.

Phi Beta Kappa is considered the first true Greek Organization in the USA!

Kappa Sigma holds that they go back to Italy.

Free Masons go back before any. Two Divisions:
Knights Templer and Scottish Rite. Yes, many if not most of the Founding Fathers of America were Members. Many were members of the Greek Organizations that We know today as Social Organizations. Also, many GLOs did take parts of their Rituals from the Masonic Order.:)

All of that is true, Tom. (Except that the two main appendant bodies, not divisions, of Freemasonry are the Scottish Rite and the York Rite. The Knights Templar is an order of the York Rite.)

And none of it changes the fact that to the average person, fraternity means collegiate GLO.

You're talking about denotation; I'm talking about connotation.