Definitely a candidate for Future Father of the Year.

When I said "romance" over the candlelight, I meant talking and holding hands by candlelight, not "hitting it" right there and then on top of the table.

The trouble is, jubilance1922, too many people do NOT teach their children how to behave in public. They believe that their children can "do no wrong" and they ruin it for the rest of us.

That is entirely too true! Too many parents rely on teachers or other authority figures to teach their children manners. If I hear the phrase "quality time" one more time, I may have to take the "How Likely Are You to Go Postal?" quiz again!

And I find myself agreeing with valkyrie yet again. (Twighlight Zone music!)

It's important for kids to learn good manners and good behavior. While its nice to bring kids to more "fun and child friendly" chains every now and then, children also need to learn how to fit into the parent's lives.

The only thing that I disagree with is the DVD player at dinner... it can disturb other diners and isn't appropriate at the dinner table.

I have a problem with parents who don't teach their kids how to behave, because while I'm trying my hardest teaching mine manners and how to behave in public, and she sees other kids running around like nutjobs she wants to know why she can't do that too. And making comments such as "Well, those children's parents let them behave like animals" WILL backfire, because I know my child WILL repeat that loudly at an extremely inopportune time.

I agree. When I said the child should have been left at home, it was not because children should never darken the doors of a nice restaurant, it was because if the kid needed a DVD player at the restaurant, then she didn't need to be there to begin with.

I agree completely that kids need to learn good manners and acceptable behavior in public settings. Last time I checked, it was neither good manners nor acceptable behavior to watch TV at the dinner table. This kid wasn't learning how to fit into her parent's lives, she was learning that they will adapt their lives to what she wants.

One can't have it both ways -- Either they are teaching her how to behave in public, meaning she actually carries on a conversation with them, or they are teaching her to be anti-social at the dinner table.

Taualumna's original question was not whether it was inconsiderate to other diners for the girl to be at the restaurant -- assuming she had headphones, then it wasn't inconsiderate. Her question was whether the child would have been better off at home with a sitter. I think she would have been.

And trust me, I know how hard it can be to get a sitter sometimes, and the problems that ensue when a sitter cancels at the last minute. You deal with it. You change plans as necessary, and you reschedule the nice dinner at the nice restaurant.

Exactly. If the point of the dinner was for Mom and Dad to have a nice, romantic meal, the child should have stayed at home. If the point was for the family to enjoy a meal together, they should have gone to a family restaurant.

A dvd player in a restaurant is simply inappropriate. If you're going to be out somewhere with your kids, you shouldn't ignore them. :(

There is no way a stranger can make this determination, period.

Excellent point!

ETA: You're right that the DVD didn't teach the child anything except BAD manners. However, I do think it's important for children to learn how to behave in a nice restaurant, and shouldn't always be exposed to family restaurants. If this child needed a DVD in order to behave, then yes, I agree, she should have been left home with a babysitter rather than disturbing other diners.

And this differs from half of the discussions on Greek Chat how?

I believe that's where the work "think" comes into play. Meaning, in his opinion, a child would be better at home with a sitter, then at a nice restaurant with a DVD player.

Not definitively, but we're only making a generalized assumption here.

If the child can sit quietly during their dinner, then I don't mind her/him being in the restaurant.

The good thing about fancy restaurants is that the servers and management will usually go the extra mile to make sure their customers are comfortable and have a pleasant dining experience. I was at a high-end restaurant a few months back. A couple at the table next to us brought their little "angel". He had to be about 3 or 4 years old. He was continuously banging his fork against the water glass and he kept making these awful screeching noises. It was so irritating so we asked the server if we could move to a table FAR from the child. The restaurant was packed so the manager went over to the table and told the parents that their "angel" needed to stop disturbing the other patrons. The parents looked mortified. Classic. The parents did get their kid under control after that.

I would have to guess that if a child can't be at a restaurant without having a dvd player to occupy him/her, then (s)he would be better off at home with a sitter where (s)he could watch movies or do whatever (s)he wants.

LOL true. It's just funny to me how people are so quick to say "the child would've been better off at home with a sitter!" What if the kid has Asperger's or agoraphobia and the parents are slowly trying to help her get more comfortable in new situations? What if the sitter is a child molester? I mean, WHO KNOWS. The real question here has nothing to do with whether the kid is "better off" with a sitter because there is no way any of us can know that. The people who are saying she would be are, I think, expressing either discomfort with seeing a small child at a certain type of restaurant OR their judgment of how the parents are raising their kid.