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Quote:

Originally Posted by ktsnake

...and a more egregious offense...

I think "egregious" is a great word.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Those rules do seem ridiculous, but not uncommon. Regarding the signatures, I know of several chapters (if not entire campuses) where this is common policy. I think it is a simple and good system for the pledges to become associated with the brothers. I absolutely abhore when people say it is one sided, which should not be the concern of the university. Should they really be that concerned that pledges may have to spend a semester as less-than-brothers? Simply put, it is how the greek system functions. In the signature systems I'm familiar with, pledges are generally required to go to most if not all of the brothers every week to get their signature. Often they have to get information from the brothers which they will later be tested on. In order to get the signature, the pledge generally has to correctly complete a quizzing of the test material by the brother. I see nothing wrong with this. Even in situations where signatures are exchanged for other things (rides to class, running an errand), is this really hazing? Does anyone feel like less of a person for taking some guy to class? I think there will come a point where the Universities randomly provide new members to fraternities... "Alright KA, heres your 2007 fall class, don't kick anyone out, or we'll get you for hazing and discrimination."

I believe the major issue with signatures is that some have abused it to the detriment of the many. If 9 out of ten brothers give signatures appropriately and the tenth says, sure after you chug this beer, take 6 shots, and bring me the condom you use to bang that chick from XYZ... it no longer matters that the other nine behaved properly.

Quote:

3. All greek organization advisors (on and off), persons desiring to rush or join a greek organization, and all currently active greek organization members, who wish to participate in rush activities, must attend the Greek 101 workshop prior to the initiation of new members.

People who aren't initiated members being FORCED to attend activities?

Hmmm, sounds like hazing to me. Tell your school to stop hazing!

As far as the test issue, you can get around that (if that is what they mean) by saying that a major value of your GLO is scholarship and therefore anything that would improve the scholastic performance of members cannot be "unrelated to the organization."

Yeah, whoever wrote this up needs to sit back and watch Family Guy for like 800 hours or something and chill.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl

Yeah, whoever wrote this up needs to sit back and watch Family Guy for like 800 hours or something and chill.

That would make him (her?) even more of a blubbering idiot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ktsnake

Every time I think about the laundry list, I think of more problems with it. For example, there is absolutely nothing to differentiate between some of the more innocuous things on the list, like maybe an event for pledges only, and a more egregious offense. They're both on the list, so are the penalties for violating those things the same?

Maybe, if you can't get the administration to budge on any of the rules, at least try to get them to spell out the punishments and have a range of punishments that could be doled out depending on the severity of the violation.

Edited because I found what I was looking for on the Penn State website. http://www.sa.psu.edu/greeks/pdf/Org.CONDUCTManual.pdf
Sanctions are on page 20 to 21 and preceded on page 18 and 19 by the list of violations from least severe to most severe.

Sure, signatures will be occasionally abused, just like everything is. How about we punish those who use them in poor judgement, rather than enacting a blanket ban on the entire practice. But then, that would put responsibility in the hands of the students, and God knows we don't want that. I hope one day society will realize personal responsibility is a GOOD thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Yes, but while that would be an ideal, the reality is that everyone's covering their butts.

It's like the entire Greek system is grounded because of what our predecessors did. The administrators of the world are basically saying we had our chance and look what we did with it "insert hazing story here"

Most of the things on the list SHOULD BE no brainers. All of them have happened and some of them have killed people. Signatures are one example of something that's probably ok most of the time, but it gets lumped in all together.

While signatures might be a nice tradition, there's nothing preventing you from doing the same thing in different ways if that's what's required.

I agree that personal responsibility is key. But wearing your letters or not, you represent your fraternity and the entire Greek system. When one fraternity hazes, all get punished.

/Yet some boys, and some girls, still do it.

Well, the things done for purely liability reasons, physical endangerment, etc...I understand. Of course, I still think it is ridiculous, but the school must protect itself. What mostly distresses me, are the things done that involve no direct harm, or much liability to the school. For example, signatures. I'm sure there is partly the reason that a brother could make a pledge do _____ for it (which is where personal responsibility comes in, the pledge can just say NO), but more often they concern themselves with the self esteem side of the situation. Why are schools so concerned with making sure students feel so great about themselves. It shouldnt be their job to make sure that all students are self confident and have high self esteem. I simply hate it when schools try to make sure students are included in organizations, especially when they often don't belong.