Then you all need to grow a pair.

Seriously.

The decisions are up to YOU to make. These aren't Darth Vader's storm troopers coming in with stun guns. They're 22-23-24 year old women.

If you as current actives don't feel that you can stand up to them and say "we respect your input and know you want to help, but we want to try it this way," then maybe the alums' concern about how you will run rush is valid.

And it varies from group to group as to whether nonmembers can be advisors.

I'm sure this varies from group to group. We had an adviser that was a Zeta, two ASAs, and one that was unaffiliated. Our bylaws say that only the Ritual Adviser MUST be an ASA, and some other advisers are "recommended but not necessary to be ASAs" and then we have a few that it doesn't matter one bit if they are ASAs or not. But then again, one ASA chapter can easily have 5 advisers.

It would depend on your sorority. You may have to check with your national hq on that. But you can still ask the professor to be your school advisor. Don't most sororities have two advisors anyways? One for the school and one for nationals.

Dang, you'd think you're my sister or something.;) ;)

Thanks for all your suggestions, everybody. I appreciate your thoughts.

I get what you're saying, AlphaFrog, about not being forced to listen. You just have to know these girls. They're the most demanding, persistent people I've ever met. And when they all get together, they're like some kind of unstoppable train or something. I know it sounds stupid, but they're just extremely hard to say no to. It's just easier (and much more peaceful) to say, "Fine. We give in."

Maybe the suggestion of lying about when/where our summer workshops are is the best route. Or, if they find out and come, we'll just have another one after they leave when we make the final decisions. It just seems wrong to have to do it twice.

Thanks again, everyone. I'm feeling better about this situation. At least now I feel like we have options.

If this is what it takes to get things the way YOU want them, then you might just have to put in the extra time. In the end, it will probably be worth it to have things run your way.

I think you should shame them into apologizing. ;)

I hate to sound mean but I have to agree with 33girl, you guys, as a chapter, need to grow a pair.

You (and I'm saying you, as in the chapter) need to tell the alums that under no circumstances are they invited to your summer workshops. End of discussion. If they show up, kick them out. You guys need to start standing up to the alums. They are out of college, they need to realize this. Yes, you want and need alumnae support, but from the sounds of it, they are doing more than supporting you guys, they are trying to run your chapter.

I can only speak for ADPi and the alums in my area, but when it comes to formal recruitment, I can't go to summer workshops, recruitment workshops. I stay in a back room (during recruitment), tabulating. That's it. The only ones, alum wise, who are with the chapter are our Recruitment advisor, chapter advisor and TME advisor. That's it. Any non-advisor alum just can't go in and start demanding the chapter do certain things, even alums from the chapter can't do that.

The things you can do as a collegian are COMPLETELY different than the things you do as an alum. They are trying to have their cake and eat it to.

As for your advisor situation, do you only have one advisor? If you don't, go to any advisor. Go to your recruitment, standards, whichever advisor you have that is actually doing their job. If you don't have an advisor doing their job, go to your province director (if you have them), go to someone higher up.

If you guys as a chapter, do not nip this in the bud, it is only going to get worse as time goes on. The alums are going to get more and more demanding.

You don't sound mean, ASUADPi. I came here for advice. That's what you're giving. And, if it makes you feel any better, I completely agree. We DO need to learn how to stand up to them.

This is all connected to posts I made earlier in the academic year. Our problem has (IMO) always stemmed from this group of very... um, strong?... women. I had the patience to just wait it out earlier in the year, 'cause I knew they were graduating. I thought that would be the end. Clearly, it isn't.

I hope I can manage to get the rest of the chapter to agree to keep our summer workshops quiet (with respect to sharing details with the alum). If not, then I'll have to learn how to tell these women that they're not welcome. I'm not an officer, though, so I don't know how much impact I can have with that. But you're right... the chapter needs to spine-up and take control of OUR future.

Regarding the advisor, yes, we have only one. I'm going to look into contacting someone regionally or nationally regarding our current advisor-related situation. If we had any others, believe me, I'd definitely go to them first.

Can any of you remember if/how your chapter ever dealt with a relatively young member taking so much initiative? I don't want to step on toes, but at the same time, this is my sorority (and life!) too. I feel like I can make it better, but I don't want girls to think I'm too young to know what should be done.

(GC needs to start a counseling service. I feel like I ask too many questions!)

The chapters I have worked with have supported younger members taking on leadership roles. We are all sisters.

What is your official role within the sorority? Exec Board? Recruitment Chair? If this issue is as prevalent as you say, this would be a good time to call a summer Exec. Board meeting to discuss the problem and collectively brainstorm how to eliminate it once and for all.

You may just need to send out a nicely worded cease and desist letter to these women.

You may want to amend your bylaws to indicate that alumnae are invited to attend chapter meetings and functions by invitation of the executive board only. Alumnae may visit the chapter house during visiting hours only or as specified by invitation of the executive board in extenuating circumstances (such as support during recruitment, summer house repairs, evening meetings, alumnae functions held at the chapter house, etc.). Alumnae can be alerted of this amendment.

You do not need to resort to subterfuge or secret workshops. These are events for collegiate members only. Alumnae support is certainly appreciated, but on a by-request basis only. If alumnae support is needed, the collegiate chapter will submit a request. If there is an alumnae-collegiate mixer, alumnae will be invited. End of story.

If the alumnae press the issue, confront the issue head-on. What is wrong with reminding them that you pay dues and thereby these decisions are yours to make with the blessing of your adviser and the sorority's bylaws?

OK, I went back over your old posts and reacquainted myself with your situation.

I'm guessing that the alums are afraid you (chapter you) want to turn the chapter into a group of vapid Barbie dolls. They're worried they will be unwelcome when returning to their own house, and rightly so.

Assure them that just because you're going to be putting a little more emphasis on the rushees' appearance, you're not going to let stupid, personality free beauties in just to make your sorority look better.

One thing you also may need to check up on is that other sorority sister's are not extending them invites. My sorority also had an experience with manipulative and controlling girls. This was only while they were seniors and not as alumnae but I Know the frustration when someone who is your sister and who you are supposed to respect is acting like adolpf hilter with boobs.

I would perhaps talk to your exec board about the issue and if she agress have her send out an email to the entire chapter letting them know that workshops and other such meetings are stictly for current members and no alumnae. Tell them any invitations to events for alumae will be decided upon by the whole chapter later. This will prevent other sisters who are either intimidated or a fan of the alumnae from backing down or secretly inviting them. Once the sorority is together as a whole on the issue you can present a united front to the alumni and let them know that it is not int he chapter's best interest to have them at workshops or other events as it hinders younger members growing in leadership positions or something else like that.

Even if you looovveee the alumnae, it's best to get approval in advance for "visitors" to your workshop. The Chapter Advisor or Recruitment Advisor can be the "bad guy".

They have to remember that normally workdays are pretty well structured since you only have a few days to get a lot done.

The same thing goes for actual Recruitment, they can help in the kitchen, etc. but don't let them tell you how you should vote!

Thank you for this MUCH needed laugh!! :D

If you and other members of the chapter are indeed so concerned about this, now is the time to do something. (Inter)national is there to support your chapter, and perhaps through a phone call they could give you some advice that could be helpful as well.

Best wishes to you and your chapter - please do keep us posted.

Well, the update isn't very good. Recruitment just ended not too long ago. We got 1/5 of quota. We're the only chapter who didn't make quota, and all the others even got quota plus.

It's pretty sad around here. Chapter morale is extremely low.

Some of the alums have called for a "closed meeting". I don't know what that is, but it doesn't sound good. Rumor has it that they're talking about closing the chapter. Can they do that? Whose decision is it to close us (if that's what happens)? I wouldn't think alums have any say in that matter. But, I dunno.

So, now you're up to speed. Thanks to all who offered advice... It was all probably moot, tho. :(