Pretty Sunshine,

As I stated earlier, what works for me may not work for you just as what works for you may not work for me. The idea of submission is a WHOLE lot more than just "what you do for me and vice versa" and the fact that you see the word "submission" and just run off on a tangent of steretypes speaks volumes.

Catering to your man has NOTHING to do with wrapping your whole life around a guy or the idea that a woman has no identity of her own. And who said that the man does nothing in return? LOL . Please click on the link I provided to learn more because there you will find the detail.

As I stated earlier, one "type" is neither better nor worse than the other. What matters is what works for you and yours. If you don't like it or believe it..cool, but that CERTAINLY does not mean that your way or idea is the "end all, be all" to making a relationship work.

yeah, i feel what you saying. every other sentence on her page is her webmaster biggin her up for being a "wife, doctor and mother." dont see why that seems like an anomaly.

now i dont see how this is a "spin-off" to the TBM thread, but what Ms. WifeMD is doing doesnt seem like a race thing at all. its her making a dollar off of telling the world "do *this* and *that* to keep your man around."

Because the issue (from the other thread) really is about how Rainman has been picking the wrong women who happened to be black. lol I think it was enigma_aka that stated this, but everything he despised about black women can be found in all women. No one race or ethnicity is immune from a few bad apples.

And she's not special. Plenty of women believe what she believes (i.e. Honeykiss1974) and they don't get paid, don't get guest appearances on television or their own website. :rolleyes: Besides, ALL successful marriages don't work on one formula; they work off of many. Her philosophy, clearly, won't work for a lot of women, obviously.

I read a book, written in the 70's, about the different approaches to marriage. "Men, Women and Change: The Sociology of Marriage" discussed, I think, 3 different styles--the nurturer/housewife, the partner/50-50, and the career wife. It also talked about how race, education and sex identification plays into marital decisions. Y'all should check it out! ;)

Sidenote~Did anyone see that episode of 'Wife Swap' (or 'Trading Spouses'--I don't remember which one) where the woman had the super-subservient husband (and kids)? :mad: And when she switched households, the other man was practically the complete opposite of where she came from? It was wierd. Some people are insane. :o I'm glad my parents are relatively normal. :D(<-----came from a part partnership, part nurturer household :))

enigma_AKA

I came up in the nurturer/100-100 household. So, I guess it is really difficult for me to see things any other way. And they say women look for men who are like thier fathers and I just found that out to be true. One thing about my parents...They took care of each other, even if it meant doing things out of their element. That is apart of what true love is.

But, PrettySunshine, sometimes 'true love' to some means doing all you can for your partner. For instance, for my parents, it was my mother taking care of my father 110%. You see, my father has MS and it's difficult for him to do things by himself. She had to work full time, finish her degree(s) and take care of 3 nappy headed children (and then a fourth b/c my 'rents adopted my little cousin) while my father stayed at home. Is that 50/50? Heck naw. Sometimes it was more like 80/20. And my mother had NOOO problem with doing that. And in other instances, my mother cooked and cleaned while all my father, when was fully able, did nothing but go to work and basically come home. It aint for everybody, but it was for THEM.

And then, my dad would do all the cooking and cleaning, the nurturing of the kids when Mom was away and taking care of business. Kinda like a househusband. :p Some women might not feel that's okay. Some women might feel that her husband has to be, as the good Dr :rolleyes: said, that it is her role to be carer/nurturer and his role to be hunter/gatherer. But that doesn't mean their love is any less 'true'; it also means that she might thoroughly enjoy 'catering to her man'--whatever that means.

It also means that Dr. Wife needs to stop blanketing roles for women :rolleyes: and get with the program, though. She says some mess sometimes.

enigma_AKA

I agree with who ever said I dont see how this is a spin off to the Tired Black man Thread.

What Dr C was saying was hardly earth shattering. I believe that the man is called to be the head of household. I'm would say that I *think* that many, if not most, women dont have a problem with being submissive and loving to their husband. But there HAS to be a two way street. No one wants to be with someone who is constantly taking but never giving.

Rainman I dont see the connection.

Yea, but that is a different situation. I would also take care of my husband in that way and would hope that he'd do the same. But I mean when you have two "healthy" people and one just sits around and does nothing all day. I just cannot comprehend that.

Personally, I would not like to have someone waiting on me hand and foot. Help me out a bit but do everything for me...no.

That's what I meant before about Daddy coming in after work and Mom's having the food on the table AT 6.00 PM. She didn't HAVE to; she wanted to. And MS is the type of disease that *sometimes* symptoms come and go. Consequently, there were times that my father was at home ill and times when he was at home without exacerbations of his illness. He was able bodied, but he didn't go to work at some point. And for some time, it was okay with my mother. Besides, when I was younger, she herself stayed at home with me until I was about 4. And it was still okay. And when he did go to work, Mom still cooked and cleaned. I guess you can say it gave her peace (that is, until the CHANGE, lol!)

You can't comprehend it because that's not the type of love YOU need. It's not the same for everyone. When I said it was a partnership, that is defined by the couple. A give and take. If she wants to give to man completely, she should do so. Now, *I* cannot be 'stuck' at home, nor will *I* have a husband who will be 'stuck' at home because it doesn't work for ME. It doesn't work for a lot of couples; thankfully, for those whom it doesn't work for, they don't have that type of relationship. For those who do enjoy the carer/hunter partnership, they do their own thing and experience 'true love' by their own definition. ;)

enigma_AKA

That assertion is incorrect.

Matter of fact, I stated in no uncertain terms in the TBM thread that the central issue was moreso with WESTERN women in general than with black women in particular. That is what prompted me to start the DrWifeMD thread to begin with.

Ahhh, stereotypes and misconceptions abound in here. :( Too many that are so ridiculous and lack common sense that I don't even have the energy to address them.

And Rainman, I will clarify - you have an issue with black western women. Apparently, you've dated them all and have determined that we are all alike.

Sorry, but I have no compassion for people that think like you. Its no different than some white people who go around thinking all blacks steal, are lazy, on welfare, or whatever...simply based on a FEW experiences that they've had. If we all know that that type of thinking in flawed in terms of race, why is it not in terms of catergorizing all black western women?

Shoot, the posts in this thread alone should tell you that we ARE NOT all alike. But anyway....

Relationships
 

Has anyone actually read "Marriage Connection" a newsletter by "Marriage Partnership" published by ChristianityToday.com?

Some of the articles are extremely helpful in my marriage. Just how to be married. And some of the books they recommend, like those of Gary Chapman, are very good. Others, like "His Needs, Her Needs"--well I don't relate to what the author is saying. I'm not the one who has "desire" issues to keep it simple...

RM-

I wouldn't be so quick to discount an American (westernized) sistah as much as you are ready to. You really are in a tough location to meet quality women, generally... You need to visit locations, other than ATL or DC, to meet the kind of women you desire...





I do think some of what Veronica is saying is accurate. Most of what she said is for the "soundbite" and "political". But girlfriend ain't struggling tryin' to make ends meet with a no-good man. Her man does right by her. Either he or she chose well when the hooked up. But something tells me that homegirl is 'bout to leave her man for some reason... Not because he did anything wrong, she just wants it all to herself--'specially when her kids are grown and outta the house...

Which brings us back to this "Americanized western woman" concept of "independence". Non-westernized women may do more for their husbands because their options are limited, but they also have family support--like mother's helping out with the care of children, etc. Most American western women have lost that kind of support because usually the "grandparents" are ready to play after they retire. If I had kids, although I know my mom and dad would move up where I am and help me if I "begged" them to, I wouldn't do it... 1) My husband would resent me for it. 2) 'Cuz my folks would probably drive me nuts. 3) His folks-specially my MIL would definitely put me in the looney bin...

But in other cultures, that is how they do it still. I respect that. But for some reason our economy and cultural shift no longer supports that...

Damn...........I knew she was too good to be true.

Re: Relationships
 

WTH?

AKA_Monet, what are you basing this^^ statement on? I live in NE Ohio and frequently business travel to Columbus (where I think, RM lives). Trust, beautiful black sistahs (and from a variety of ethnic/cultural backgrounds) are on constant display. Constant.

If you know yourself, and approach folk in that manner, you can interact with women who interest you. (I mean, isn't this obvious?)

Update for HK74
 

HK, lemme explain what prompted all this to begin with:

Last summer I found an online discussion forum that discussed the issues (personal, professional, and romantic) that American men had with American women. I got into some of the discussions and was able to relate in some respects, but it wasn't until an incident with who I thought was the epitome of a Proverbs 31 woman (something very minor and trivial that I did out of love got blown out of proportion, in a nutshell) occured Christmas of last year that sealed the deal for me and had me sold that AWs were, well incorrigible.

Fast forward to today. Myself and the young lady did not speak to each other for 4 months, though I will tell you that my motives for not speaking was out of a growing hate for her (and a high resentment for women in general). So today, during our worship, we were told to lift the burden of heaviness, which God prompted me that my heaviness burden was b/t myself and her, and that I should try and reconcile our differences. Well, after service I did that and was rewarded with the most vile and nasty attitude I had ever seen in all the 7 years I had known her.

So I go to my pastor and try to explain what had happened and about my resentment with AWs and feminism. He said that I should find an associate pastor and arrange a spiritual mediation b/t myself and her to find out what the core problem is. He also said that he himself at one time had a problem with black women after he was divorced from his first wife, and that his 2nd wife reinstated his love and trust in black women. I say that only because I think God is trying to tell me something. Whatever that is remains to be seen.

Anyway...we'll see what happens.

Talk to you later :)