Re: update
 

Jesse Jackson
Al Sharpton
Tupac's momma
Tboz
Senator osama
FAMU students

The word "Black" was used to distinguish the victim and used repeatedly.

The word "White" was used to distinguish the guards.

Someone made a specific statements saying it's not about race - except it is since she didn't make the statement about sex.

How can this not be playing the race card?

-Rudey

*sigh* I just don't understand you. I'm seriously not even going to bother CONSIDERING addressing your race questions anymore. Just answer one simple question: do you even care that he was killed?

Re: Re: update
 

*Yep, yep* to all that you noted. Except for the fact that the article noted that the guards who beat the boy were Black and White. ;)

But the situation is still effed up. 'Race card' or not, he shouldn't have been beaten to death and those in charge (officials, adminstration, guards, EVERYBODY) should've handled the situation differently. Had he been White, it would've still been an effed up situation. But he wasn't. HE WAS BLACK. And now, some Blacks are concerned/upset and are doing these things to call attention to it. Had they not noted he was Black and that the guards were White (AND Black ;)), what kind of 'card' would they be playing? The DEATH card? So...your point is? :confused:

At any rate--still a humanitarian issue in my book. ;)

enigma_AKA

Do I know what he did or the circumstances behind his death? No.

Do people get rough handled at boot camp? Yes, it's not a summer camp in the poconos.

Did he go to boot camp for something bad? Yes otherwise he wouldn't be there.

Did he deserve to die? I wouldn't think so but I don't kill and I don't determine who lives or dies.

Those bootcamps are in existance because of the tough treatment they dole out. The kid could have been in jail being raped by Tyrone and Wilbur or getting shanked and dying and nobody would be crying or giving a damn.

Also, people are killed every day. What would my attachment be to this that I would care any more for him than I do a soldier that is fighting to protect my country?

And really, the race cards have been dealt. You can call it a disservice to the remembrance of his life and all that even. It's not even just on the race card dealers like Al and Jesse, but on these "Protestors" that invited them.

So really did Al and Jesse care that he died or did they want the spotlight again? Did the protestors care that he died when they brought in people that didn't care?

-Rudey

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If it was a white boy that died, would Jesse be there?
If he was in prison instead of bootcamp and shanked and raped to death, would Jesse be there?
Did Jesse, Al, and the entire FAMU crew protest against boot camps in the past? I mean these aren't club meds. lol

I mean it's all awful and sad, but why does his death inspire Jesse and Al? Why did the protestors bring those guys in?

-Rudey

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Nope. Nope. Nope.

But a child in a reform camp isn't supposed to DIE; he's supposed to be reformed. In the instance of a prison mate's death, those are usually at the hands of other inmates, not the guards. You're absolutely correct; they aren't supposed to be fun in any measure. I'd bet that some camps aren't equipped enough to effectively reform some children who are placed there. But when children go in, they expect to be released to regular society, with or without some stipulations and some lessons learned. Not to go to camp to get better and die--that's not why they were sent. This boy had no chance of proving that he could be a better private citizen.

And even then, if it were a prison inmate (which it wasn't) the adminstration would have all of the asses of the guilty guards. If they didn't (or managed to cover it very nicely), Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson (as unfortunate as it is) would be there, protesting with the other groups aforementioned--haha.

The FAMU students said 'enough is enough' and chose to protest about THIS situation. What difference does it matter if they hadn't in the past? How often do you hear of camp kids getting beaten (even halfway) to death in this manner? The protestors brought the 'crew' in for obvious reasons. The more headlines an issue garners, the more attention (legislative, governmental, etc) is called to addressing/handling it.

enigma_AKA

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I mean aside from it not being fun to go to boot camp, do you realize what separates it from group therapy at the local ymca? I mean those guards are big and/or scary for a reason. So either you're subjected to a lot of physical labor or some type of violence to break you down and build you up again.

So do I believe that kids get beaten all the time in boot camps? Yes. Do I think it's on tape? No.

Every once in a while a soldier dies in a military boot camp also. It's sad and upsets people, but it doesn't draw on racial lines.

And I don't think anyone would be in trouble if an inmate killed another inmate. And they rape each other all the time. That's every guy's worst nightmare (well 90% of guys if the statistics are correct).

I wouldn't say it's a race issue if those protestors hadn't invited the two reverands, but they did. And that's sad to the kid who died and also to those who really do suffer because of a racial incident in the future and won't be taken as seriously.

-Rudey

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But Rudey--how many kids DIE in boot camp in that matter? For sure they are subject to SOME level of ridicule/physical torment in the form of labor or otherwise and you're correct, the guards and the environment is intimidating for a reason. And so it should be. But when you are intimidated, you're supposed to get some 'act right' or better yet, change your behaviors eventually as to not recieve punishment again (sort of a learned behaviorial adjustment). But when you die, you don't have the option of changing for the better. He wasn't supposed to DIE. And they didn't (not all of those big, manly-men; not any of them) had to beat him like THAT. It's the unneccessary death that I am fixated on, not the state of boot camps at this point.

Also, military boot camp is different. Grown men and women who are sent there are being sent to develop a thick skin for combat and other warfare neccessities by CHOICE. Not to say it's right if they die in boot camp, but they are there of their own volition, knowing the consequences of extreme physical stress and so forth. A child isn't sent to boot camp for these same reasons.

I won't say that if another Black kid dies, that it won't be taken seriously. I wouldn't even say the next minority victim case will not be taken seriously, either. I would hope that, for any race, if a child dies due to wrongful measures taken by the people who are there to protect him, that people would be up at arms. Hell, if Pat Robertson wanted to rally on a child's behalf, it wouldn't make the situation or the wrongful-ness of the situation, any less valid.

enigma_AKA
PS--You say most men in jail are raped? :eek: That would be a deterent for ANY man to be incarcerated. Rape is not the business.

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How many die? I don't know. Maybe it's zero prior to this but I really don't know.

Military boot camp isn't that much different. They take a kid that's as young as 17 and break him down and build him back up. It's not just about building a tough skin from what I understand but to build someone according to your specifications.

And it looks like a racial issue. If it wasn't the case they wouldn't mention anyone's race in the media or would have made a concerted effort to not invite the two reverands.

And I don't know what the statistic for rape in jail is but it's significant. They also released a study that said a lot of guys get AIDS in jail at a higher rate than the general public and when they're released they help spread it. I don't know why that doesn't scare someone into not wanting to go to jail. I've seen Oz, American Psycho, read Monster, and I would never ever want to be there.

-Rudey
--And the 90% thing was a reference to guys that are supposedly straight.

I forgot who on GC said it:

"Conservatives don't have time to protest...we have to go to work."

So Pro-lifers and Pro-death penalty picketers aren't conservatives? :confused: Or maybe they just care enough to see if *maybe* something gets changed if they raise their voices loud enough? It's been done before...

enigma_AKA

(in case someone wanted an update. This article is from the FSView and yes, they made a mistake on 'alumni' instead of alumna. Also, info can be found on wikipedia:
here
This article below is from here )

Story image 1

Photo by: Rob Davis
The March for Justice for Martin Lee Anderson, led by FSU, FAMU and TCC students, headed down St. Augustine Street toward the Capitol Friday, April 21.
Students lead historic march in Tallahassee
March for Justice brings national attention to Martin Lee Anderson case

Lauren Walleser

April 24, 2006

A sea of students from Florida State University, Florida A&M University and Tallahassee Community College, all wearing black shirts that read "The Next Emmet Till???" rallied and marched Friday, April 21 for justice in the death of 14-year-old Martin Lee Anderson.

The students marched from their respective schools to the Donald L. Tucker Center, where they met up with community members, faculty members, the Revs. Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, the family of Martin Lee Anderson and other dignitaries and political figures, and all continued the march to the Capitol building where speakers voiced the reasons for the march and made demands for action to be taken by government officials in the case.

Anderson died Jan. 6, 2005 in a Bay County boot camp after being beaten by guards employed by the state. The first autopsy report on Anderson following his death, conducted by medical examiner Charles Siebert, said that he died of natural causes related to a sickle cell anemia trait. When the tape of Anderson being kneed and punched by guards was released, however, state attorney Mark Ober ordered a second autopsy to reveal that Anderson did not die of natural causes. Anderson's body had to be unearthed from his grave in order for the second autopsy to be conducted.

"We know how Martin died," said Benjamin Crump, attorney for the family of Martin Lee Anderson. "They are going to remember this case for one of two reasons. Either because they got away with it, or because the people demanded justice and got justice."

Marchers chanted messages of justice and peace and sang "We Shall Overcome," making the march reminiscent of the civil rights marches in the 1960s. Some of the slogans being chanted were "This is what democracy looks like," "No justice, no peace," and "What do we want? Justice! When do we want it? Now!" Student Government leaders from all three universities led their fellow students with megaphones and kept the energy high throughout the morning.

"Student leadership from FSU, FAMU, TCC got together and realized that we as young people in this city need to address a real issue of injustice that's going on and do what is necessary to mobilize students and ensure that the governor and the government knows that we're here, that we're watching them, and that we're going to hold them accountable for their inactions in this case," said Gabe Pendas, FSU Student Senate president. "The governor continues to say that he's doing everything he can in this case, and as we know, before the sit-in (which took place April 19), nothing was really getting done. The governor really didn't take any action. I keep thinking back to Terry Schiavo, and how much he did for that woman, and is Martin Lee any less of a person than Terry Schiavo? Not only that, but he was killed by people from the state, who worked for our government, and nothing's being done. So after the sit-in, we're seeing the FDLE commissioner resign. We're seeing the government make commitments to prosecute all those (at fault) to the fullest extent of the law."

Students and community members also held signs and banners with various messages expressing their horror at what happened to Anderson and demanding justice for his death. Several people also held posters with the image of Anderson smiling in his graduation photo, and contrasting photos of Anderson lying in his coffin. All of the speakers who headlined the rally commended the students who began the Coalition and organized the march for their dedication to the cause.

"It is historic because the young people are doing the leading today," Crump said. "It's a wonderful thing to send the young people to class to learn a history lesson, but it's another thing for them to live a history lesson."

The Revs. Sharpton and Jackson – who were brought to Tallahassee by Crump and his associate Daryl Parks – sat onstage with Tallahassee Mayor John Marks, who also spoke, and shared words of solidarity and standing up for justice with marchers.

Sharpton said that Anderson did not die of a sickle cell trait, but was killed because of "an African American trait."

"When you hit Martin in Florida, you hit Al in New York. You hit Jesse in Chicago," Sharpton said.

Jackson and many other African American attendees said that they had the sickle cell trait and were healthy and would live long lives, arguing that the likelihood of dying from the trait is very low.

"We didn't come to lead a march, we came to follow the young people," Sharpton said. "(The media) want to show the hip-hop generation shaking their booties. They want to show the hip-hop generation cussing out black women. They want to show the hip-hop generation disrespecting their elders. They need to show the hip-hop generation standing up for justice."

FSU Vice President for Student Affairs Mary Coburn didn't attend the march, but other representatives from Student Affairs did.

"I just keep thinking about the quote about "when they came for the Jews, I wasn't Jewish so I didn't do anything about it. When they came for the Catholics, I wasn't Catholic and I didn't do anything about it" and you go through all the different groups of people and then "when they came for me, nobody came,"" Coburn said. "And so, I think it's just really inspirational that our students are so involved with this and care so much about what happens to other people."

Many parents brought their children, some in strollers, to the march and the Tallahassee Boy's Choir performed and danced on the steps of the Old Capitol Building.

Katisa Donaldson, alumni of FSU and professor of Social Work at FAMU, shared why she felt she needed to attend the march.

"Being a professor up at FAMU in the Social Work department, we are showing how the justice is not being served, and honestly to say that if you can't discipline your child in public and get away with it, how can seven officers brutally beat a child to death and walk away?" Donaldson said.

The rally lasted at the Capitol from 10 a.m. to noon, and the majority of students stood in the sun, despite the heat, for the full two hours

"I think a lot of times students are complaining about the state of the world and they're not really doing anything," said FSU Student Tabitha Chester. "This is a great opportunity for students to get politically involved and actually show that we do care. The generation today still wants to fight."

The speakers emphasized that the march was not the end or the solution to the problem but would help to shed light on the situation and aid in justice being served.

slight tangent
 

...I don't mean to be awful, just saw this post and remembered an article that I read in the Washington Post last Thursday, 4/21, called "Few Men Found to Get HIV in Prison" if you want to search it on their website...but they said that:

"Although male prisoners have a relatively high rate of HIV infection, very few of them acquire the virus while behind bars, according to a federal study that is the largest and longest one to look at the issue." .. "About 90 percent of HIV-positive men in Georgia's prison system -- the nation's fifth largest -- were infected before they arrived, the study found. Over a 17-year period, 88 men became infected in prison by the virus that causes AIDS, chiefly through same-sex intercourse. Georgia prisons currently house about 45,000 men."

This article also addressed the rape issue, saying that 3/4 of all sexual encounters were consensual.

Hope I'm not butting in, just thought I'd share this, since I remembered the article, and pulled it back up after reading this.