She called him fifty pennies.....fifty pennies....LOL

White rapper I take strong offense to the comment that there are a small supply of quality black men. I beg to differ. There are a proportionate number of quality black men who have not been a part of the system, as you yourself have. On behalf of my black men, I will say that we must do our best to educate ourselves and become positive role models in our communities and families. You seem to me to be the type of person who wants desperately to be the "hard core" individual. You characterize yourself not as a rapper, but instead the "white" rapper. What does incareration have to do with dating black women? Please think before you post because although you may rap (which does not give you a pass to the hood), have been incarerated, and date black women, you still at the end of the day are not black!

I agree with all that's being said, and I strongly believe that one person can make a difference. When I was in undergrad, MOST of the black guys thought they were "elite, one of the guys women want, the bees knees" just b/c they were getting a degree. You should've seen them. I mean, they would really say crazy things trying to make people think that they should be admired for going to school. Now, don't get me wrong, I am always proud when ANY black person goes to school, but please don't act like you are the first person to do it. And you most definitely will not be the last. They had their orgs, black male pride orgs, but they usually consisted of meetings on how they were "a rare species." I hardly ever saw them at any community service events, volunteering, nothing.

These are the people that our other black males should be listening to b/c they are/have been through it, but who wants to listen to someone who is cocky?? Who wants to sit there and listen to you talk about yourself? And it wasn't just guys at my school, my friends at other schools acted the same way. In my opinion, going to school is something that you are SUPPOSED to do, no need to brag about it :rolleyes: But that's just how I was raised. I'm sure that those we need to help want to hear success stories, but they also want to know how they can succeed as well.

I somewhat agree, but the reason I tell my story to my students is because I want them to understand that I could have been the incarerated cousin, or I could've been the dead friend, or the drug dealing baby-daddy. However, I want them to know that life is about choices that I made. I want them to know that EXCUSES are not a solution or a reason to settle for less. That is why I tell my story. And to some, I probably do seem "cocky", but I (just like many other of my peers, and ancestors) beat the system and the odds!

And I am happy that you did! :D Please continue to tell your story to them. Everyone needs someone to look up to.

I observe this opinion alot as well, especially at work. Many of my co-workers think they are the gift to every lonely Black woman in America.

Back to the topic-
I literally have students who tell me that they have no desire to do anything in life productive, how can you want to be an aspiring loser at 14 years old? I already know this has to do with socioeceonomic status, parents, etc. but it can be so depressing. Many of my kids didn't have a chance coming out the gate. What makes this so disturbing is depsite the obstacles my students deal with the Hispanics and White males may not want a formal education but they have no problem with the theme of the military or working.

KAPPATivating, I think 'white rapper' is a troll/joke; we all know how absurd his post(s) is/are. :rolleyes: I wouldn't take him serious...

As far as the discussion is concerned, I think a lot of it has to do with our connection to our history/struggle (amongst other reasons). Many people, especially those of my generation, are out of touch with what it took for them to get here. Many aren't appreciative of just how the odds were against them, how much sacrifice and so forth it took just to get decent wages/adequate living opportunities. This added to a shift of values without proper education/means (i.e. parents/single parent who think it's better for their child to look good/play basketball than it is to sit down and do homework with them after school added to poor school conditions, etc) has allowed a sense of complaceny.

Especially with the Black male. The emasculation of Black men from slavery, prevalent fear of Black men, devaluing of their counterparts (Black women) and social/institutional barriers to real, quantified success (excluding professional sports membership and entertainment)...it's been a long, destructive cycle. So, now, it's time to break it.

enigma_AKA

COMEDY and completely untrue....

and

My Soror Enigma alluded to it, but I want to hone it is some more:

What IS the BLACK MAN? What is his definition? What does it mean for him to be a MAN?

I have my definition--my father and my grandfather... Both are exceptional men who accomplished a lot--especially my grandfather who was a pioneer in his time. A Black man in the south, attended college, got a degree, got a Master's degree--by the early 1930's. Then worked with Mary McLeod Bethune, then became the President of Bethune-Cookman... They DON'T make them like that anymore... I only knew him as my granddaddy. But others knew him a great man. Still others in his own family, his sons hated him because he and his wife believed in the chastenining rod to discipline children--what would clearly be labeled as abuse by today's standards...

My father was allowed privilege due to my grandfather's sacrifices. He became a dentist from Meharry--it was either Meharry or Howard back in the day... He worked very hard for that degree. But he endured racism and bigotry throughout his life and career. He's still holding on, but age and health is still not the best for him... Just like my grandfather, he's still blessed with those wonderful health conditions that old African American men suffer...

It's one thing for you mama to tell you to do something... It's another when your dad has to tell you to do something... And it's another when your granddad-especially like mine--had to tell you do something--and he didn't tell you to do it, twice...

But my question still remains: What is the definition of a Black MAN?

I am blessed to have found "my definition" in my husband. He is a nerdy goofy fuzz ball... But then again, so am I--and he's truly a MAN in all sense of the word. Loving, caring, manly, hard-working, very intelligent, and he attended Morehouse--where too many brothas are uber-cocky--I know I attended Spelman--and we are just as saditity... ;)

I don't think there is a "definition" of a man. There are many things that go into factoring that. I consider myself a man because I know the essence of how to take care of myself, and I have beaten the odds that were against me. I do agree with you that your grandfather and father are both good men, but God does make them like that still. It all depends where you look to find us. In my opinion, a man can take care of what ever situation he gets himself in, and can also be willing to admit his own faults along with his successes.

Interesting Thread
 

The plight of the Black Man, what a topic. I think that ultimately we have to recognize the complexity of our circumatance to begin to understand the plight.

To be a man in a eurocentric, patriarchal society requires you to assume a certain role in the social stratum that calls for an overwhelming degree of alienation (i.e. being something you, by nature, are not). Masculinity in this society requires a desire to dominate the people, space, and resources around you (hence the notions of Manifest destiny and imperialism of the 19th and 20th Centuries). When these values are injected into a capitalist economy, power equates with capital ownership. So a real man has to own capital, under this definition. A "real man" also has to dominate women physically, economically, and sexually (hence the double standard about sexual promiscuity among the sexes). Couple these assertions with the assumptions of a white supremacist society (a de facto caste society in which blackness equates to perpetual social disfranchisement and political exclusion), and the black man finds himself chasing a masculinity that he can never obtain. This results in black men being at the brunt of social demonization and exploitation, and ultimately personal alienation and the exhibition of what are deemed "self-destructive" risky behaviors (i.e. drug abuse, hyper sexuality, greed and criminality). We must instead impress upon our young men that masculinity is not predicated on power (read money in our society check the notion of "Get Rich or Die Tryin' ", we'd rather be dead than poor). Instead, we should champion a masculinity that develops within young men a sense of purpose grounded in the pursuit of knowledge, wisdom, understanding, peace, discipline, and most importanlty love (traits that more accurately describe Jesus). This would in turn create in us a more critical mind that would reject the spiritual, mental, and ultimately physical death that is White, European Masculinity.

There have been some interesting proposals in this thread to deal with this issue, from simply bootstrapping ourselves to military discipline ( I have reservations with this notion, but I'll deal with those in another post). But, no one has mentioned a critical movement grounded in the consciousness of love. In order to begin to address the plight of black men, we must first affirm our love for black men (and boys). We must stop the perceptual demonization of our black men. In the book The Covenant compiled by Tavis Smiley's foundation, there is a chapter dealing with how black men were characterised as super-criminal by the Bush Administration in 1999. This was but one instance in the long history of the demonization of the image of the black man by the American power elite. It is out of this history that we come to have policy directives that serve to disproportionately incarcerate, disfranchise, and physically destroy black men. We have to begin to assert that the recent hype over the disproportinate social disengagement of black men since the late 80's (Check the article in this thread) has to culminate in an affirmation of the black man as fully human and his condition is the result of systemic evil, not moral, intellectual, or spiritual defect (or at least not any more than any other people have). Once we assert that the black man is worthy of the resources needed to elevate his condition, then we will be at ease with rendering the resources necessary to deal with said condition.

Next, we as a nation must see that inequality and poverty, especially in light of such a prosperous nation, is indeed immoral. We must maintain a critical consciousness of such bedrock institutions such as our educational, penal, medical, and governmantal entities. This critical consciousness must be guided by our love of justice, peace, and righteousness. We cannot let, as Dr. Cornell West describes as "Market Fundamentalism" be the overarching value of our people. "It sells" cannot justify criminal, exlpoitive , and dehumanizing behavior by us nor by the power elite. Where is our poor people's campaign? Our socialist consciousness? Before the notion gets dismissed, like it generally does in these forums, please someone tell me how we can have a collective struggle for freedom, justice, and equality within a system (political, social, and economic) that sees these things as "idealistic" at best and "impossible" at worst. How can we "overcome" if we don't have as a normative value the essential equality of all people, regardless of socio-economic status? Simply becomming better capitalists splinters us more as a people, because the very system of capitalism is predicated upon inequality, exploitation, and competition. These values are counter-intutitive to collective struggle.

Our black men have disproportionate plight because we are disproportionately deprived of a democratic right to life, liberty, and self-determination. On the surface, it may seem that oppressed people are simply making bad choices, but with further examination of the contexts under which many live, we can see that limited capital constrains choice in a capitalistic society. We cherish our moral tradition, and we should always champion discipline, righteousness, personal responsibility and wisdom for everyone, regardless of social condition. But what about the moral correctness of the "Heaven on Earth" (read as social equality) championed by Jesus Christ himself. In doing this, we must consider the just-ness of, as Stokley Carmichael explained in Black Power, the "internal colonies" not only of the so called Ghetto, but of a population of black people whose only resourse is labor which gets exploited by power elites.


Blackwatch!!!!!!

^^^
 

Phrat Blackwatch:

Again, you hit the proverbial nail right onto the "hands" and "feet"... ;)

And you said something that I had forgotten: To save our boys and men of African descent is to grounded in "love"--in the truest sense...

Now that dennotative definition of love has to be transcendent--the kind of love that becomes the true essence of the Spirit.

However, to get to that point, requires a "blood sacrifice"--usually. Someone or some people are going to have to die, needlessly for the Ethereal to respond or invocation to reach and change hearts...

That is just one way it could happen. There may be plenty others. We can define and redefine, but what is practical?

The flip side of this debate is who is rearing these boys into physical men--albeit behaviorally deemed in this society as dysfunctional? More often than not, it is "babies raising babies" or "grandma with a bunch a kids dropped off by absent and neglectful parents"... Grandma may be too old to handle what soceital pressures go on today and does the best she can with what she has. Maybe she cannot do anymore--so what should we have expected?

The other issue is little girls having babies in the worst kind of conditions. Namely, what 12 year old really will know to have prenatal care? And if it is bad for Black boys, how far behind are Black girls? Just 5 years from now, Black girls will catch up, too...

Stopgap measurements: some say is "early childhood development" programs--all cut by the current US administration and somewhat before.

The study has just summarily written off an entire generation. And that is what I find that sucks about this situation...

Meanwhile, the Boys and Girls Clubs of America celebrates 100 years of its existance...

Go figure...

:( Yes the state of African American Males is sad, most of the jobs if they are lucky to get one are out in the suburban areas. Those in the inner city lack the skills and transportation to get to those jobs. So, I think an alternative would be for them to learn a trade or skill such as apprenticeship programs in electiricity, carpentry, computer etc. to them for possible consideration. They need to look beyond just acquiring a job -look at vocational education, apprenticeship, and entrepreneurial activities to attract and keep their interest rather than become fodder for the prison system!

I called my grandmother's neighbor and gave him a job lead for the White Sox baseball park. I gave the info to his mom so hopefully she relays the info. :D It only pays minimum wage but hey, it's better than nothing! :D

Now if only someone would call me with a job lead :o

No need to be hatin. I am just keepin it real. I calle it the way I see it.