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-   -   Polygamy Activism Rises (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=76714)

VandalSquirrel 03-21-2006 07:46 PM

A few years ago a friend spent a year working with the Utah state government. She told me a huge problem with the polygamists is actually in the realm of public assistance. Since only the first wife is recognized legally, all subsequent wives and their children are eligible for public assistance and the tax payers of Utah are financially supporting polygamy even though there are laws against it.

Granted the above story about the government is anecdotal, but let's pretend polygamy is legal for a moment. All of these women would be on government records somewhere, and perhaps there would be less marriages of teenage girls. If you grow up in that environment you may not realize there are options, and this may be one more way to prevent minors from being forced into a situation they don't want to really be in. The main reason polygamy was outlawed was for the state of Utah to be admitted to the Union, and it appears not everyone wanted it to go away or it wouldn't still exist in much of the inland West. It is illegal and that hasn't stopped it from happening, so why not make it legal and at least there could be some tracking and 14 year old Desert Zion won't be forced to be the eighth wife of the 67 year old Brigham Nephi.

I am still trying to find the comparison between marrying a non human animal and consenting adults entering into an agrred upon union. 33girl's dad can you explain it to me?

Oh and here's an article on a polygamist judge. Even those who were chosen to uphold the law practice it.

Rudey 03-21-2006 07:49 PM

Obviously you're a freak that believes in polygamy.

-Rudey

Quote:

Originally posted by VandalSquirrel
A few years ago a friend spent a year working with the Utah state government. She told me a huge problem with the polygamists is actually in the realm of public assistance. Since only the first wife is recognized legally, all subsequent wives and their children are eligible for public assistance and the tax payers of Utah are financially supporting polygamy even though there are laws against it.

Granted the above story about the government is anecdotal, but let's pretend polygamy is legal for a moment. All of these women would be on government records somewhere, and perhaps there would be less marriages of teenage girls. If you grow up in that environment you may not realize there are options, and this may be one more way to prevent minors from being forced into a situation they don't want to really be in. The main reason polygamy was outlawed was for the state of Utah to be admitted to the Union, and it appears not everyone wanted it to go away or it wouldn't still exist in much of the inland West. It is illegal and that hasn't stopped it from happening, so why not make it legal and at least there could be some tracking and 14 year old Desert Zion won't be forced to be the eighth wife of the 67 year old Brigham Nephi.

I am still trying to find the comparison between marrying a non human animal and consenting adults entering into an agrred upon union. 33girl's dad can you explain it to me?

Oh and here's an article on a polygamist judge. Even those who were chosen to uphold the law practice it.


TristanDSP 03-21-2006 07:52 PM

[OFF TOPIC]

Hey VandalSquirrel, just out of curiousity, does it really matter to people at U of I how bad your football and basketball teams are, or is it like my school where no one really cares until you win?

[/OFF TOPIC]

honeychile 03-21-2006 09:28 PM

I don't know if this is what was referred to earlier, but someone forwarded this to me last week. It's actually somewhat funny, if taken in the right way.

As for "Doin' The Dog", try this about Massachusetts elected officials outlawing beastiality.

Let me say upfront that these are both from a conservative source, and I'm not posting these to defend them in any way - other than the humor value! That and the dog looks just like my brother's one Doberman.

http://www.alainsnewsletter.com/images/futurefamily.jpg

VandalSquirrel 03-22-2006 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rudey
Obviously you're a freak that believes in polygamy.

-Rudey

I'm more concerned with the horrific Utah liquor laws than with polygamy, but the topic was brought up and really, how would it negatively affect any of us? They are doing it anyway and if legalizing it prevents minor girls from being secretly married to creepy old dudes in the name of Jesus (albeit an extremely twisted version) I am all for it. People live in all kinds of open marriages and funky arrangements, but it is the minor issue and the welfare abuse that is my concern.

VandalSquirrel 03-22-2006 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TristanDSP
[OFF TOPIC]

Hey VandalSquirrel, just out of curiousity, does it really matter to people at U of I how bad your football and basketball teams are, or is it like my school where no one really cares until you win?

[/OFF TOPIC]

Oh man, no one really cares about the men's basketball team, and they care too much about the football team. We're on coach number three in as many years, but we're hoping he will get things together. However the football players keep the campus paper full of news by getting into fights with fraternity members (and kicking in chapter house doors while impersonating another fraternity), and getting DUIs. I'm just sad we lost Beyonce's brother in law :(

PiKA2001 03-22-2006 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by VandalSquirrel
I'm more concerned with the horrific Utah liquor laws than with polygamy, but the topic was brought up and really, how would it negatively affect any of us? They are doing it anyway and if legalizing it prevents minor girls from being secretly married to creepy old dudes in the name of Jesus (albeit an extremely twisted version) I am all for it. People live in all kinds of open marriages and funky arrangements, but it is the minor issue and the welfare abuse that is my concern.
So you're saying that if they legalize polygamy it would put a stop to these men marrying the young teens?

Doubt it. They do it in secret now and they would do it in secret if polygamy ever did become legal. A creep is a creep no matter what the laws are. I don't care what kind of cult or wackey ass religion these people believe in, because this is america ( land of the free ) but I am not willing to pay for it.

VandalSquirrel 03-22-2006 04:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by PiKA2001
So you're saying that if they legalize polygamy it would put a stop to these men marrying the young teens?

Doubt it. They do it in secret now and they would do it in secret if polygamy ever did become legal. A creep is a creep no matter what the laws are. I don't care what kind of cult or wackey ass religion these people believe in, because this is america ( land of the free ) but I am not willing to pay for it.

I'm not saying it would disappear completely. How many other things are against the law and still take place? The point I am making is that by making it legal (and this would be a state issue, not a federal one), those who chose to be bigamists and polygamists would be documented and there would be record keeping. Taxpayers are already paying to support it because the marriages are not recognized and subsequent wives/households are receiving WIC, medicaid, and other assistance.

I'd give you a link to the newspaper article with the hard statistics, but it appears the newspaper's website is currently down.

Taualumna 03-22-2006 10:56 AM

Even if they did legalize polygamy, there may still be issues with young girls being victims. I don't know what the marriageable age in Utah is, but if under 18s (say 16 or 17) can marry with parental/guardian permission, then I'd be worried too. Some lower income families are willing to sign off their kids for marriage because it's one less mouth to feed.

Lady Pi Phi 03-22-2006 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Taualumna
Even if they did legalize polygamy, there may still be issues with young girls being victims. I don't know what the marriageable age in Utah is, but if under 18s (say 16 or 17) can marry with parental/guardian permission, then I'd be worried too. Some lower income families are willing to sign off their kids for marriage because it's one less mouth to feed.
Where did you find that statistic?

I find that extremely hard to belive that in North America families would be wiling to give permission for their underaged children to wed simply because they can't feed them. There are far too many resources in Canada and The US to see a high incedence of that happening.

33girl 03-22-2006 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lady Pi Phi
Where did you find that statistic?

I find that extremely hard to belive that in North America families would be wiling to give permission for their underaged children to wed simply because they can't feed them. There are far too many resources in Canada and The US to see a high incedence of that happening.

Actually, in the really backwoodsy places (think Heaven by VC Andrews) yeah, I can see that happening. There's still more abject poverty around than you would think.

HotDamnImAPhiMu 03-22-2006 11:12 AM

I can't remember who said it, but I think I read it here and it sums up the situation quite succinctly:

Why are we legislating each others' sex lives?

Child endangerment/molestation/abuse and animal abuse are entirely different topics. Yes, there are polygamists who commit these acts; but there are far more monogamists who commit the same crimes, and I don't see any legislation to end monogamy.

Rudey 03-22-2006 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by HotDamnImAPhiMu
I can't remember who said it, but I think I read it here and it sums up the situation quite succinctly:

Why are we legislating each others' sex lives?

Child endangerment/molestation/abuse and animal abuse are entirely different topics. Yes, there are polygamists who commit these acts; but there are far more monogamists who commit the same crimes, and I don't see any legislation to end monogamy.

Why is it animal abuse? Animals are tested, tortured, beaten, forced to live in tiny cages, and then eaten. That is all considered humane. If you want the government out of the bedroom, surely beastiality can't qualify for morality bans. Heck sometimes it's all about emotional love and nothing physical, then does someone have a right to marry a dog?

And that girl's reasoning is beyond stupid. I'm sure the proponents of slavery also believed in the 2 birds with 1 stone logic since slavery would lower crime in black neighborhoods. She's just a poloygamist.

-Rudey

HotDamnImAPhiMu 03-22-2006 11:52 AM

The animal can't make a choice, which is the difference for me. I still say abuse is a seperate issue. Sure, marry your dog. But if you're having sex with the dog, the dog should be taken away. I'm not sure what the repercussions are for beastiality other than that.

Again, I think the operative words here are "consenting adults". Knock yourselves out. Just keep it to "consenting adults".


My roommate in college used to tell me there shouldn't be interracial dating because "you don't see bluebirds with redbirds."

Rudey 03-22-2006 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by HotDamnImAPhiMu
The animal can't make a choice, which is the difference for me. I still say abuse is a seperate issue. Sure, marry your dog. But if you're having sex with the dog, the dog should be taken away. I'm not sure what the repercussions are for beastiality other than that.

Again, I think the operative words here are "consenting adults". Knock yourselves out. Just keep it to "consenting adults".


My roommate in college used to tell me there shouldn't be interracial dating because "you don't see bluebirds with redbirds."

The animal couldn't make a choice when we were spilling chemicals on it to make sure that a shampoo that has been safe for ages is still safe. It sure as hell couldn't make a choice when it had a pipe forced down its throat so it could be fed quicker. It surely had no choice when it was beaten to death in a butchery that wanted to keep the meat tender while giving its butchers a few minutes of fun.

And I'm not exactly sure how beastiality works but I bet an animal likes physical pleasure and comes wanting more of that good old human loving. You might know better so share some stories.

-Rudey


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