Ditto - Beta will not hesitate to yank one of our chaters, even if Sam Walton or John Wooden were still in school....doesn't matter. Wrong is wrong, no matter your heritage.

I don't think it's always hypocrisy that drives that type of disproportionate treatment. I always see a lot of factors play into this such as previous history, assets of the chapter, alumni support, possibility for recolonization, etc.

I think it's important that they consider all factors. Not just what some dumb 19 year old brother (or even the President) did.

all you E's out there...
 

Is the Mu Chapter of SAE the founding chapter?

Re: all you E's out there...
 

yes. alabama mu at the university of alabama at tuscaloosa.

i know that they were on alumni commission before, but i dont know if they had ever had there charter pulled.

I think it is safe to say that all chapters are subject to the same standards and scruitiny, but some long-standing chapters may carry more clout because of their age and/or the campus climate, depending on the GLO and the university and the situation in question.

I'm pretty certain that our National would not give preferential treatment when it came to pulling a charter, but I think that it would be a different story where recolonization is concerned. That is, I could totally see them being quicker to recolonize a closed chapter at a big, prestigious school before they'd recolonize a chapter at a smaller, lesser-known one. For example, I joined DZ when it was being recolonized at UK and we were given lots of attention, which was rumored to be because UK is a pretty big SEC school and National wanted to make sure that the chapter there survived. Whether that's the gospel truth or not I don't know, but it does make a lot of sense.

Absolutely - not every situation is equal, and I think other factors have to be taken into consideration before something so drastic is done.

We pulled our LSU chapter which was a pretty large chapter . but that was public relations nightmare . . . I think a farm animal died. They recolonized though.

Ksigkid, I think our Zeta Chapter (founding chapter in Virginia) and Fabulous Beta might have a little more leeway on getting away with some stufff.

Thats what I think AZNSAE meant right? Chapters that might get away with more than other chapters because of size or prestige?

I agree.

People need to understand that there always will be politics and "who knows whom" when talking about national GLOs' dealings with undergraduate chapters (and alumnae/graduate chapters).

I don't know - I was thinking about the Tau chapter, how it had a long history and still had it's charter pulled. That may have been an extreme case, but it showed to me that no chapter was immune.

You could be right though, Zeta could get more leeway by virtue of who they are.

There was this frat that got their charter yanked b/c of one asshole. A pledge complained to the their Nationals about the drinking that went on b/c he was a recovering alcoholic & didn't think that they should be drinking. He documented every time he saw an underage member drinkin, who was around, who didn't stop him, etc. He then wrote a long letter to their nationals & sent in all his "evidence" & didn't threaten but made it clear that it would look unsavory to the school & the frat if this became public knowledge. Next day of school, this frat was no longer recognized by the campus & then had their charter pulled. None of their members were allowed to go alum. It was sad & I believe that their members are still trying to at least get alum status from their Nationals if not get their charter & recognition back.

I think you have to be pretty naive to think that the policies don't differ based on which chapter it is. Strong SEC chapters, Ivy League school chapters, and anything comparable will always get more "second" (and third, and fourth) chances than those at smaller schools. For example? When our Stanford chapter violated risk management policies, what did they get? Social probation. When our Bucknell chapter violated those policies? Closed. Obviously I don't know enough about the individual situations to know if the two situations were comparable -- maybe they weren't. But I'd bet anything that the prestige of the chapters was a factor.

Maybe I'm just cynical, but I'll be the first person in this thread to say that our Ole Miss/Texas/Bama/UGA/etc. chapters would probably have to do something pretty horrendous to get their charter pulled.

Any facts? Sounds like an urban legend to me.

Yeah. I was at the school with the frat in question. We were supposed to have an exchange w/them but everything was cancelled b/c of the liability insurance & stuff. Also, their President came to talk to us & he verified everything to us. This happened just last year. My former campus lost 3 frats in one year for various reasons.

The thing is, that one incident might be true, and it may have led to the charter being pulled for that chapter, but nobody else knows what ELSE was going on with that chapter or how long it had been going on. It isn't as though GLOs advertise to all their IFC/NPC buddies that they are on alert, probation, being watched carefully, etc. That's between the chapters and their headquarters. I've never seen a chapter (my personal experience here, not heresay) that we didn't put huge resources into trying to turn things before it closed. For all you know, that fraternity was on probation and had already had upteen warnings.

The fact that we closed our Alpha chapter and our Chi chapter (Michigan State) at almost the same time speaks volumes.

Dee

ETA: We've only closed chapters because of low membership over the last several years. When a chapter has a house that houses 60 and has 5 members and you've tried everything to turn it around, you're out of options.