TxGirl, at some colleges, jrs. and srs. are "free" in regard to quota. However wonderful that may be for the jrs. and srs., the poor sophs. can sometimes be left out. Of course, everyone would prefer freshmen (theoretically 4 years of active membership), but a lot of superb members have probably been lost just because they were not freshmen.

Your idea of separate quotas for the non-freshmen sounds pretty good, but it would probably be more work than Greek Life would want to handle!

Okay, I do applied mathmatics for a living, and I think there is a lot that can be done to improve release figures.

For example, in the 3-year average system that is normally used on my campus, if a chapter has return rates of 30%, 40% and 50% the past three years, their release figures will be calculated based on a 40% return rate (meaning they get to invite back temporary quota * number of parties in this round / 40%). However, they are obviously getting better each year, and are likely to have at least a 50% return rate.

HOWEVER, I am very wary of the new RFM. NPC will not publish how this is calculated, and makes vague references to a 'release figures specialist'. I put very little stock in the idea that the NPC release figure specialist can be totally unbiased and has the special expertise to pick numbers that will maximize the number of bids on bid day.

So what do we do? We should improve our forecasting methods using proven mathmatical forecasting strategies. Rather than some 'specialist' who allegedly has knowledge of recruitment, this is a mathmatical problem that should be solved by people like, well, me (of course with the aid of software designed for this and used widely in industries like mine).

Of course, this depends on whether you use the numbers from last year alone or if you factor in return rates from early rounds in the later rounds, but I see no problem with the former option. It doesn't matter if XYZ has 100% returns each round if their prefs are terrible and nobody ranks them #1 on pref night.

FR aside, I would also make total a more dynamic number. What if it was set after formal recruitment so exactly half the chapters are still able to COR if they make quota? So going into FR, you have six chapters with 90, 92, 92, 95, 97, and 100. Quota is 50. Total then becomes 145, so the bottom three chapters have 5, 3, and 3 spots open assuming they each make quota.

I simply cannot believe that there are STILL schools without "free seniors", if not "free juniors & seniors"!!! I already know of one senior who was cut completely because she's a senior. I feel like banging together the heads of her local Panhellenic!!

haha, hell hath no fury like a honeychile scorned.

Actually, thinking of my own experience - my Big Sister was a Senior (when we had Upperclass, then Freshman rush). Had Seniors not been "free", I would have missed out on a great friendship!

i am not 1000% sure, but i believe last year at convention, they explained that the "release figures specialist" was actually a mathematician who did some crazy figuring to get these numbers. as far as how they got them, beats me. even if it was explained, i would have stopped paying attention in a second.

i think it is great that the chapters with stronger reputations now have to release more women earlier in the process. i think it is more likely that they will stay with recruitment and check out the other chapters.

i actually agree with the guys here...somewhat anyway. first of all, there really is no panhellenic spirit when it comes to helping out the smallest chapter during recruitment. where do these reputations of being the weakest or worst or whatever come from.....current members of the system (both male and female) blabbing on and on about things they don't really know. for some systems where recruitment starts before school, the pnms here this info from friends at the school, siblings, family members in the alum groups in the area. "we here so and so is the weakest group and they are going to close." did they hear that from so and so's hq??? was there a story in the campus newspaper stating that so & so is leaving campus? no. just people spreading rumors.

girls who drop out mid week are not going to cob. the reason they drop out is bc the perceived best chapters drop them. they have no interest in becoming a member of the other chapters (or even giving them the chance) or else they would have stayed in recruitment.

as far as girls who go through the whole week, attend multiple pref parties and then go bidless....well, this is where i think that guarenteed bidding can be a benefit. but only for women who play by the rules all week and attend all of the parties (up to the number that they can) each day.

i also like the idea of having free seniors or juniors (for those schools with recruitment freshman year). we preach all the time that joining a sorority is for life...but only if you join as a freshman. that is just plain silly.

hehe, don't cross honeychile. :D

Seniors should be free... or better yet, juniors and seniors should be free, or have a separate quota. This would encourage chapters to look at juniors and seniors separately and not just cut them for not being freshmen. Even at the relatively laid-back northeastern school I attended, it was rare for a junior or senior (or soph) to get a bid via FR. I hate watching non-freshmen go bidless just because they're not freshmen.

Here's a question...are sophomore women who are not bid or drop out for various reasons or sign independent ALSO considered Off Quota at your universities? At Otterbein, if you drop out, turn down a bid or decide to sign independent as a freshman, in your sophomore year you are also considered "off quota", without necessarily having to go through the rush process again (nominated by a member of a chapter and agreed upon via voting) but some DO go through rush again, and are considered off quota still.

Juniors and seniors arn't free at Auburn, and I think that stinks :(

Auburn doesn't have free upperclassman?!

I honestly feel that most schools would have at least a 20% increase of greeks, if "free upperclassman" was in place. One of the women I know who was cut simply could not afford sorority until her junior year - she's enrolled at a private & pricey school (I'd rather not say the name at this time). Frankly, I think that says something about her willingness to be responsible for her dues & tuition.

Nope. It's one of those schools where girls who arn't freshman get cut more often.

We lose far more fraternities on a regular basis than we do sororities. The last time my campus lost a sorority was in the early 1990s, but we lose a fraternity every other year or so. This pattern is reflected on larger and smaller scales at every campus across the country. I'm not sure your plan is the best way to maximize membership. The fraternities have certainly not escaped the weak house/strong house designations -- that's not just a sorority thing.

I think there are three things that need to be happening:
1) Move away from the huge, competitive, formal rush systems into a more informal rush. The more informal rush is, the less pressure -- and the less pressure, the more likely it is that a girl will judge a house on its character and sisterhood instead of its reputation (and vice versa). It's these intense rushes where everyone's so focused on only getting the perfect girls/the perfect house that cuts are so heavy.
2) Be open to taking girls who aren't so young, or who have rushed more than once. Older girls who have been around school for a while have established themselves (you know what they're about), and they're (I hate to stereotype, but this is true) more likely to choose a chapter based on the deep-down stuff rather than the superficial. Maybe not a LOT more likely, but at least somewhat more likely. Separate quotas based on school year might help this. For EACH school year -- sophomores included.
3) Total needs to be examined and reset much, much more often than it is. At most campuses, nobody's even looked at the number in years, let alone thought about changing it. At my school, total is the same now as it was fifteen years ago when the average sorority size was a good 40 women higher. We need to stay on top of this number because the ideal total for a campus changes so much, and having it too high or too low can drastically affect membership. (For example, a campus near here has total set at a number that NO sorority on campus has reached, thus every sorority -- even the "top tier" groups -- has to focus their energy on COB year-round. That shouldn't be happening.)

The "release figures specialist" is a mathematician, and there is a software program that now calculates release percentages and quota ranges for you. The specialists are trained so that you have someone to call when you don't understand what the heck the numbers are saying, or something like that. DeltaBetaBaby, I'm sure you could volunteer your services or asked to be trained since you have the math background. You'd then be able to help advise a campus near you if they needed it (I'm assuming you're an alum and not undergraduate).

While I'm not totally defending NPC (I think some of the rules are wacko too), I do think that they have given campuses tools to make recruitment unique to them. The new recruitment styles are PERFECT to customize recruitment to a particular campus. NPC has also stated that total should be evaluated yearly in order to better monitor what's going on with the groups. The problem is that people are scared to death to change. If you start evaluating total, you have sorority alums and advisors freaking out because OMG!!!! a stinkin' number might change!! Numbers don't tell the whole story, and it's OK to lower total if a campus enrollment has lowered significantly.

When my campus did Partially Structured this past Spring (as "Formal" recruitment...deferred for Freshmen), the only invite party we had was Pref night...we had no quota...heck, we didn't have Pref cards or Bid Matching!!!! That wasn't working on my campus, so the groups voted to change. The PNMs came into my office one by one on Bid Day, and were presented with the bids they had received and we're asked to choose which one they wanted to accept. Once the recruitment week started, most of the sorority women flipped out when they realized there wasn't going to be a quota, but change is uncomfortable. The end result...in the past using quota, only 15-20 women were placed between 3 chapters on Bid Day (this is the first opportunity that freshman can join, remember). This year, we placed 34....AND colonized a new group the week after that. I only had 2 girls torn as to which group to join when they got their bids. How did my smallest chapter do? They took the most girls, and wound up within 4 of total (the other groups were 1 and 2 away from total).

Looking back, if we would have had any more PNMs during recruitment, someone would have gone over total, and we may have had to look at a quota. Don't know. Maybe last semester was a fluke...maybe the recruitment style actually helped. But we weren't afraid to try, and that's the point. Heck, if that hadn't worked, I was about to suggest a "fraternity style" recruitment for the girls (which here amounts to nothing more than a week of COR style events)!!

Now, do I suggest that the huge schools immediately go to Partially Structured? No...formal structured works (for the most part).

Bottom line...if it's not working for you, try something different. I think most NPC groups and most campuses are simply afraid to try something different. That goes for expansion as well...if you've got only one group struggling, go ahead and make plans for expansion for a year or two out. Tell that chapter they've got everyone on their side to help them grow (and MEAN IT!) during that time so the system can be as strong as possible in order to support the new colony. Then, it's up to them to take action and figure out what they need to do differently. **The total abolishment of any sort of dirty rushing techniques MUST go along with this. You can't be talking out of both sides of your mouth.

[/ramble]

PsychTau

And now I'm going to keep talking...
 

I just read Barbara's post about FSU and how some of the chapters had to cut 50% of the PNMs on the first round.

What would happen if you had several days of parties BEFORE cuts were made? PNMs and sisters would have more than 30 minutes with each other before making decisions, and those groups not considered "top tier" (however a PNM defines it) would have more time to make an impression...and a better chance at winning some PNMs over because there's more time to "get real" (face it...we all know that some PNMs go back to some chapters based on looks and appearances of either the members or the physical house in the beginning of recruitment). I also believe that it will help PNMs settle in and figure out how to make the right decision for themselves, knowing they've got a few days before they make the first one.

I also think that PNMs aren't always sure of HOW to choose a sorority to join until later in the week. The PNMs cut on the first night on not a whole lot of info, and I'm sure we could find lots and lots of stories (if they are willing to share) about PNMs who figured out later in the week what were the best choices for them and subsequently wished they could start recruitment over in order to "not waste time" on those houses that ultimately aren't for them.

I also wished that PNMs did their homework/research BEFORE recruitment to learn as much as possible about the National Organization....much like the NPHC aspirants do. On the flip side, I wished NPC groups sold (and consistently provided) the National values/alumnae/lifelong experiences as well as the NPHC groups do. There are some areas where alumnae are super active in giving back to the community and obviously living the XYZ life, and there are some areas where it's just a potluck dinner now and then.

OK...I'll shut up now.

PsychTau

A vicious circle has developed over the past 40+ years: larger quotas and higher totals led to larger chapter houses, which led to larger quotas and higher totals in order to pay for those houses.

I wish that NPC had gone for more chapters. That is, instead of 14 chapters with a possible total of 150, which perhaps 11 would reach easily while two would have to push through the year and the third would constantly struggle to exceed 50, another struggling at 50, there would be 26 chapters of 55.
Maybe there would even be more than 26 NPC groups: locals or multi-culturals could participate on a more level field.

It's never going to happen, but if I were Queen of the World . . .